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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Turnabout occurrence in decks from the last year
Latest Decks as Commander
1 week ago
2 weeks ago
I did quite a bit of playtesting, was very happy with Flux Channeler, I'm really thinking hard on adding into my deck. With Mizzix of the Izmagnus in play, a Gamble for a Reiterate (or Electrodominance) get you 2 Experience and then I cast Electrodominance for (+ 2 Experience) gets you to 4 Experience then Reiterate for (+4 Experience). Initiating off a Desperate Ritual or something same result. So a win-con (assuming you have already Drawn/Muddle the Mixture/Spellseeker/Mystical Tutor the Electrodominance).
The lands were a little bit lean, but I think it's because your still 15 cards over, so skewing the testing a little bit.
You could cut Dualcaster Mage / Twinflame / Imperial Recruiter / Vedalken AEthermage since you have Bonus Round combos as a secondary win-con. (Primary being Reiterate + Electrodominance or Turnabout/Finisher).
Also have Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter too. Could add a Runic Repetition combo line too since you already have Mystic Retrieval so only 1 card). I like enjoy the Dualcaster Mage line though because it's only with 1 Experience and a Mizzix of the Izmagnus to copy.
After I got my Intuition from boxing day sale I put Enter the Infinite in my deck, I personally didn't like it, so I took it back out lol, but I get why it's in there! Instead I'm using these tutor win-lines with Intuition: Firemind's Foresight + Past in Flames + Mizzix's Mastery or Turnabout + Past in Flames + Mystical TutorReiterate. I almost feel like Enter the Infinite need a Show and Tell/Omniscience lol, but can't tutor that Omniscience (similar to the Aetherflux Reservoir)
Fork pretty expensive compared to the other copies, could cut that if you don't have one for budget, and too many copy spells, BUT... a Ral, Storm Conduit + any two copy spells is a win, I respect that line too!
Trim 1 of the protection boots (not Lightning Greaves) maybe, you wouldn't want to accidently ever draw 2 and like devastating if you draw all 3. Hexproof > Shroud but Attach > Equip, situational call, would use both in the appropriate situation, like in response to removal Attach is key, especially if you can stack multiple attaches like Equip, opponent responds with removal, in response Attach as a game example.
Your pretty close, couple more cuts and your there. Im still testing T6-8, I had a T4 win with your deck playtesting. I had thought of a T1 and was going to add to my primer when I got to a PC, then I forgot it lol, have to think what it was, I know we have T1 potential.
3 weeks ago
Yeah Doublecast I don’t like, it’s a sorcery (yuk) can’t even integrate in while combining, Fork feels better. Twinning Staff good because your already focusing around Spell Copy synergy, doubt you’ll ever use it’s activated ability. Fury Storm good in a Spell Copy variant is RR with 2 Experience, if it’s copying itself like 3 times though something really going strange in the game lol that you’ve cast Mizz that much, so expect itself and 1 copy most of the time!
Gilded Lotus is ok with Dramatic Reversal if you can get it off a Seething Song or something. Mana Crypt not necessary at all in EDH, if you want to enter cEDH probably will need including the free counters, but you can be high power easily without them for sure!
I’m worried you’ll have hands with like 4 copy spells, but no spell to copy lol. Or like 3 draw X spells and nothing to build experience.
Tezzeret's Gambit I’ve enjoyed, gets me the Experience (2) that I need to start most Reiterate combos. Like a Turnabout puts one on the stack and an in response Reiterate puts the 4th as an example, plus can put a counterspell or something in my hand as well.
Looking good though!
3 weeks ago
EDHrec is also a good resource, it has an "expensive" filter now, but if you leave it unfiltered, can help to find some surprisingly good cards with a low $ value that people are playing. There is also a "cheap" filter.
EDH is really a fun format, I have 1 modern, 2 pioneer decks, 2 cEDH decks, 2 EDH decks, 4 $50 budget EDH, and 0 standard decks! I do play standard on Arena though (4 standard, 3 brawl).
In EDH, little damage like Guttersnipe puts out isn't usually that useful unless your adding into a combo, which it can a recursive Turnabout + Reiterate will kill, but it really lends itself to better payoffs like a Fall of the Titans, Comet Storm, Whispers of the Muse, Stroke of Genius type effects that also build your Experience. I run 8 creatures and 1 enchantment, which is also pretty high, If I wasn't running Dualcaster Mage + Twinflame I would also exclude Imperial Recruiter and Vedalken AEthermage reducing my count to 5. Probably 4/5 creatures / 1 planeswalker / 2/3 enchantments is probably the right mix though honestly if you can build within that framework.
I playtested your deck a bit Flux Channeler worked well, Inexorable Tide was a little to high CMC for me. The issue I had was that until Mizzix of the Izmagnus has generated an Experience I had nothing to propagate, so getting an early Experience will be important which means stuff like Desperate Ritual, High Tide, Pyretic Ritual, Seething Song mostly. Going to need some protection either 1 or 2 CMC counterspells (the 2 CMC ones are still reasonably priced, 0/1 are not). Lightning Greaves is an obvious one, that can be tutored with a Muddle the Mixture but it's getting expensive now too (wtf).
I also found with the propogate that I got up to 8 counters, which isn't really necessary, because honestly 3/4 counters allows you to go infinite with many things (like Reiterate). Niv-Mizzet, Parun looks to be a pain to cast, he's nice, but almost unplayable here.
This thing tested like molasses Empowered Autogenerator, I would avoid that, lots of cheap CMC2/3 mana accelrators, plus all the ones I listed above.
Once you decide on a payoff goal, i think you'll see the deck rounding out. Lots of easy cuts in the above list to get down to 120 cards, probably about 10 you need to add into the mix, so putting into a cut for 130 list.
3 weeks ago
Still a bit of a rough list, so difficult to make specific card recs but though I would share some experience. I bought the pre-built deck when it came out, and recently did an entire break-down and rebuilt.
Looks like you've got a focus around the proliferate synergies, so I would build around that as a start. The trouble I had was that there are so many (too many) possible combos you can use, and a few different strategies. I've never specifically seen proliferate (X, Wheel, Turns, Wizards) or what I play Storm (without really using storm cards).
Creatures don't build experience counters, so I would be strategic with the purpose of a creature. Ones with limited payoff like Thermo-Alchemist/Guttersnipe (what are you repeatedly casting to win with them, usually in Mizz is infinite mana which leverages a draw library or X spell payoff) or high cost Charmbreaker Devils/Melek, Izzet Paragon will hurt when drawn unless your utilizing for a specific purpose.
Aetherflux Reservoir is the right type of card, but it's tough to get in Izzet (). Whir of Invention/Intuition/Reshape/Etc. I found that if your building your storm count (it's usually drawing library or mana) so it's unnecessary. Similar finishers like Sphinx-Bone Wand have the same challenge, would prefer a Fall of the Titans or a Enter the Infinite in most cases. Ral, Storm Conduit has better payoff with similar function.
Your going to be quite slow with so many tapped lands, plus you have many turn 1 draw payoffs in blue (cantrips), so having T1/T2 mana up is key. Izzet Boilerworks can make infinite mana pretty easily, but outside of that see where you can trim. I'm not sure you need to many Cycling lands either, in Mizz, you generally want to play your lands, the tradeoff will be that early in the game your mana is coming in tapped, but later in the game you can cycle away bad land draws. If your going for mid-range over combo, you'll likely need much more removal/counter/sweepers, if your just want cast large spells, maybe Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge would be a better commander selection for the added tutors. Lands really to break the budget though, I understand, Steam Vents will be critical though, and Fiery Islet is ok priced still.
I like the Flux Channeler I've considered him so many times, because he can build your Experience so Mizzix of the Izmagnus can stay protected in the command zone, and have immediate impact (when played unprotected).
You have Bonus Round, could build some interaction with it, like Seething Song + Reiterate or Frantic Search + Narset's Reversal or Dramatic Reversal + Narset's Reversal, etc. Not sure if you've ever used Commander Spellbook but just enter Bonus Round, and click the , , to filter the list.
Not sure what the Sideboard cards are, using as a intermediary cut list?
I also playtested the Curious Homunculus Flip/Goblin Electromancer types, Baral, Chief of Compliance was good, I would avoid the others, most of the time, I would prefer them to be spells to build the Experience count while providing an ability as well (like draw).
I assume Trinket Mage/etc. are pulling in the mana rocks, but they are only useful if your at a mana/experience level to activate. Trophy Mage for Twinning Staff? Needs a Dramatic Reversal in that case.
Jace's Sanctum doesn't build experience count, it's high CMC for the same ability, I would avoid this type of ability at this cost.
Your 405 Avg CMC is pretty high, you'll have similar challenges that other mid-range has is some games your going to draw hands of cards you'll never be able to play, again depends on your playgroups, but you may find some games it feels like you "do nothing" before the game closes out. I would cut some high CMC cards, bring that down at least below CMC 3, utilize the high CMC cards for win, and try and make then instant/sorcery where you can to get the experience benefit.
I would pick a couple win cons like Bonus Round or Enter the Infinite or Beacon of Tomorrows of something more classic like a Fall of the Titans or Stroke of Genius and build a core around them, that will help you solidify a good 70 card core, then add your mana accelerators and cantrips around them, and bet your at 80 cards and might help make some cuts easy.
Feel free to comment me back, happy to look again once it's paired a bit, or assist with honing in if you have a clear Game-Winning vision that you want to go with?
Good start. +1.
1 month ago
GOG is a good point, instant speed untap for less mana might be a good replacement; I still don't think it's great, though it does have an Overrun-esque effect attached. I think Turnabout or Breaking Wave would be a good replacement.
3 months ago
Gamble and Intuition are a bit harder to recommend a 1x1 exchange of cards, as both of them would really like you to also run Underworld Breach (note that Intuition is already super busted on its own), so I'd suggest putting Breach in as well. I Suggest removing Thought Scour, Reality Spasm, and Pirate's Pillage. My reasoning for these choices is that I believe they are cards that don't really perform very well on the deck and can be taken out for this package. Pirate's Pillage nets you 1 mana when you have Mizzix out and that's very nice, but if you got Mizzix out with 3 counters already you're very much on your way to winning the game, while on other situations this card doensn't feel very nice, especially if it is countered. Reality Spasm also nets you mana, but you need Mizzix out with 3+ counters for that and if that's the case you can probably search your Turnabout. Thought Scour just wasn't doing enough for me, messing up a tutor now and then is nice, but most of the time I just wish I could have used this 1 mana for something else.
Underworld Breach wins you the game with Bonus Round and Frantic Search. Cast Bonus Round and then Frantic Search, with your floating mana cast Breach and the Frantic Search from the grave. Each cast will net you 1 mana and 1 extra card in the grave, envetually you'll find Reiterate and Seething Song, generate infinite mana returning Reiterate to your hand with buyback and mill everyone with Stroke of Genius or whatever. As p0megranates eloquently explains on the guide, once you get to this point winning the game is easy.
For Intuition you'll probably want to check the deck to see if there is a 3 card pile that wins you the game, as of right now I don't think so. But adding Mizzix's Mastery enables the following pile:Mizzix's Mastery, Past in Flames, Enter the Infinite.
If they give you Enter the Infinite, flashback Past in Flames, flashback Intuition searching Faithless Looting or Frantic Search or any discard outlet. Discard Enter the Infinite and flashback Mizzix's Mastery for Enter the Infinite.
4 months ago
ZendikariWol: By all means, there are certain decks that will love it. I was commenting that it acts as a backup to Isochron Scepter (albeit at the requirement for extra dorks/rocks) for the Scepter/Dramatic Reversal combo. It also allows you to use cards like Turnabout (assuming you have enough artifacts). And as DragonSliver9001 mentioned, Riku will probably love it (well, a typical 5-7 Riku deck at least).
The problem however (and part of the reason that people don't like the card - for your refernce DragonSliver9001) is that it falls prey to the multitool problem - it does a bunch of stuff, but none of it well and just ends up being bulky.
Don't get me wrong, I love mt leatherman as much as the next guy, but when I'm working on something specific, I will get the specific tool required. I feel like this card has the same kind of issue. I could run Lithoform Engine and could copy a creature spell of mine, but at 8 additional mana (assuming I'm playing and using it the same turn), or even at 4 additional mana, am I actually going to get enough bang for buck to warrant the card? And on top of that, if most of the creatures in my deck top out at 4-5 mana, how much have I slowed down the rest of my potentially last 2 turns just so I can make a second copy of Sun Titan for example? (who would be a good creature to copy).
And if I want to copy activated abilities, I can only do it once per turn without employing some sort of untap combo, so the activated ability has to be good enough to warrant paying 4 mana and then 2 additional mana, but not good enough that I could have just won the game with one activation of the ability anyway (e.g. Shaman of Forgotten Ways).
So on this, I think that Lithoform Engine just falls short on too many fronts because it tries to do too many things.