Lotus Field enters the battlefield tapped.
When Lotus Field enters the battlefield, sacrifice two lands.
: Add three mana of any one color.
|Have (2)||DudeMan1031 , Horizon97|
|Want (2)||Bakery300 , WindgraceEatsAss|
Printings View all
|Core Set 2020 (M20)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Lotus Field Discussion
2 days ago
Dealing with Damping Sphere before playing Lotus Field is true. Recently though I had a game against Eldrazi Tron where I had to get rid of Chalice of the Void and Relic of Progenitus on the same turn before really comboing off, but i did get it. So yeah that would be more tricky, it would probably just add an extra turn.
2 days ago
Well, another point is storm dosen't need a manabear to win. They can also fairly cast their rituals and a couple cantrips then Grapeshot-Remand-Grapeshot. It's harder to be sure, but it does mean that storm doesn't need the creatures around to win.
Being more vulnerable mid combo probably weakens T-storms control matchup, and it probably hurts more when Ponza destroys a land that could be sacrificed to Lotus Field. Damping Sphere forces you to deal with it before you can play Lotus Field, and Surgical Extraction/Lost Legacy are much better against this deck (you don't even nesecarily have to get Lotus Field, they rely pretty heavily on Psychic Puppetry).
psionictemplar: Yep! G-storm has a potential turn two win. It's pretty much Land, Land, Ritual, Manamorphose, Mana Bear, more rituals, Manamorphose, Gifts storm. It's pretty unlikley :) T-storm combos as early turn three (Land, Land, Tap both for flaoting mana, Lotus Field twiddle Lotus Field etc.) They for most intents and purposes have the same speed.
2 days ago
Daveslab2022 just because a deck has been good for decades doesn't mean a newer can't be better. I'm not favoring one over the other, just trying to see the legitimate reasons. For what you said, an old deck isn't better than a new deck just because it's old. Not saying you are necessarily wrong, just that that reason isn't very valid.
Also Lotus Field has hexproof and Gift's creatures don't. Additionally, there is lots of mainboard creature hate and not a lot of potential Lotus Field hate in other decks. Thoughts? Why would Twiddle Storm have bad draws and top decks, or at least significantly worse than those of Gifts Storm?
Flooremoji I like your point about the resistance to mid-combo counters. Getting Ideas Unbound countered does have potential to cripple everything, but it also may just delay the combo one more turn like with Gifts Storm, as there are often dead cards to be discarded. How do you think the possible increased vulnerability to counterspells compares with the reliance on creatures of Gifts Storm?
Hope this is a fun conversation haha.
2 days ago
Is your deck super interesting and fun? Sure, absolutely.
Is it better than a deck that’s been honed for literal decades? Absolutely not. No offense, but just... No.
I’m not saying your deck is bad at all, it’s just not at all on the same level as a deck that has been constantly switching between tier 1 and 2 for years, with it currently being T1.
You do make some interesting points, but you seem to be relying on Lotus Field to win, just as much as Gifts Storm relies on its creatures. That just sets you up for bad draws and tough top decks.
4 days ago
For the orbs?
Now we need a Derevi-style mana base that can play around the Orbs.
Since we will be abusing Derevi’s untap ability we should put in all of the lands we can muster that tap for 2+ mana, such as bounce lands: Azorius Chancery, Selesnya Sanctuary, Simic Growth Chamber, Lotus Field, and maybe even Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip if it fits your budget. You can take out the pain lands as they will not be so kind in Derevi. You can run less lands overall since theoretically you will end up with more lands in hand due to the bounce.
While we’re at it, let’s go ahead and slide Faeburrow Elder in there too...
Perfect. Now we have orbs AND a Derevi-style mana base that can play around them.
dingusdingo on Abzan
2 weeks ago
Cards to look at
Trinisphere - 3x of this will do everything you wanted Thalia to do, and more. This is the daddy of stax pieces, and it will frustrate tons of decks.
Collector Ouphe - Turn off equipment and tons of artifacts, 2/2 for , 2-3x and can easily go into your SB if you don't want to MB. Plays well alongside artifact based lock pieces like Static Orb or Trinisphere, look for triggered abilities or static abilities to build around the Ouphe
Gaddock Teeg - Shut off plenty of wincons and huge value cards, a nice 1-2x in this style of deck, and its a 2/2 for . This will usually turn off something in an opponent's deck, requires a bit of build around on your end.
Maralen of the Mornsong - Neat combo with Mindcensor/Arbiter and a great way to find your silver bullet hate cards you need, especially if you run them at 1x slots. You pretty much never want to play this without either Mindcensor or the Arbiter, so I'd look at 1-2x inclusion
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - Dunks on tons of utility dorks and creatures, and if you have a couple hatebears on the field you can punish their life total. Expensive to cast, solid choice at 1, maybe 2 for a deck.
Root Maze - This card pulls double duty against fetch lands, and will generally slow the game against any style of deck. A real nice card to look at for turn 1 plays, but multiples don't do anything for you. Good 3x include, but you will occasionally mulligan another hand when you see 2x of this.
Plow Under - Nasty card that can stall out your opponents for two turns. 2-3x if you want to grab this card, absolutely brutal alongside Trinisphere, best used alongside mana acceleration to hit this on turn 3 or 4.
Weathered Wayfarer - Can be a useful card in these types of builds if you want to investigate further into land based tech. Useful alongside the Ravnica bouncelands like Golgari Rot Farm to guarantee further usage. Useful with Manlands to guarantee beaters. Works well with Inventors' Fair if you have a decent amount of artifacts.
Torpor Orb - Everything has some flashy ETB stapled onto it for value these days. Backfires against Uro and the other titans (no sacrifice trigger), but great sideboard material. Peek Hushwing Gryff for a creature alternate.
Leyline of the Void - Nasty card that breaks tons of combos and tons of value
Hokori, Dust Drinker - Another alternate to Thalia that similarly attacks their mana base, tons of lands to get around it like Ravnica bouncelands or Lotus Field. Best at 1-2x, don't wish to see multiples in your hand ever.
Kataki, War's Wage - I don't recommend this guy as Collector Ouphe fills this niche wonderfully, but this is always an option if you have 2-3 equipments you want to run that the ouphe would shut off and don't mind paying the tax for them.
Authority of the Consuls - Works extremely well against aggro, slowing them and giving you small life gain to survive further. Multiples give multiple life triggers, so not totally wasted, good at 3x if you're interested.
Blind Obedience - Enters tapped is nice, the extort helps stabilize you to late game while getting in valuable life loss against your opponent. Multiples give multiple extort triggers, so you can go up to 4x rather easily if you'd like to.
Time of Need - Nice toolbox card if you want to run 1-2x of a handful of legendary creatures for this style of build. Look at Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Hokori, Dust Drinker, Kataki, War's Wage, and Gaddock Teeg. Gives consistency if you're trying to go for a silver bullet kind of build.
Chord of Calling - Lets you pull Aven Mindcensor from your library at instant speed, also gives Mindcensor something to do on the battlefield if you can't swing with it. Once again, powerful in silver bullet style builds.
Grave Pact - Big board control, heavy color weight cost. Targets neither the player nor the creature, so useful against hexproof/shroud and other hyper evasive creatures. Multiples work fully, but you aren't keeping hands with multiples of this in it probably.
Luminarch Ascension - Control or prison style wincon. Lots of these cards slow the game or shut off an opponents plan to win. This card can use the extra turns to come online, and becomes a hyper mana efficient threat when it does. Works very well when playing under adverse mana conditions, like Hokori, Dust Drinker or Smallpox. Your Aven Mindcensor can gain extra usage on turn 4-7 by chump blocking to power this bad boy on. Best in decks that want to slow the game heavily.
Smallpox - Nasty board control, another way to imitate the hate effect Thalia has on an opposing mana base while also hitting creatures in play and forcing a discard. Works best with cards that allow you to mitigate your own downsides, such as Bloodghast, Gravecrawler, Flagstones of Trokair, Ramunap Excavator. Works well with anything that has madness, works well as fuel for delve too. One of these after playing Luminarch Ascension can give it the perfect amount of space to turn on.
Liliana of the Veil - Whole lot of board control, whole lot of hand hate.
Pithing Needle - CMC answer to any planeswalker and tons of juicy cards that players want to resolve.
Fiend Artisan - Toolbox enabler and nasty wincon packed into one. A good choice for silver bullet style builds. The +1/+1 for creatures in the graveyard shouldn't be underestimated, it keeps the card as a live draw later in the game or with no creatures on the field. The hybrid costs help in 3 color mana base
Beastmaster Ascension - Put those bears to work. Works well on stalled out boards, but your bears have to survive the swings to turn this on. I personally don't like this as much as Luminarch Ascension but it is worth looking at as an option, especially if you have a lot of flyers or evasive creatures. Aven Mindcensor flys :)
Tendershoot Dryad - Expensive to cast, but getting a token each upkeep adds up fast. You will hit the cities blessing rather fast, and then it doesn't take too many 3/3 tokens swinging to end a game.
2 weeks ago
Personally I would recommend dropping a Grapeshot for a Brain Freeze, as you want to be able to turn your Merchant Scrolls into a wincon when going off, additionally Cunning Wish is a huge help, you can toss a sideboard copy of a lot of tutor targets, and get additional copies of them, Bonus Round can also be huge if you want an insane engine that works well if you go for a red splash.
Now for the Past in Flames build, Intuition and Gifts Ungiven and a bunch more support the build well, and can use a stand-alone Life from the Loam to get back a tutored Lotus Field as well as having side-ways synergy with the deck's fetchlands and Lonely Sandbars.
2 weeks ago
I mean, sort of, you forgot a ton of the rules, and randomly tossed in pet cards. 75 cards, not 70 as you stated, interrupts aren't cards anymore, I actually briefly mentioned AEther Snap separately, and you assumed that Chaplain's Blessing is useful, despite 0 lifegain synergies existing that I know of, outside of False Cure, which would theoretically be used with Beacon of Immortality, additionally Angel's Grace/Ad Nauseam will likely be a popular build, and so will Scapeshift lists.
I honestly don't think you meant to put Rakdos Charm as relevant, I mean, it hits graveyards, but Scavenger Grounds does it, is useful in other situations, and is colorless, and gives mana, and every deck can use it. Overrun wouldn't be competitive if we even did have creatures and Fog seems like you are completely kidding. There are no non token creatures, only bad token producers outside of lands and a few possibly useable builds as side wincons. Anger of the Gods is again, not a relevant card really either.
Similarly, Swords, Push and Path (Especially Path) are really bad cards in this format, where there are only tokens. Effects that are more versatile specifically and can hit lands, as each deck is effectively required to be based on those has to run them, and few decks really even use manlands, as they slow the list, and land destruction does it better.
Remember that Swan Song also will often be a worse Flusterstorm that just gets hit by Mental Misstep (This is a Misstep format, so the entirety of the format is based around it) and Veil of Summer. Due to Life from the Loam being the only real engine aside from flashback based cards, and the fact that ever single spell hits the yard upon resolution rather than the battlefield, and most people will see the graveyard as a resource outside of Loam too. The best abusers are Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, and Cling to Dust, which cleans up loams and acts as a draw engine for cheap black discard decks based on Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, etc. Then there is Mystic Sanctuary, which adds so much flame to the fire, as it layers with both Scapeshift and Life from the Loam builds.
That backbone, along with some control tech for the format (Force of Will, Force of Negation, Miscast, Echoing Truth, Cryptic Command, Archmage's Charm, etc.) made the Simic Land Control build you claim I made, and called "loam". I turned it for the meta game's adjustment to it after building the rest of the possibly abuseable archetypes.
One of these tests included tons of Ad Nauseam Storm builds, but it flopped with the Mental Missteps in the format. They can take the loss of some rituals going, or even trade them for their own missteps occasionally, but the fact that every half decent list ran 4 free counterspells just meant that wheel-based builds flopped too.
In fact the format is so aggressively focused on lands being engines, loam, Scapeshift, and the other land builds that the only reasonable combos, which were depths, that got crushed by Archmage's Charm and Cryptic Command in the Control builds, and most other lists packed enough Field of Ruins or Ghost Quarters to still be just fine.
Look, you didn't really read up on GoblinElectromancer's format, you misread what shadow63 said, as he never implicated that he solved the format, just said, quote: "So burn or mill or tokens?" And nothing else on it, and you seemingly tossed a ton of janky filler cards as your choices for powerhouse cards, using the same terminology I used to describe a completely separate group of cards, and then miscredited me on multiple points claiming random things I think everyone immediately knew as "breakthroughs."
Despite the 10+ hours straight I spent since the banlist of the format's release designing and using multiple geometric calculators (had to make one on my own for Loam calculations and 75 card opener testers), attempting to check which build had the most room to improve and grow, I landed on Simic/Bant Lands Control, and solved the format's boogeyman. Yes you still somehow claim the only two decks are yours and mine, despite me proposing over 8 decks and in this bringing up another I didn't feel the need to previously. There are many more than 2 decks, one of which being a worse version of a good deck.
P.S. for all people that want to try the format.
Don't assume the format is solved for good, just that a singular deck seems to be absolutely busted and will beat everything else we have come up with. Intuition depths is my current brainchild, working to take Dark Depths, Life from the Loam, and Thespian Stage, in a Sultai build optimized to cheaply interact while having a list almost entirely based on card advantage and disruption, a more tempo based build rather than just wincons and control like Simic/Bant.
If the shell just gets added to Simic/Bant, I won't be surprised. Surgical Extraction is currently the best anti-loam card I know of, with Extirpate and Cling to Dust being strong avenues the decks trying to counter Loam can use as well. Divert and Misdirection are incredibly powerful however and can be used against them, as they also hit all of the counter magic, burn, discard, etc. in the format.
The format is cool to tinker with but is mostly done currently. If a ban comes tinker around in it, it seems cool!
The Stifle -> Lotus Field -> arcane storm is super viable, and Sylvan Scrying, Crop Rotation and Past in Flames are all in the format, so try it. It doesn't work amazingly because of how much free countermagic is in the format, Flusterstorm, etc. but still, resolve a Veil of Summer in an opportune moment and go for it!