|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Ultimate Masters (UMA)||Common|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Common|
|Urza's Legacy (ULG)||Common|
Combos Browse all
Draw two cards, then discard two cards.
Untap up to three lands.
|Have (3)||, rockleemyhero , orzhov_is_relatively_okay819|
|Want (8)||Fiacho , telepaper , Zarathustra77 , rattlesnek , eyeofnothing , MVerheuvel , Zyrook , Xydroth|
Frantic Search Discussion
1 day ago
I would say maybe cutting Electrolyze , Fire / Ice , Fortune's Favor , Geistblast & Reverberate . Liliana of the Dark Realms seems out of place to be honest. I am not sure what you're budget is but you may also want to consider running Cyclonic Rift , Sensei's Divining Top and a not so expensive but better filter card Frantic Search . The has been a lot of discussion with the Bolas's Citadel + Sensei's Divining Top combo.
3 days ago
Okay lets break down the justifications you gave, because I still think they merit changing.
Choosing not to run Mishra's Workshop in a deck that combos and staxs with artifacts is just silly. The problem is far more with your deck building choices of running 20 artifacts in an artifact commander oriented deck than the card itself. I shouldn't have to explain the value of 3 extra mana going towards your paradox engine or a stax piece like trinisphere, but apparently I do. Getting to winning pieces faster is better, run it. You also have the luxury of a mulligan on hands when its dead, similar to how Gaea's Cradle is a great card but dead in some hands.
Seat of the Synod combos with Mox Opal Transmute Artifact Inventors' Fair Reshape Unwinding Clock and is pullable for X=0 from Tezzeret the Seeker or Whir of Invention , meaning you can ramp in mono blue. Also recoverable from GY with Academy Ruins . Meanwhile, it nonbos with Back to Basics . Do some cost/benefit analysis and come back to me on that one.
Expedition Map is tutor density, which is your single biggest problem. If you are in a creature heavy meta, it functions as Tabernacle #2, why would you not run it? The value engine with Academy Ruins is icing on the cake. It's also part of a tutor chain using Inventors' Fair which leads to winning lines. Calling it cute without realizing it gives you more consistency with another winning line that also grinds value is just ignorant. Similar to Seat of the Synod , look at your own cards before rejecting inclusions.
Legacy's Allure is 100% a bad card. Assuming you somehow land that on turn 1, it still isn't anywhere close to live until turn 3. Unless the opposing creature is already on the board turn 1, your opponent will remove it before they play whatever creature they need that you would steal anyways, and if the creature is on the board turn 1 you should remove it before turn 3 anyways. Many stax creatures are symmetrical, so stealing one does nothing because those decks are designed to work around the effects. Also Gitrog is a 6/6 so assuming turn 1 Allure it still won't be live until turn 7, at which point Gitrog has already won. You can make the argument for proliferate, but you aren't running any. Aether Spellbomb is faster, combos with your commander, can turn itself into a cantrip if there aren't good creature targets, synergizes with that giant list of cards I talked about with Seat of the Synod, and is less color intensive. If you really need another theft effect, Vedalken Shackles is significantly better and combos all the same ways.
Howling Mine grinds values in longer games. Even if you give your opponent 1 or 2 cards, if you end up drawing 6 or 7 cards from it you are getting a better advantage. It works better in a stax build over a combo build, but then that leads to my next point. If you're really scared run Blinkmoth Well
You should build this as a stax deck. Compare this to an Arcum Dagson deck. The reason that is able to be a fast combo deck is because it has a tutor in the command zone that leads to winning lines. Meanwhile, Urza generates mana and expensive card advantage from the command zone, which benefits you when games go longer. Why would anyone build this deck with these pieces when Arcum does the same thing but better? They are the same CMC, but Dagson is less color intensive so its easier to ramp into with mono blue.
Even if you are trying to run this as fast combo, you aren't making good choices. Why are you running Fact or Fiction and not Frantic Search ? Why is your counterspell density so high when you should be tutoring or drawing to win? 13 counterspells with the meme new Narset spell for 14? Why? The card advantage your deck generates isn't high enough to sustain a package that big. If you're trying to fast combo why are you focusing on playing defensive? You don't need that many counterspells to protect your own combo.
Why are you running Power Artifact but not Basalt Monolith ? Otherwise power artifact is literally a dead draw if Grim Monolith is gone or unavailable. It opens up more options to get infinite and win with Urza
Cut Future Sight . Focus on assembling infinite mana to use Urza as an outlet. Not a single cEDH list runs it for a reason, expensive and slow. If you have infinite mana to plow through your deck with Future Sight you can just do the same with Urza. Wasted slot.
Running Isochron Scepter Dramatic Reversal and Copy Artifact but you aren't running Winds of Rebuke . It has high value outside combo, and high value inside combo. Currently you only have one method of drawing deck outside Urza (Paradox + Voltaic Key + Sensei's Top), which means you are very liable to be hit with Meddling Mage or Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker or Cursed Totem , all of which see play and make your Jace and Labman into dead draws. You should also consider Blue Sun's Zenith for similar reasons, gives an outlet for infinite mana if Urza is turned off or unavailable.
5 days ago
helldanno Thanks for the response!
The consultation version of the deck tends to rely heavily on the Laboratory Maniac + Demonic Consultation or Tainted Pact plan. In this deck, consult is just an end all be all out to win. High Tide really amps up the storm plan because of the untap effects (example: Frantic Search ). On the consultation plan, if you would like to have a storm out, it would be more on the route of Paradox Engine + mana rocks. That being said, storming off that way would be more of your secondary win condition outside of Lab man and the new Jace, Wielder of Mysteries .
I've considered Narset, but have yet to own a Wheel of Fortune or a Timetwister . If you have access to those cards, wheel payoffs like Narset get a lot better. As for Bolas's Citadel , running Paradox Engine would be a necessity. Adding in a 6 cmc and another 5 cmc card would bring the curve of the deck up too high in my opinion. I may test this in the future by swapping out other high cmc cards such as Mind's Desire in order to keep the curve as painless as possible off of ad nauseum.
Thanks again and let me know if you have any more questions or concerns!
5 days ago
Thanks for checking out the primer.
As for your questions, let's address them separately.
A. "...since I can't afford timetwister and imperial seal, and am running underground river and mausoleum secrets as a replacement so far. Any other considerations that could do the job?"
<-- Twister and Imperial Seal are very powerful cards in their own right. The good news is that you can kind of get away with Mausoleum Secrets in place of Imperial Seal, but do be warned your Ad Nauseam may hurt you a little more due to the higher CMC.
Unfortunately, there's only 11 direct tutor cards in black (like Demonic Tutor) that are CMC 3 and less. And for that reason alone, they are that much sought after. Some of them are expensive, pricing over the $100 mark. (Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor are the big ones.) Imperial Seal does have a judge promo that's cheaper than the original, but that's still over $100.
As for Timetwister? That's where the problem comes in. There's no direct substitute for Twister other than maybe Day's Undoing on the outside end, and even then, I personally wouldn't run that as it both ends your turn and exiles itself upon resolution. You may have to run another cheap cantrip, like Windfall or Gush in the meantime, otherwise, I'd proxy Twister if your group allows for that.
B. "Also I'm fairly new to Doomsday in general and really only know how to crack a pile with variations of gush or night's whisper, which you don't have. What's your common line that you look for? I've had to cut it for now because I cant wrap my head around it."
--> Luckily, we have access to The Doomsday Primer to help us walk through your question here. Here's the URL for that primer:
SCORE: 144 | 70 COMMENTS | 69369 VIEWS | IN 112 FOLDERS
As for what this deck does with "DD", we have included one of many lines related to DD in the primer itself.
Here is our example from the primer...
Pile Cracker: Ponder
Yawgmoth's Will (modifier)
Play Ponder, pay . Draw Frantic Search.
Play Frantic Search, pay 2U, draw G./Probe and L.E.D.; dump 2 cards, untap 3 lands. (Free!)
Play L.E.D., then G. Probe, paying 2 life. On casting Git Gud Probe, Hold Priority and crack L.E.D. for Triple Black. Draw Yawgmoth's Will. (BBB in pool floating.)
Play YawgWin with Triple Black floating. Next, play L.E.D. from the yard.
Play Git Gud Probe, paying 2 life again. When you play G. Probe, Hold Priority Again, and then crack L.E.D. again, this time for Triple Blue. Draw Laboratory Maniac. (UUU floating in pool.)
Cast Laboratory Maniac from the Triple Blue off of L.E.D. (Zero mana in pool.)
Finally cast Ponder from the yard to win, spending one more , with Frantic Search in the yard for backup.
Total cost, post Doomsday:
2 blue, 4 life.
Hope that answers your questions.
5 days ago
Definitely needs a good chunk of more artifact ramp and the staple blue card draw. I would say at least 10-11 artifacts that tap for mana.
I would look to add Cyclonic Rift , Dig Through Time , Fact or Fiction , Impulse , Ponder , Preordain , Gitaxian Probe , Sensei's Divining Top , Dramatic Reversal , Frantic Search , Rhystic Study , Mystic Remora , High Tide in addition to more artifact ramp of your choosing.
Looks like a good amount of counter magic, but see how it goes. Maybe cut Arcane Denial if you feel its too much.
Looking at your discard outlets for the Library of Leng synergy I assume, you'll want some more artifact tutors as well.
If you're looking at this deck to be cutthroat and competitive, you should look to Chain Veil teferi and cEdh Fblthp. The staple draw, interaction, stax and tutors they run would also be good here with the addition of your extra turns/top deck combo lines.
Best of luck to you, looks like a cool deck with a lot of potential. Hope that's helpful.
6 days ago
Hey, saw your forum topic asking for help. If one of your first Commander decks well done.
Consider more cards that can help blue devotion, give you value when your creatures are unblockable or be upgrades for cards here? Budget cards ($4 or less each) to consider adding:
- Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir : counts for three devotion, flash in your creatures including Thassa and prevent your opponents from casting cards at instant speed.
- Tempest Djinn : counts for three devotion, flying and gets more power as you play more Islands.
- Bident of Thassa : draw a lot of cards with unblockable creatures or flying creatures.
- Mystic Remora : one of the best enchantments for repeatable draw in multiplayer Commander.
- Mirage Mirror : good with Willbreaker , repeatable source of targeting, target an opponent creature for 2 mana to steal it while also making Mirror a copy of that creature until EOT.
- Retreat to Coralhelm : good with Willbreaker, repeatable no mana cost source of targeting an opponent's creature on your turn as long as you can play a land.
- High Tide
- Frantic Search
- Blue Sun's Zenith
- Thada Adel, Acquisitor
- Surrakar Spellblade
- Silent Submersible
- Broodbirth Viper : draw with myriad.
- Curious Obsession
- Ophidian Eye
- Sower of Temptation
- Roil Elemental : counts for three devotion, steal an opponents creature just by playing a land.
If you like some of these suggestions I offer more help to make cuts. Good luck with your deck.
2 weeks ago
paulrafael7 If you Proteus Staff Fblthp with no other creatures in your library, you get you order your library however you want to and then draw two cards. The basic line from there is: draw Lion's Eye Diamond and Gitaxian Probe . Cast LED, cast Git Probe, crack LED with probe on the stack. Probe draws you Gush . You use the alternative cost on gush, and draw Frantic Search and Mana Crypt . Discard the lands you bounced for gush to draw two with FS, grabbing Dramatic Reversal and Isochron Scepter . Assuming you still had three lands, you should still have UUU floating. Use crypt mana to play the scepter, use UU to use it to untap the Staff, use your final U and mana crypt to proteus staff Fblthp again. Grab two more mana rocks, probably Mox Opal and Mana Vault . Now you have enough mana rocks to produce infinite mana with the dramatic scepter combo, and Fblthp+Proteus Staff draws your deck. At this point, you can win in several ways, but the cleanest is looping Stroke of Genius
2 weeks ago
Evolving Wilds placeholder for Bloodstained Mire
Swamp placeholder for Drowned Catacomb
Swamp placeholder for Polluted Delta
Island placeholder for Soldevi Excavations
Swiftwater Cliffs placeholder for Sulfur Falls
Island placeholder for Temple of Deceit
Island placeholder for Temple of Epiphany
Mountain placeholder for Temple of Malice
Izzet Charm placeholder for Hinder
Faithless Looting placeholder for Frantic Search
Kindred Dominance placeholder for Cyclonic Rift
Docent of Perfection Flip placeholder for Kolaghan's Command
Increasing Vengeance placeholder for Reiterate
Dualcaster Mage placeholder for Spell Crumple
Suffer the Past placeholder for Exsanguinate
Clone Legion placeholder for Insurrection
Jace's Ingenuity placeholder for Mind Grind
Memory Plunder placeholder for Torment of Hailfire
Dark Ritual placeholder for Tunnel Vision
Worn Powerstone placeholder for Vandalblast
Frantic Search occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.07%
U/R (Izzet): 0.79%
U/B/R (Grixis): 0.69%