Would Seedborn Muse Be Blue if It Were Printed, Today?

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Posted on Sept. 9, 2023, 4:49 p.m. by DemonDragonJ

In this post, Mark Rosewater said that Seedborn Muse would be blue and not green if it were printed, today, but I must respectfully disagree with him on that subject. I do admit that blue would have a card that untaps all artifacts during each player's untap step, because blue has a strong emphasis on artifacts, but I fully believe that green should remain the color of untapping creatures and lands, since green is the color of regrowth, rebirth, and rejuvenation, and, out of all the colors, it has the strongest emphasis on lands and is tied for white with having the strongest emphasis on creatures; by that logic, Prophet of Kruphix could have been mono-green if it did not grant flash to creature spells, but even that is flexible, given that Yeva, Nature's Herald does that and is mono-green.

What does everyone else say about this? Do you agree with Mark Rosewater that Seedborn Muse would be blue, rather than green, if it was printed, today?

legendofa says... #2

Green is good at untapping its creatures and lands. Blue can untap (and tap) anything, including creatures and lands. Green has two other cards that can untap any permanent, with Cacophodon and Emerald Charm. Blue has almost ten times as many.

Blue is best at untapping artifacts, and green the best at untapping lands, but blue is actually slightly better at untapping creatures (or at least has more cards with that effect), and it's not even close with untapping any permanent. I think Seedborn Muse would be fully appropriate in blue.

September 9, 2023 9:22 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #3

legendofa, I can understand blue tapping or untapping creatures, as that can be explained as mental manipulation, but I feel that blue's interaction with lands should be minimal, at best, since blue already has many other abilities.

September 10, 2023 7:45 p.m.

wallisface says... #4

DemonDragonJ i think you’re looking at this from the wrong direction. As legendofa memtioned blue has the capability to untap any permanent. Meanwhile, there are a bunch of permanent types which green should not be able to untap. This is why that card is better-suited to being Blue.

September 10, 2023 9:03 p.m.

plakjekaas says... #5

Untapping creatures is a very red thing to do as well, for extra combat phases and Act of Treason effects. I agree that would look weird on Seedborn Muse, but I think it's not right to say green focuses most on untapping creatures, since it's Seedborn Muse that makes people think that. If it was printed as blue the first time, we might be thinking of blue as the most untapping color.

But the best reason to say it might be blue, is because you're effectively taking the resources of an additional turn during each other player's turn. Extra turns are almost exclusively blue (save maybe the red ones that make you lose the game at the end of that turn). The only extra turn green can take is Seedtime, and that's even dependant on blue spells being cast. I suppose that makes the most sense to me for thinking Seedborn Muse should be blue.

The Muses were a cycle though, if Seedborn should be blue, what of Dreamborn Muse? That card is a lot more blue than green, in de X-born Muse cycle, Seedborn makes the most sense in green.

September 11, 2023 3:44 a.m.

legendofa says... #6

DemonDragonJ Tapping or untapping "target permanent" is most of blue's interactions with lands and mana in general. It has almost no ramp or mana acceleration, and what it does have is generally either from the early days, part of a cycle, or from Time Spiral block. It can return lands to hand with Boomerang-style effects, but that goes back to "target permanent" and is a temporary response. This effect also seems to be getting less frequent, with "return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand" effects becoming more frequent. There's no land destruction, a small number of land animators, and a very small number of land "type changers." So blue's interactions with lands is already pretty minimal (and getting smaller), and Seedborn Muse doesn't do anything blue can't already do.

plakjekaas I imagine if the Muse cycle was scrapped and remade as closely as possible, Dreamborn Muse would stay the blue one, and Seedborn Muse would be closer to "... untap all creatures and lands you control."

September 11, 2023 3:56 a.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #7

legendofa, what is the flavor explanation for blue being able to tap or untap lands? Also, Prophet of Kruphix is essentially what you mentioned for how Seedborn Muse would be handled, today.

September 12, 2023 10:09 p.m.

legendofa says... #8

Yeah, Prophet of Kruphix is kind of an honorary ______born Muse.

Blue's ability to manipulate lands is driven more by mechanics than flavor, I think. To give it a flavor justification, it's similar to black's use of corrupting the mana bond, with Contaminated Ground and similar. Instead of damaging the bond, blue makes it "tighter" or "looser." Another interpretation is as an extension of time magic, speeding up or slowing down the planeswalker's ability to use mana.

I don't have a great answer for this, aside from without this interaction, blue would be missing almost all interaction with lands. There might be a parallel with red's interaction with enchantments, but lands are much more integral to regular gameplay than enchantments, so every color deserves some way to manipulate them, and blue is still significantly in last place.

September 12, 2023 10:27 p.m.

plakjekaas says... #9

In pioneer there's a deck making good use of Hidden Strings and Pore Over the Pages to storm off with Lotus Field mana.

The thing they used to do with Turnabout and Frantic Search, or maybe even Time Spiral or Treachery, anything to untap Tolarian Academy for insane amounts of mana.

And Twiddle of course, can't forget that one.

That's in addition to the extra turn argument I tried making in my last post.

Blue untaps a LOT of lands, more with spells than, permanents, although Fatestitcher and Vizier of Tumbling Sands aren't new cards either.

September 13, 2023 4:09 a.m.

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