Combos Browse all Suggest
- Increasing Vengeance + Torment of Hailfire
- Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter + Torment of Hailfire
- Torment of Hailfire + Unbound Flourishing
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Torment of Hailfire
Repeat the following process X times. Each opponent loses 3 life unless that player sacrifices a nonland permanent or discards a card.
7 minutes ago
TypicalTimmy, As far as I can recall/find, Malfegor was never a 'Walker himself, however did work for/under Bolas and experimented with planeswalkers, however there is no mention of himself possessing one, or wanting one, as to my knowledge. So, with that being said, I'll complete the challenge, but from a "What if...." perspective.
Malfelgor, Desecrator of Shards
Legendary Planeswalker - Malfegor
Whenever you activate an ability of ~, create a 5/5 Red and Black Demon Dragon Creature Token with Flying.
-4: Destroy up to three target creatures. If those cards would be put into a graveyard, instead put a loyalty counter on ~, then exile that creature.
-X: ~ deals X damage to target Player or Planeswalker. That permanent's controller loses X life, sacrifices X non-land permanents, and discards X cards.
-8: Search your library for up to X Demon or Dragon Creatures where X is the total power of Demon and Dragon creatures you control and reveal them. Put those creatures onto the battlefield. Those creatures gain Haste and Dethrone until the end of the turn.
Instead of Malfegor taking up WITH Bolas, he instead decides to challenge him. His second minus is very similar to Torment of Hailfire, which could serve as an inspiration for Bolas himself to use it later.
So in case for those who weren't aware, almost all the sphinx on Esper, excluding Sharuum the Hegemon, where killed by Demon-Dragon here. Lets rectify that in this hypothetical scenario! Make another Legendary Esper Sphinx!
2 months ago
Hey man, just a heads up - Bond of Agony doesn't quite work here. For example let's say you pay 20 life with Blood Celebrant, activate Rowan, Scion of War's ability and cast Bond of Agony where X = 20. You'll still have to pay another 20 life as an additional cost. Not very good at all.
Also, have you considered Plunge into Darkness or Spoils of the Vault here? With cards like Torment of Hailfire & Crackle with Power in the mix, they're 1-card wincons here. Vampiric Tutor, Grim Tutor & Cruel Tutor also have some serious added benefit with this one.
3 months ago
This deck looks really cool! I really love how incredibly affordable your deck is. For a few more dollars you can add amazing improvements that will significantly improve your deck's power. There's two cards, however, that are a must:
First, Sunforger will cast ANY instant you run, allowing answers straight from your deck AND enables Vial Smasher the Fierce if used outside your turn. Path of Mettle Flip is a decent repellant, but only if you flip it. More likely it will be an inconsistent killer or chip damage, which will only antagonize your foes, and worse it doesn't synergize with either Partner. Sunforger also makes Akiri and Jor kadeen happy, and its versatility will serve you more accurately.
I recommend these replacements, which give big improvements:
- Mercadian Bazaar and Subterranean Hangar perform better than Dwarven Hold and Bottomless Vault, and are cheaper to boot!
- Terramorphic Expanse for 1 plains: better mana fixing means less mulligans. You only have 1 card that casts for W (Skullclamp), which makes Terra Expanse's versatility a superior pick.
- Clifftop Retreat for Battlefield Forge: you have nothing that requires glass.
- Isolated Chapel instead of Caves of Koilos: same as above.
- Molten Slagheap instead of Icatian Store: you still have enough plains.
- Conspiracy Theorist repaces Underworld Rage-Hound: Theorist give its 2nd option to most discard you make, can be buffed by Olivia, is cheaper to enable & is more durable than the Hound.
- Demonic Collusion or Increasing Ambition instead of Diabolic Tutor: the first synergizes with your discard theme & the second one gives more searches in a more flexible mana cost.
- Phyrexian Arena instead of Dark Tutelage. Unless your pod runs only wheel decks, Arena is far superior.
- Greasefang, Okiba Boss replaces Pyre Zombie (not enough synergy, too expensive*).
*First of all, Sun Titan and Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle will almost always better targets to reanimate. Second, compare Pyre Zombie to Torment of Hailfire: For 7BB (the cost of return/cast/sac), you'd get 7 instances of "Each opponent loses 3 life unless that player sacrifices a nonland permanent or discards a card". While Hailfire is a prohibitively expensive card, it still highlights how inefficient Pyre Zombie is without your reanimators. Considering the # of vehicles you run, Greasefang is much better.
6 months ago
Not sure it's a realistic add, but Chains of Mephistopheles is pretty hilarious with Oppression out, but if I was only going to run one I think I'd run Chains, it's very good at shrinking people's hands, and it's easier to recover from Oppression than Chains. Black effects that put a card directly into hand dodge this conveniently.
With Platinum Emperion out it'd be sweet to resolve an Ad Nauseam, it's not a 'pay life' effect so it works without life being lost, unlike Peer Into the Abyss this would let you 'draw' as many cards as you want and stop at any time. Obviously terrible if you don't have something like Emperion out, but it's an idea if you want some really crazy games.
It's a total pile of jank usually, but since you only run 1 non-Swamp, have you thought about throwing in Cabal Stronghold, as a 2nd Coffers?
I was hoping there was some reasonable way I could suggest Contamination, but other than as a one turn cycle mana denial effect it didn't seem to work, but I remembered Infernal Darkness also exists! Hopefully you can wait until you have a big mana effect out before casting it, but your deck seems very able to generate large volumes of mana needed to support Cumulative Upkeep for awhile, and most non-Black decks won't be doing very much with only B mana from lands.
Not sure how many I missed Profet93, but the Exquisite Blood combos seem to be a big thing in here. Obviously there is also creature damage, but there might not be enough support to pull that off. This seems like a deck that would get great mileage out of Exsanguinate and Torment of Hailfire, but with this many tutors and that much mana as is he should be able to assemble his combo quickly enough to be a valid deck. The Commander seems to be one of the oldest legal Mono-Black options, with the others in it's set being notoriously bad cards, Baron Sengir is probably the most playable of the Black Legends other than Ihsan. I always liked his Lord Soth vibe, especially since there was a couple books featuring Lord Soth in Ravenloft, where he got tangled up in his own demi-plane by crossing the Big Bad Vampire, Strahd.
7 months ago
You've got a deep removal suite in this deck, so I feel like Black Market could be really good in this list and contribute well to your specific gameplan. And I'm sure you've considered it but I still feel I have to mention Torment of Hailfire as a secondary wincon; your current wincon already enables a win from it without having to do anything different than you already are.
7 months ago
@Andramalech Thanks! This is just version 1.0 of this deck. I plan to add more dirtiness to it with some new cards like Cornered Market, but with that I'll have to change up my land base and remove some duplicates.
For some background, our playgroup is 8 people, and we typically have 4-6 people any given Sunday. We play a casual homebrew "budget" 2-headed or 3-headed format. We use vintage as our rules set, meaning we'll allow any cards, but we've had to self restrict cards like Scheming Symmetry and Torment of Hailfire, and make some rules on life loss. Most decks aren't those $4000 turn 1-2 win vintage decks. So a deck like this is really just meant to frustrate the other team, and to help my teammate(s) win. Thanks for the comments, and feel free to throw out any recommendations. :)
7 months ago
I play in a very casual meta, so I can afford to play dumb expensive flavorful cards. :)
Here are some modifications you can try to make the deck stronger if your meta is a bit more serious:
Take out some expensive and "timmy" cards. Suggestions: Emrakul, Myojin, Wondrous Crucible, Ovika, Gigantoplasm, Wildfire Devils. While being fun and flavorful, these are in my opinion not great cards in a more competitive setting.
Add more protection for Abaddon and more ways to enable his ability easily. Suggestions: Swiftfoot Boots, Bolt Bend, Logic Knot, Protection Racket, Loyal Subordinate, Court of Ambition. Abaddon is often a remove-on-sight commander so more protection could be necessary and relying on combat damage to enable him could be problematic in a more competitive setting.
You might need more/better control cards and finishers. My suggestion for another finisher would be Torment of Hailfire.
Hope some of this helps to adjust the deck for your meta. :)
7 months ago
I really like your manifest take on Jon. Consider Dulcet Sirens. It's a clever way to mitigate risk of having those horrible creatures for yourself. I'll definitely be adding Crawlspace and Endless Whispers to my list.
Suggested removals from deck Plague Reaver. While it's a nice card to give away, the turn you play it you'll have to sacrifice Jon Irenicus to Plague Reaver's trigger regardless of which order you put the abilities onto the stack. You'd rather not lose Jon.
Gisa, Glorious Resurrector. It's something you can't give away, which means it's good when you're ahead, but not great when you're behind,. Your mileage may vary, but I think getting something more immediately impactful on the board tends to be best.
Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker. You're not running a mill strategy, you'll only be filling the graveyard of dedicate graveyard decks.
Taniwha. I love this creature and totally understand running it for the memes, but phasing triggers before your upkeep, which means that when you give it away, it'll be phased out for the first turn under your opponent, so they'll keep their lands and you won't draw a card from Jon's ability. The turn cycle has to make two full rounds before Taniwha does anything.
Tergrid, God of Fright Flip. Unlike Sheoldred, Tergrid doesn't make the opponent do either of its effects. It's another creature you don't want to give away, and Jon makes cards unsacrificeable. It just won't trigger much unless you're against a sacrifice deck.
Ensnaring Bridge. The creatures you donate will often be quite big. Ensnaring bridge will prevent them from attacking your opponents and deny you card draw.
Assault Suit doesn't goad the creatures itself. Often they'll swing at you if possible.
No Mercy Jon just has better options for this slot. If you can replace a non-creature with a creature in this deck, you usually want to.
Grave Betrayal. That's 7 mana for a card that could ruin your game by forcing you to revive bad cards you do not want.
Dark Ritual. I'm uncertain what you're trying to ramp into so quickly that you would need this. Maybe I'm wrong.
AEtherize risks bouncing creatures attacking other opponents such as those you've goaded but want them to keep. Try replacing this with a more versatile effect like Reins of Power or a more aggressive effect in Illusionist's Gambit.
Damnation. Jon prefers sacrifice board wipes so that your opponents keep their shit creatures.
Overall I think you could run less counter-magic in favor of more proactive effects.
Cards to Consider Creatures Generally I want to focus on adding creatures that you can give away and then steal back later to win the game.
With Jon, you often want cheap evasive creatures to give out for early card draw with his ability. Right now you have 1 two-drop creature. Throwing in a Changeling Outcast or a Slither Blade can mean you can give a creature away for cheap and still hold up mana for other things. Slither blade wouldn't die to Heartless Summoning too.
In the two-drop slot, you can run creatures that are more defensive like Baleful Strix, or give you card draw like Sygg, River Cutthroat or just more powerful creatures like Flesh Reaver which is a goaded 6/6 that can deal 12 damage a turn or Wretched Anurid. Heck, you can even add a versatile two-drop in Dimir Infiltrator which can be given away in the early game or used as a tutor in the late-game.
In the three drop slot, I think your idea of adding Steel Golem is a great one to make sure the only creatures your opponent has are the ones you're giving them. It's a brutal card. Rotting Regisaur is a card you don't mind giving away early, and can take back later to win. Phyrexian Soulgorger can be donated to an opponent as a goaded 10/10. They won't have to pay the upkeep, but that's a great body to give someone as a political tool. Cephalid Facetaker is also worth consideration though I personally don't run it.
In the four-drop slot, like you mentioned, Grid Monitor is a proactive creature counter. Abyssal Persecutor can save you from death. Archfiend of the Dross is risky but fun (it comes back to your control after the opponent dies).
In the 5-drop slot, both of the evil-eye cards are absolute ALL STARS. They work so well every game I've drawn them. They can also replace some of your weaker defenses like No Mercy and Dissipation Field
As a sidenote, I also like Deep-Sea Kraken as an unblockable 8/8 that can win you the game with homeward path.
Removal I recommend running more sacrifice-based removal since it'll mean your opponents keep the crap you give them. Things like Tergrid's Shadow or Vona's Hunger or All is Dust (one of my favorites) or Killing Wave. I also prefer Toxic Deluge to some of your other removal since it goes through hexproof. Curse of the Swine is also an exile effect that can be selective and works really well. You can also run single-target removal like Reality Shift or Pongify if you'd rather instant speed interaction. Feed the Swarm is quality. If you really don't care about cruelty, you can run Torment of Hailfire, but that card is honestly always too boring for me to want in my decks.
Card Draw Jon has access to some great card draw that most decks can't take advantage of. Fateful Handoff is a card draw spell that also donates (though does not goad). Sygg, River Cutthroat works well with evasive threats you give away (though should not be donated). Verity Circle works great with Jon's ability since it donates the creature first, and then taps it down. Teferi's Ageless Insight allows you to double your draw triggers from Jon.
Equipment Remember that you can donate creatures while they're equipped and you still control the equipment so they can't re-equip it. Pact Weapon makes the attacking creature bigger, while ensuring you can't die, and will draw you another card whenever the donated creature attacks. Dowsing Dagger Flip works effectively on evasive creature to get you ramped. Vorpal Sword is a win condition on your unblockable evasive creatures.
Misc Graveyard removal is king. Throw in a Scavenger Grounds. My favorite card to run is Reality Shift. Make an Avenger of Zendikar spawn a dozen Wretched Anurids. It's not GREAT, but it is always funny. Cultural Exchange is a fun time too with all your manifest and shitty creatures.
That is all. Hope it was helpful.