Torment of Hailfire

Torment of Hailfire


Repeat the following process X times. Each opponent loses 3 life unless that player sacrifices a nonland permanent or discards a card.

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Torment of Hailfire Discussion

RambIe on Goodbye Golos, Hello Kess

2 days ago

You might be right.
Personally I think Lier looks better in deck and I'm alot more excited about lord of the Forsaken. Lier is just a way i can use Forsaken to pump 30 life into a can't be countered Torment of Hailfire

Abaques on Unbanning Biorhythm?

3 days ago

TypicalTimmy, I believe that there are degrees to game winning cards. I think the issue here is really the potential for out of nowhere wins where someone gets a bunch of mana and just wins by casting one card regardless of the rest of the boardstate.

I believe that both Worldfire, and to a slightly lighter degree, Biorhythm, can lead to those states. Worldfire doesn't really care about boardstate and Biorhythm is devastating to several deck archetypes.

You listed Omniscience as being more ban-worthy. I'd disagree in that Omniscience does require card draw to be effective. I have Omniscience in my Jodah deck and I've gotten it out on more then one occasion where it does very little because my hand is almost empty. It can also be interacted with on the field as opposed to requiring a counter-spell to stop.

Torment of Hailfire can certainly lead to some feel-bad losses, but I think its easier to end up in game states where Torment doesn't just end the game on the spot. Unlike Biorhythm it cares about all non-land permanents, making the number of decks that might have enough permanents to survive an X=8 scenario a lot higher. Lifegain decks might be able to just eat the loss. Again, there are just more states where an out of nowhere 10-mana Torment of Hailfire doesn't automatically win the game.

I do get what you're saying, I just think there are some shades of grey that do matter when people talk about some of these win conditions. As I've said before I could take or leave unbanning Worldfire or Biorhythm, but I do believe they are cards that are more likely to lead to un-fun games then most of the other 9-10 mana spells out there.

TypicalTimmy on Unbanning Biorhythm?

3 days ago

In truth, I think there is a stronger argument to be had to ban Omniscience, because being able to cast every card you've got for free is pretty busted. People can hem and haw all they want about how you need to draw your library and get it into play and blah blah blah, but when those same people complain that a green card does something arguably just as powerful, if not more so, then it isn't so much about the cards as it is the player.

Spells are allowed to be powerful. At 8+ mana, they should be game-winning cards. But when players are fine with Omniscience and Worldfire and Torment of Hailfire but get their jimmies rustled over Biorhythm, then it's no longer about wincons, it's about believing some colors should be superior and others inferior. And that's a toxic mindset to have.

If the RC basically says one color can't have an awesome, epic, powerful wincon but the rest can, THAT is the real problem.

TypicalTimmy on Unbanning Biorhythm?

3 days ago

brandonplaysmagic, I mean counter spells? Also naturally increasing the spells value via stax effects.

The way I see it, a player dumping 8 mana into a spell to dramatically tip the scales in their favor is no different than a player slowly setting up combo or stax pieces over several turns. Both are investments, but the former is an investment in the immediate and the latter is an investment in the future.

Ask yourself this, is Biorhythm any worse off than an = Torment of Hailfire? Or a Wave of Vitriol?

What about Ugin, the Spirit Dragon when someone plays a ton of enchantments or creature lords?

Singular cards being checks against entire archetypes already exist and function just fine. That's why I said I am not personally subscribed to this reasoning for the ban.

However, I can see that this would be the reason to sustain it. But if that "is" the reason, then we must logically explore other and similar cards and critique their place within the game as well.

Honestly, I truly feel that the RC have lost their way and have become just a bunch of children who get salty over a card and ban it so they don't have to see it ever again. I'm currently in the boat that the RC should be disbanded and WOTC takes over.

That being said, consider the following:

  • A player who is mono-green and just wants to play dumb creatures is shut out of the game entirely due to an Iona, Shield of Emeria. This promotes negative player experience.

  • A stax player spends 7 or 8 turns building an impenetrable wall of locks only to lose to Biorhythm because they have but 2 creatures on field.

The difference is Iona doesn't allow the green player to play the game, at all. The latter allows the Stax player to do their thing, then fault them for being an - ironically - glass cannon.

Therefore, it isn't about whether or not the card shuts down an entire deck: It's whether or not the deck can be played. Iona shuts down the ability to play the game. Biorhythm does not.

Endersword334 on Mazirek's Nut Sac

1 week ago

Epicurus I was looking and trying to think of anything that would be better but it's not better than Torment of Hailfire since it's so good late game. I was thinking possibly In Garruk's Wake in case you can't get enough ramp but I don't think this deck has that problem. Just something to consider I guess, since you know your deck better than I do.

Crow-Umbra on Triple Six, Five, Forked Tongue

3 weeks ago

babydaggers, I haven't really found the lack of boardwipes to be an issue in the games I have played with the deck so far. In one of the last games I played, I had Torment of Hailfire in my opening hand and was in a position to dump about 10ish mana into the X (treasures and Crypt Ghast both on board), but I held off on using it so as not to win too early when everyone else was having a good time. Definitely one of those "I my next turn I totally would have..." type games. As much as I wish I had used it, it did set up a pretty cool turn interaction where myself and 2 of my other friends pooled our resources to take out our other friend who threatened 2 different combo wins with his Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons deck. In that game, my saving graces were Tibalt's Trickery and Chaos Warp.

I've been kicking around the idea of replacing Exsanguinate with Dead of Winter. I do have a copy of Toxic Deluge in another deck, but I think that deck needs it more, and Dead of Winter could be some decent tech in this one. I like Exsanguinate and have both died to it and also prolonged some of my own games with it. If it came down to it, I'd rather cut Exsanguinate over Torment of Hailfire.

My meta is varied enough that someone is always packing a boardwipe, so I thought I could either A) steal one via theft effects or B) let someone else carry the responsibility of making that decision. Since my playgroup is mostly just my friends from college, I've learned that sometimes its better politically to let someone else carry the burden of decisions that might not be as popular with the rest of the table lol.

babydaggers on Triple Six, Five, Forked Tongue

3 weeks ago

After playing, have you found the lack of board wipes in the deck to be an issue? What about the big X mana finishers Exsanguinate and Torment of Hailfire, are they feeling like the closers you expected them to?

Brian-123 on Silvermen978

1 month ago

hey silverman if you do commander and since you play aggressive i highly recommend my commander elf swarm deck. I got to play it a tournament won 1st place with it and finished the game with 82 there was a massive re-hall for it cause i got board whipped 4X but recoverd so now the deck has 7 outside win conditions if you get board whipped, things like Torment of Hailfire Hurricane Grimoire of the Dead Strixhaven Stadium to help win the game better now..thats if your looking for commander this populates like crazy too

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