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Legality
| Format | Legality |
| 1v1 Commander | Legal |
| Archenemy | Legal |
| Block Constructed | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander / EDH | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Legacy | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Modern | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Planechase | Legal |
| Quest Magic | Legal |
| Vanguard | Legal |
| Vintage | Legal |
Nightmare Void
Sorcery
Target player reveals his or her hand. Choose a card from it. That player discards that card.
Dredge 2(If you would draw a card, instead you may put exactly two cards from the top of your library into your graveyard. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand. Otherwise, draw a card.)
Bazzul on
Belzenlok, Godo's Ugly Cousin
3 years ago
CyborgAeon you are indeed correct about the "go off in response" mechanic provided you have enough non-land non-creature cards in your hand (which is always true for the first go-off in response). However, there is small window where removal could be used if Skirge Familiar and Bone Miser enter the battlefield at different times (this happens in the first attempt). At this stage you must kill your own Skirge Familiar with Soul Spike (if the interruption exiles). In response, you can get enough mana to cast graveyard recursion: Ever After, Living Death
I do think Dread is still needed. Mainly because you are very often interrupted mid combo (by countermagic for example). You need a way to attempt to survive and combo off in the following turns. To do this you must have Skirge Familiar and Bone Miser in the graveyard/battlefield and have a card on top of your library. The eldrazi only help with the latter.
I would swap the following cards for your combo:
OUT (7 cards):
1x Cinderhaze Wretch 1x Endling 1x Lotus Guardian 1x Makeshift Mannequin 1x Necrotic Ooze 1x Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon 1x Syr Konrad, the Grim
IN (5 cards):
1x Bone Miser 1x Nightmare Void 1x Extra Shuffler 1x Ever After (extra attempt) 1x Living Death (extra attempt)
I really like your combo and definitely choosing it over the ooze combo is a matter of preference. I have to say that in my meta having a creature based win (second attempt) is very valuable because of the decks I'm used to play against. Also the instant speed win through Makeshift Mannequin has been handy at times.
Anyways I'm for sure gonna buy the extra cards and give it a try in my play group. I do think your combo deserves a mention in the description (or even another decklist). I'm a bit busy these days so it might take a while for me to add it. However, if you have time to make a playlist I could also mention it and link it in the description!
Thanks for the innovative approach!
Bazzul on
Belzenlok, Godo's Ugly Cousin
3 years ago
CyborgAeon Thank you for your post! It's indeed a very interesting idea... It's very similar to the The Gitrog Monster cEDH combo with dredge, I think the combo is better explained by paraphrasing the description from the Gitrog primer (https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gitrog-land-combo/)
With Bone Miser and a "discard outlet" (Skirge Familiar) on the battlefield and a Nightmare Void in our hand, we first discard two shufflers ( Kozilek, Butcher of Truth + Dread for example) to gain 2 black mana (Skirge Familiar). They are both shuffled into the deck. Then we discard Nightmare Void to the outlet to gain 1 black mana (Skirge Familiar). Nightmare Void hits the graveyard, causing Bone Miser's "Whenever you discard a noncreature, nonland card, draw a card." When this trigger resolves, we replace the draw with a dredge, getting Nightmare Void back to our hand and milling two cards in the process. If we run at least two shufflers ( Kozilek, Butcher of Truth + Dread for example) we are always guaranteed to have at least 2 cards on top of our deck, which allows the Dredge trigger to always to happen when we discard Nightmare Void. Thus, we can discard Nightmare Void infinite times through Skirge Familiar and gain infinite black mana. We can finish the game with any finisher (for example Syr Konrad, the Grim).
In other words, the win con becomes: Have both Skirge Familiar and Bone Miser on the field and Nightmare Void in our hand. In my experience playing this deck you rarely win the turn you cast Belz because you usually get interrupted (by countermagic for example). Thus, you always need a plan to try to combo off in the next turns… Here Living Death, Ever After and Twilight's Call can provide combo recursion.
Because you need a discard outlet (Skirge Familiar) you are not immune to Cursed Totem but you are indeed immune to Damping Matrix specifically. This is a small advantage over the Necroozy combo.
However, the main advantage from the Necrotic Ooze combo is that creature removal is virtually ineffective (because you can restart the loop on top of any interaction). This combo is vulnerable because when the Nightmare Void trigger is on the stack opponents can cast creature removal such as Path of Exile. This is the reason why I swapped it over the Mike-Trike combo.
I do like the fact it requires less cards and I will add the cards to the maybeboard, however I still think it’s better to run the Necrotic Ooze combo for it’s resilience (in spite of the extra damage taken for requiring more cards).
CyborgAeon on
Belzenlok, Godo's Ugly Cousin
3 years ago
Now this might not have occurred to you, but an alternative line to victory is:
1: belzenlok
2: unmask pitching phantasmagorion
3: pitch skirge familiar, any two black cards barring Nightmare Void & Bone Miser
4: cast hollow one, deep wood legate;
5: dread return skirge familiar
6: discard cards to add {b}{b}{b}{b}{b}
7: cast bone miser
8: discard Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre)
9: discard Nightmare Void endlessly for unbounded mana (always dredge thanks to bone miser)
10: cycle Razaketh's Rite/Death Pulse / Stir the Sands for unbounded card draw (if anybody knows of a similarly cyclable noncreature, nonland card without cycling to use in place of these that would work great too).
11: now with unbounded mana and your entire deck available to be cast - you can do anything you wish:
ulamog or Scour from Existence all their permanents,
make unbounded creatures (if you used stir the sands)
Play soul spike 10-billion times, etc.
This version needs: Bone miser, phantasmagorion, nightmare void, belz, dread return, skirge familiar, ulamog, phantasmagorion, deepwood legate, hollow one, unmask, a cyclable instant/sorcery
(12 cards)
Whereas the current combo needs:
Phantasmagorion, belz, dread return, skirge familiar, deepwood legate, hollow one, unmask, konrad, skittles, cinderhaze wretch, necrotic ooze, lotus guardian, dread, endling
(14 cards)
Not only is this 2 cards more efficient, you are able to perform this through more star pieces such as Damping Matrix, hexproof/otherwise troublesome stax that affects activated abilities.
This contains 4 cards outside of the original combo and can likely be reduced further with some ingenuity. Please let me know what you think @Bazzul
mal099 on
"Nascent Delirium"
4 years ago
Grisly Salvage
could be good, although you already have quite a few instants in your deck.
Dredge is always a nice and easy way to get things into your graveyard.
Dakmor Salvage
,
Darkblast
or
Nightmare Void
maybe?
Unearth and Retrace might also be good to get additional value out of your graveyard. Unfortunately, none of the Unearth creatures are spiders. But some Retrace spells might be nice, especially since they make it easier to get lands into your graveyard, too!
dummygolem on
John Ghave
4 years ago
Cards to remove if playing competitive and/or duels:
- Genesis - too slow
- Mitotic Slime - too slow
- Protean Hulk - too slow
- Trostani Discordant - defensive, non-combo
- Tithe Taker - defensive, non-combo
- Woodfall Primus - too slow, too general
- Diabolic Tutor - too slow, too general
- Nightmare Void - too narrow (slow control matches)
- Life from the Loam - too slow (slow control matches)
- Silence - too narrow, anti-control
- Krosan Grip - too narrow, multiplayer emergency tech
- Spear of Heliod - multiplayer tech
- Grave Pact - multiplayer tech
- Mimic Vat - multiplayer tech
- Sorin, Grim Nemesis - multiplayer tech
- Vivien, Champion of the Wilds - multiplayer tech
JoosetheMuice
on
Lazav, The Multiwin
5 years ago
I would say add:
Negate or Swan Song (probably the later, 1 mana to save lazav in a pinch is a big deal) Snuff Out as well for that free kill when tapped out. Fact or Fiction is a draw spell I like here as is Pull from Tomorrow
Stinkweed Imp Nightmare Void Dakmor Salvage all have dredge, which could serve you pretty well.
I also like Platinum Angel and Krav, the Unredeemed
I'd Cut:
Abyssal Persecutor for the angel, Laboratory Maniac not sure what it does in this deck, is it just to combo with Mirror-Mad Phantasm? if so cut them both. Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow.
A couple other things I don't love are Thief of Sanity, Phyrexian Soulgorger and Dream Eater
Polupus on
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind | EDH
6 years ago
I think even more mill might be good in here.
What do you think about Startled Awake Flip? In place of Dowsing Dagger Flip?
Maybe even some targeted discard like Nightmare Void?
Also if you're looking for something to cut for Clever Impersonator I think it would be a good choice to replace Body Double with it. It's cheaper and more versatile than that card.
Mirrorpool is another interesting land if you can squeeze it in. Why copy the best thing on the board when you can copy it twice? You may need more colorless mana sources and I can understand why it wouldn't warrant a shift in your mana base to include and extra clone effect.
Hope these ideas give you something to think about! The deck looks fun overall and clone strategies are my favorite in how much variety you can get from each game. +1