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@ThrunTheTroll628

Your points are absolutely valid and I can definitely understand why you'd believe that godo is a slower deck that shouldn't be considered as high-power as it is. Here I'll hopefully show reasonable counterpoints to your arguments.
Forgive me if I'm wrong (@otherGodoPlayers) but Godo is considered a 0 card combo, as all you need to have is mana. It's irrelevant what's in hand, or on board, as you require only 11 mana to win. Furthermore, there are combos that become 1-card and require 5 mana fewer to pull off.

A fantastic example is Panharmonicon . This card allows you to search for Hammer of Nazahn in addition to helm, meaning that godo enters, gains indestructible and equips for no additional cost. Panharmonicon is also replaced in this instance by any "copy" effect - ie Heat Shimmer , Twinflame etc. all allow you to pull off this same effect for significantly less mana.

If you look into the extensive amount of work, time and research that went into this brew, you'll find that many cEDH players ie gtoast99, insertcleverphrasehere have spent a lot of time refining builds to come up with an evenly stax & combo efficient build. Looking at some builds that are only ritual effects and combo pieces, I could understand you'd be convinced the deck has flaws. But it's been proven time and time again that the best pilots show how worthy the deck is of it's tiered placement.
When you look at cards like Treasonous Ogre you may think "well, I'll add a mana here or there", but you could - in a godo build, see it as a single card that ends the game, as you have a 0 card combo in the command zone.

Admittedly, when you begin reviewing cards such as Soulbright Flamekin I can understand that the mana investment may not seem strong enough. Nonetheless, with all the fast mana available - the deck consistently pressures wins from 1-2 cards required. Though ritualling to victory is still an option

Absolutely fairly - you've found the crux of the deck. A pilot needs this card to resolve, or it's all for naught. With that in mind, I believe most decks run the full suite of blue specific counters, some even using Burnout . This is not always enough, but comparatively, often charbelcher wins legacy tournaments, just because sometimes you luck out and your opponents don't open with Force of Will . For that reason, both decks are considered strong
Yes, you've got a great point. Godo folds to A LOT of stax cards, but similar to the above, it consistently wins before these are an issue.

This point could be summed up with the above, but it's relevant for me to mention that many decks have switched from some of the above stax pieces to combat Flash -hulk decks, as they're just as fast as godo, but have more interaction and a greater consistent speed. While Torpor Orb & friends are great, most people have cut it from lists, as it doesn't do enough to combat the more common threats.

TL;DR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26SblcKLQsM

May 17, 2019 9:33 a.m.

@the_unseen89, I like the idea behind the deck - azorius beats via lands. Though if you're looking to recommend this as a cEDH deck, I'd definitely recommend some more optimization, locks & combos to close out the game.

If the best win you have available is as you say - via a 10/10 inkmoth beats then you may want to look at refining the strategy. Some notable cards you could include: Reset , Call to Glory , Energy Arc , To Arms! ; these would allow you to effectively Time Walk your opponents, provided enough of your lands are animated.

With the aim to win/create a lock/use enough disruption by turn four, you definitely could look at Stasis , I'd recommend that in a cEDH environment you look into Mystic Remora and many other format staples. In the description this list features many links to cEDH decks - by viewing these and the descriptions/primers for cEDH decks you'll likely be able to get a stronger understanding as to the differences in play-style and why your deck would likely not be considered "high-power"

May 15, 2019 7:04 a.m.

Said on RazaBridge Combo...

#4

(Also a side note: check it out, the deck is 100% competitive xD - that bar is such a meme).

May 11, 2019 8:19 a.m.

Said on RazaBridge Combo...

#5

Lol. I think that gary looping is a cool idea, but we've no way to perform it enough (even with raza) to win. Ie: raza & gary & any reanimation enchantment sets our devotion to 6; repeating this 3 times gains us 54, but our opponents only lose 18. If there's ever printed a black version of Neheb, the Eternal it'd be sweet. But without a payoff the investment is too costly.

Priest has been crucial in the games I play him (often discarded early, reanimated for value). Giving the draw, pressure and mana that I need often. I'm considering adding in Bloodsoaked Champion as it's also a warrior for Mindblade Render - of which will likely be sneaking back into the deck, as the 2 mana recurrable phyrexian arena (that also draws in opponent's turns) is too good to pass up.

May 10, 2019 6:37 a.m.

Said on RazaBridge Combo...

#6

Hm! I see your strategy. See that's what I was thinking. Already a very good option that changes this from a fast-paced combo deck to a stronger, much mre grindy stax deck.

I'll be on the lookout for some spicy options to include, as I feel this deck would work better if we refined the combo package to the most efficient cards for it and played a greater number of staxables (especially reanimatable!)

May 9, 2019 6:58 p.m.

Cymorg if you're looking for the optimal vannifar list/lines, I'd recommend checking out https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/vannifar-evolution-101-competitive/#c3485341. Though I'm no Vannifar aficionado, these guys have it down. They've put in many hours of testing.

With that in mind, goconnor for your data to be most helpful, could you also add to your notes what you were up against? You mention an almost optimized teferi deck, so I'd assume it's just missing like 'nacle and transmute / something similar, but if those decks are all 'almost optimized' in that they're restrained by budget considerations or pet-cards etc. then please keep in mind that will have some sway in your data and the way that it's viewed.

May 9, 2019 8:45 a.m.

Said on RazaBridge Combo...

#8

As of late in other decks I've been testing out the use of forbidden tutors: Plunge into Darkness , Demonic Consultation , Tainted Pact (I also tested Spoils of the Vault as a meme - though it went surprisingly well). These tutors are all instant speed, with a massive payoff. The downside is that in a build like this - we couldn't use pact (the safest option), but we could test plunge. It's a safe scry 10 - draw 1 for 2 mana in my experience, and all too often there's exactly what you need, right on time.

In order to conserve as much life as possible, I'm thinking of shifting to snow-covered swamps & Scrying Sheets /another land that draws cards over the fetches - while it's nice to feel like we're deck-thinning this loss of several life per game is sometimes too much.

As a mono deck, with a fair few moving parts - the use of spoils / consultation is very narrow, as we'd be risking a lot, and we'd need 2/3 of our combo pieces in place before using these. Due to this, they'll not make the cut.

The updates to the deck for WAR have been added! It's only 5 card difference, but it's quite a substantial change. Based on the number of pieces required, I feel that this deck could shift towards a heavier stax-variant; the first card to shift out towards this was rain of filth. For a deck that plays a lot from the graveyard, it's not the end if our win gets countered. But if we sacrifice our lands to do so - it's game over. To counteract this, I've put in crucible - thanks to the number of cards that fuel our yard and Liliana's uptick, it'll really help to streamline gameplay with our plan in motion.

If you've got thoughts on the other adjustments made, I'd be glad to hear them! Side note: Chains + waste not is fantastic!

EasyPeezy thank you for taking the time to review the list - you make a compelling argument about the cedh meta. The current build has a very direct way to win, with a few lines. I'd be glad to test Aetherflux Reservoir , but as an artifact it is not recurrable, it provides life (a resource that is running out FAR too fast), but otherwise it feels suboptimal. In order to accomodate the current threats in the format, I'm looking into what can be used to potentially combat different meta-decks.

May 9, 2019 5:57 a.m.

Said on Yeva Draw-Grow...

#9

It really is quite funny to crush somebody's smug deluge by saving your board with GoG. I know it's risky if they aren't tapped out, as you're putting a combo piece in harm's way - nice one nonetheless.

May 8, 2019 11:04 a.m.

Said on Yeva Draw-Grow...

#10

Not that this is doable, and most definitely not a suggestion. But the only way I've been able to counter a deluge was by fetching craterhoof from Yisan to out-pump the board. Aside from that & a pump or two from GoG there's little to no answer to it in mono green.

May 8, 2019 9:43 a.m.

Said on RazaBridge Combo...

#11

I pitched the deck to a series of cedh players, who helped me to realise that this is a cool deck, but won't be pushing the upper bound of cedh any time soon. Similar to the "aggro decks struggle" argument, it's concluded that the lines necessary to facilitate a win require a lot to pull off. Primarily the lack of an a+b strategy. Ie: mikaeus + walking ballista also needs a sac outlet or a blood artist effect.

I'll be adding a brief to the description to say that this is currently not considered strong enough to be cedh viable (maybe in like a t2 pod, but it'll just fall to any hulk deck / pst etc.)

MediSyntax The manabase is a struggle to sac lands to lake of the dead at the moment. But a land that can answer leyline, rip AND grafdigger's cage? That's a solid yes.

After some deliberation Bitter Ordeal is in. It's a 3 card combo with our main engine and is interchangable with a lot of pieces. As praetor's grasp was best for hate before, it'll be replacing that F A S T.

It's likely that due to the gravehate that the format needs that we will be changing some of our value reanimation for reanimation that solves problem cards ie null rod / stony silence.

A lot of people are trying citadel, it seems neat, but I'd be reluctant to try it due to the heavy initial cost. Bontu is a consideration, for the mass draw potential, but as a legend it's holding him back. Liliana's triumph will be going in (too much value to pass up).

I've been glaring into the sun a lot - to the point that command the dreadhorde might be viable. Mostly due to the fact that we could return all of the pieces needed for a win on one card without the danger of sharing fun with your opponents (like living death).

May 8, 2019 9:28 a.m.

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