Whenever an opponent discards a card, that player loses 2 life.
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Liliana's Caress Discussion
2 days ago
Just had a quick look around for the card you are talking about, do you mean Blades of Velis Vel? If so then id totally use it had it been an aura but im not sure its worth putting it in the deck on the off chance I could make Sheoldred a minotaur for one turn.
Thanks for your comment and suggestions, it means a lot!
4 days ago
Hi, took a look at the deck and I think I see a few swaps:
Some cards to consider adding:
+Bojuka Bog Likely someone in your meta has a graveyard based deck, and this is a very low cost way to greatly damage them. Especially since you will be fueling them with all your discard. For that matter, adding Nihil Spellbomb or Relic of Progenitus could be wise too.
And a few things that might not be pulling their weight here:
-Otherworld Atlas This seems just too slow. Charging it once makes a Temple Bell that etb tapped and costs 4. Charging twice is a really slow Font of Mythos. Charging three times is...three turns of nothing. If there were a heavy proliferation theme, then maybe.
-Laboratory Maniac Are you decking yourself before opponents are dying? If you've gone through 99 cards, or even 80, the opponents should be at -40 life or less. They'll also be damaging each other too. In the unlikely event someone maintains positive life, you'll probably deck them before yourself anyway if they played any of their own card draw. If you still worry about it, Time Reversal and Day's Undoing can replace two of your other wheel effects.
-Omniscience This just isn't the deck for this card. Yes all your Howling Mines can refill you each turn, but pretty much nothing in your deck is card advantage, so you can't drop this and storm through your library or anything like that. At the point you hit 10 mana you can pretty much cast 3 spells + play a land each turn anyway, so Omniscience only has value after you have ten mana, and if you draw more than 1+(mana available/averageCMC) cards per turn. At every other time (so way too often) it's dead.
-Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker Sure he's powerful in a generic way, but he doesn't synergize with the deck, and I think he's next on the chopping block because of his cost.
-Magus of the Jar Having summoning sickness and costing five makes this questionable to me.
-Leyline of Anticipation Another generically powerful card, but you know what else is generically powerful? Signets.
5 days ago
I wouldn't necessarily call this a discard deck, since there isn't a lot of discarding happening on either side of the field. It's more like basic control combined with "they mill when you draw", in which case you should have both more card draw (a la Serum Visions, Remand, Baleful Strix and similar cards, and Chasm Skulker would probably fit really well here) and more basic mill (Glimpse the Unthinkable if you can afford it, but stuff like Pilfered Plans and Tome Scour also work really well).
6 days ago
Both of the above commenters are right. If you're not going to have a creature base, then you need to do everything in your power to prevent the opponent from having one as well. To that end, you have little means of doing so, and what you do have has way too high of a cost mana-wise. I would highly recommend that you have lower mana cost cards like Fatal Push, Mana Leak, Extirpate, and Inquisition of Kozilek. Removal, counterspells, and hand attack are three things that you definitely need for a successful B/U control deck, and you have very little of all three. Since you're solely relying on control to win the game, you will also need card draw to pull the cards you want. Serum Visions is the card that people tend to go for, but there are many other options (the same can be said for everything that I have mentioned here).
I notice that you have artifacts dedicated to limiting how much damage is done to you in combat. I ask you, why be damaged at all? Propaganda would help with that immensely. You also have two artifacts that boosts creatures... which you don't have. A better artifact would be something like Isochron Scepter, which you could use to continuously play removal or counter spells.
Finally, I notice that you don't really have a win condition. Skywise Teachings really isn't going to work out too much, especially if you don't have low-CMC cards to allow the cost to make the tokens. Unfortunately, since you're not using creatures you are limited on options. Here are some to consider:
- Discard, using cards like Liliana's Caress to deal direct life loss to the opponent.
- Mill (which I despise but it works).
- Lots of artifacts, ending with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas's Ultimate.
Stuff like that. It's really up to you.
Hope this helps!
1 week ago
sonnet666, thanks for the advice. Here's how I'll change my list, given your input.
- I'll swap out Anthem of Rakdos for Gratuitous Violence, you're right there, no contest.
- Grave Upheaval will be sticking in my list, mainly because I think the basic land cycling is how I'll quite often use it, and if I'm desperate to reanimate something, I'd rather I cast on my turn and the creature has haste. Put those two together on one card, overcosted though it is, and the modality is what has me sold.
- Dark Withering never actually made it to the previous cut, because I felt the same way about it as you. Terminate is already taking up that spot. So spot-on insight there.
- Once again, the modality on Kolaghan's Command is what has me sold and I've actually used all 4 modes in one commander game before.
- Library of Leng will be staying in my list, (I know this reason is so scrubby it's unreal) mainly because it negates the negative feeling of discarding a card I really wanted to play, my list doesn't feature much graveyard recursion.
- Larceny is just a smidge off curve for my list, so I'll not be adding it in, but it would probably go well in a different build.
- Megrim and Liliana's Caress are getting the axe, but Quest for the Nihil Stone is going to stay because it actually works well in the list. So, out come Megrim and Carress and in go your recommendations of Bottomless Pit and Bloodchief Ascension
- Finally, because of the theme that I'm trying for my list, I'm not putting cards like Phyrexian Arena or Geth's Grimoire in, but they would probably make the cut in someone else's list.
So yeah, thanks. Some pretty good suggestions. When they finally put Neheb, the Worthy in the cardlist here on TAPPEDOUT, I'll post my list on this thread.
1 week ago
DeckedGuru, While I don't think you're going in the wrong direction, you listed a lot of sup-par cards right there:
- Anthem of Rakdos, Gratuitous Violence is practically the same thing, but all the time.
- Grave Upheaval is a highly overpriced effect when Reanimate, Dance of the Dead, Animate Dead, Necromancy, Coffin Queen, Feldon of the Third Path, and Dread Return all exist, and Dread Return even functions from the graveyard.
- Dark Withering, just because discard is your theme doesn't mean you have to include mediocre removal spells just because they fit your theme. You don't see me running Irradiate in my artifact decks for the same reason. Dark Withering can basically only be cast when you can discard a card, making it a pseudo-sorcery, and is outclassed by other all around good removal in these colors, like Terminate, Tragic Slip, and Malicious Affliction.
- Kolaghan's Command, I know it's a beast in 60 card formats, but all of those modes are pretty useless in EDH, except the artifact removal, but that's outclassed by Shattering Spree, Vandalblast, and Goblin Welder.
- Library of Leng, capitalizing on the cards you're discarding being in the graveyard is a million times better than basically guaranteeing you're not going to draw any new cards.
- Pain Magnification, this one is actually pretty good, but this is a friendly reminder that Larceny exists and is amazing.
- Megrim, Liliana's Caress, and Quest for the Nihil Stone, unless you have a full set of Wheel of Fortune effects, these guys end up having way less of an impact than you'd think they do in a 40 life format. Same goes for The Rack. Bloodchief Ascension on the other hand, is typically strong enough to include anyway.
- Necrogen Mists, this one's also not bad, but you forgot all of its siblings: Bottomless Pit, Oppression, Stronghold Rats, and Creeping Dread.
As far as the hellbent theme goes, I wouldn't focus too much on it, since Neheb's effect isn't that great, and there are only two hellbent card worth including, which also aren't that great... Instead if you focus on just capitalizing on the cards you're throwing in the graveyard and stripping away your opponent's hands, then you can still draw lots of cards without being counter to your main strategy. Stuff like Geth's Grimoire and Phyrexian Arena can keep you flush while your opponents struggle to have things to play, and Mask of Memory fits really nicely here since our commander is low cost and is going to be attacking.
2 weeks ago
Using my own knowledge and EDHREC I've got a few ideas.
Under "Tribal" I looked at the most playable creatures in Minotaur tribal decks and came up with a fairly short list.
~ Ragemonger, Felhide Petrifier, Rageblood Shaman, Lord of Shatterskull Pass, Gorehorn Minotaurs, Kragma Warcaller, Oracle of Bones, Deathbellow Raider, Felhide Spiritbinder, Tahngarth, Talruum Hero, Taurean Mauler, Adaptive Automaton, Metallic Mimic; then new additions, Ahn-Crop Crasher and Cursed Minotaur; and finally if you want to lean into graveyard/discard synergy I'd go with Minotaur Explorer and Hurloon Shaman, and on top of those, if you're feeling really confident - Ruinous Minotaur.
Without a strong enough spread of creatures (unless some other good minotaurs besides Neheb get printed in Amonkhet), I'd recommend not going down the usual tribal route with cards like Door of Destinies and Coat of Arms, instead focus on what Neheb brings to the table. The clauses "As long as you have one or fewer cards in hand, Minotaurs you control get +2/+0." & "Whenever Neheb, the Worthy deals combat damage to a player, each player discards a card." show that this card wants you to be almost hellbent most of the time. A commander like Malfegor is a good place to start on this theme, giving us a pretty substantial list to choose from.
~ Malfegor himself, Avaricious Dragon, and Sire Of Insanity are probably as heavy as you want to go on non-minotaur creatures; Waste Not, Anthem of Rakdos, Gibbering Descent, Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace, Gamble, Grave Upheaval, Painful Quandary, Dark Withering, Kolaghan's Command, Call to the Netherworld, Dark Deal, Delirium Skeins, Behold the Beyond, Library of Leng, Pain Magnification, Megrim, Liliana's Caress, Quest for the Nihil Stone, Key to the City, and Necrogen Mists, all contribute to the discard theme. (If you want to use lands that end up in the graveyard Crucible of Worlds is definitely a great inclusion in the deck too).
We now want to keep Neheb from being blocked and/or killed by our opponents and get in for the damage we want him to, so I feel equipment are the way to go given our colors.
~ Sword of Feast and Famine does what we want here and more; Whispersilk Cloak, Swiftfoot Boots, Lightning Greaves, Loxodon Warhammer, Basilisk Collar, and Darksteel Plate keep Neheb untouchable, unblockable, or allow him to attack without fear of being blocked; functionally similar, the aforementioned Key to the City, whilst not an artifact, works as a discard engine and allowing Neheb to go unblocked, and in another vein a utility land like Rogue's Passage will probably come in handy.
Obviously you include EDH all-stars like Sol Ring, Sensei's Divining Top and Command Tower. Then all you should have to do is look at cards that you want in the deck from red and black that fit the theme or are just strong by themselves. Examples of strong stand-alone cards include Damnation, Terminate, Exquisite Blood, Stranglehold, etc.
2 weeks ago
For the discard theme, Liliana's Caress and Megrim are good for whittling down your opponents. Also I think you'd be fine cutting some of the vanilla minotaurs because they don't do much, except well.. be minotaurs.
For replacement cards, I'd recommend Dreadbore, Terminate, and Hero's Downfall (the latter also has a minotaur for flavor points). Also I'd recommend the land base to have more duals, Temple of the False God, Command Tower, Evolving Wilds, and Terramorphic Expanse. I'm pretty sure you are well-aware of the land base, however haha.