|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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Creature — Elf Druid
Tap: Add an amount of (Green) to your mana pool equal to Viridian Joiner's power.
Viridian Joiner Discussion
2 days ago
The core components of hardened scales are expensive because they don't have good replacements, but that doesn't mean you are out of luck.
The big secret to 'upgrade paths' is that its often cheaper to look at the expensive cards and see what decks you can build with them, then build an entire deck around the next bunch you get in rather than trying to keep running the same strategy.
If I was looking at starting with scales and foothills, I'd look at an Abzan Gavony Township / Karn's Bastion 'counters matter' deck- the golgari hydras list would be a good start for the kind of cards to look at- creatures that put counters on themselves. I feel that most of the hydras would not fare excellently in my current meta, so some scouting is advised.
However where you look should be different- cards recently in print but rotating out of standard are way cheaper, often to the point that modern archetypes are defined after a set rotates out of standard- as was the case with hardened scales. When combined with cards that 'didn't make the cut', or were one-ofs in nieche decks you get something pretty great.
A bunch of merfolk with a +1/+1 counter theme are rotating, and its worth testing sutai merfolk- I doubt it'll be great for you unless you are planning to build into full merfolk.
Marwyn, the Nurturer and Incubation Druid offer an interesting combo option with older cards like Viridian Joiner and Gyre Sage , that may become a playable archetype, and is notable because Umbral Mantle / Training Grounds /manland is already a thing.
I expect Vivien's Arkbow to retain some of its price as people realise how good it is in modern, which is neat as an artifact supporting the kind of midrange strategy you'd want to transition into an 'artifacts matter aggro' list.
Affinity tools like Springleaf Drum , Ornithopter , Signal Pest , Vault Skirge , Cranial Plating and Etched Champion are all still relatively cheap, Thoughtcast and Galvanic Blast and are likely playable in a more midrange strategy, even if that will likely leave you weak to all the affinity answers floating around.
All told, muck around with some decklists before going out and buying a bunch of cards- there is a lot out there which might work great, given tinkering time. If you want to play right away, jump in with the most budget list involving scales and constrictor you can find, then build out based on what you think is a good deal.
3 weeks ago
CyborgAeon: Yeah, Shaper is ridiculously good and has stumped me on multiple occasions. But yeah, I've crammed a lot of time into this deck to a point where you'd think it's solved, but it never is.
There's more to it than just that. I lack actual ways to buff Viridian Joiner . Generous Patron , Great Oak Guardian , and Umbral Mantle are the only ways to manipulate its power. Marwyn, the Nurturer benefits from those and off of every elf I play. Electrickery seems like a nuisance though, so I can understand why you'd be compelled to run it, but the one extra toughness for a narrower dork is detrimental to the strategy as a whole. My bigger problem is really Fire Covenant , which doesn't really care about toughness, but at least I can respond to it with an elf.
I can see how an ill-timed Fierce Empath could you put you off of the card, but I can assure you its downsides are greatly outweighed by its upsides. This isn't to say Vivien's Arkbow won't make it into the deck, I just haven't been able to narrow down what to actually take out for it, Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip flew on my radar because it's a 3 drop that doesn't do much early game and gives away information, but trust me, parting with this card would be a huge burden on my soul. I am currently working on the bow being a part of the deck, it just won't be replacing Fierce Empath .
Soren841: Don't be offended, bro. I wouldn't have anyone to constantly talk about this if it wasn't for you lol. You're the best and don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. :D
3 weeks ago
CyborgAeon: I honestly love taking everyones' suggestions as seriously as possible. Deliberation is usually a task I take upon myself and when I'm really stumped on a decision, I consult ShaperSavant. For the most part, I spitball with Soren841 as he's followed the deck's progress up until and including its current state and is also one of the more versed players on the subject matter (seen it in action as well). He constantly challenges the build, which drives me further to keep improving it.
I believe some suggestions fall flat because they haven't put in the hours I have into playing it, so it's up to me to explain my reasoning for card choices.
As for testing, it has its lulls where cards I want to see never show up, but that's just the nature of EDH. I almost never see Sylvan Library , but we know damn sure that cards hella good and never leaving.
Now, to address your suggestions:
Viridian Joiner : this is strictly worse than Marwyn, the Nurturer , as they cost the same and have the same base power, whereas Marwyn has a way of buffing her self. It's easy to buff with minor bounce effects like Wirewood Symbiote and unfortunately Viridian Joiner is stuck unless you play Umbral Mantle or Great Oak Guardian . Umbral Mantle being the reason to consider it makes it a very narrow pairing that's unlikely to happen as much as you'd want it since it's reliant on drawing into it. Only other card that works with it is Great Oak Guardian and only makes it worth it while looping. Last but not least, it's feasibly possible to make Marwyn, the Nurturer storm off at instant speed or go infinite with Staff of Domination .
Vitalize : This was a preference thing, since Yeva needs card advantage from everywhere it could possibly get it. Feel free to swap if your meta benefits from draught. Lately my internal struggle has actually been my want for Emerald Charm as it can even untap Gaea's Cradle and destroy problem enchantments at one mana, but I digress, Vitalize works as well as you'd expect it to with its lower cost and asymmetrical effect.
Fierce Empath : This card is unbelievably integral to the deck to date, I can't stress this enough. It's a pseudo outlet that's ridiculously flexible and it being a creature can easily start tutor chains. Ex: Woodland Bellower , Fierce Empath , Regal Force , or Great Oak Guardian . You can also lead with Fierce Empath into Woodland Bellower into any three drop you could possibly need to keep the ball rolling. Tutors on a body in this context are ridiculously strong and not to be disregarded. Also an elf
Vivien's Arkbow : Now, despite making Fierce Empath a non-option as a swap for the bow, that's not to say I'm currently wracking my brain on what to remove for it (looking like Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip, though not definite). Both Shaper and Soren have told me to consider it as well and in my opinion, it's a hell of a card, especially since it doesn't reveal and my curve is so low. I will be posting a HUGE update soon, with a new kill line and improvements with deep implications to the deck, however, testing is everything and I vowed to never post some update with arbitrary changes unless it changes the deck fundamentally for the better. Expect the bow in the deck eventually.
Ravenous Slime : Is only run against known flash hulk decks, if I'm blindsided, I insert it after since it's so narrow in every other situation.
Thank you so much for contributing to this discussion, as alway your feedback is appreciated.
3 weeks ago
To be fair, getting the opinion of ShaperSavant is like a note from the author of a book; whereas having comments from others can often feel lackluster in comparison.
Sorry to hear about your issues in testing; I had no idea how much Mana Crypt had shot up in price, so I've just got around to buying one and a few cards (like Yeva) to actually start putting this list together. Current adjustments:
Viridian Joiner as it's better with Umbral Mantle - I feel like giving it a shot.
Marwyn => [[Viridian Joiner]] Fierce empath => [[vivien's arkbow]] Benefactor's draught => [[vitalize]]
Vivien's Arkbow is repeatable 'tutor' effects that in the worst case scenario function as ramp, turning dead draws into gas.
Vitalize I know draught draws cards, but it also untaps opposing dorks and I've too many of these in my meta.
Ravenous Slime I believe edh is a singleton format, and the name 'llanowar elves' means there's two of them... more importantly: vs flash-hulk this is a necessity.
1 month ago
1 month ago
WhatevWorks: not sure what your point is? it doesn't change the facts of what i said. that sort of combo requires that you draw really well (by which i mean "get lucky") and likely leaves you with an empty hand and small boardstate when an opponent just Path to Exile 's your big creature because you didn't draw the one single copy of Whispersilk Cloak in the deck.
your biggest creature in the deck is a 2/1, your power buffs are all instants (meaning temporary), and you have zero sources of trample. trample or other evasion is absolutely mandatory if you're attempting to dump all your resources into one lethal shot. 1 single Whispersilk Cloak won't cut it, and you'll end up getting chump blocked by tokens. the deck folds hard to discard and counterspells.
your deck has no interaction, which means you have to be able to ensure a turn 4 win (at latest), while also contending with opposing interaction. if you don't draw your Marwyn, the Nurturer / Viridian Joiner , or if an opponent casts a turn 1 Thoughtseize and takes one of them, you lose.
1 month ago
PlatinumOne, the amount of mana generated by targeting Marwyn, the Nurturer or Viridian Joiner with two or three copies of Savage Surge / Aim High / Gift of Growth is more than enough on T3-4 to storm off with a Rishkar's Expertise or some such, then chain untap/buff spells and draw-based-on-power spells until Marwyn swings for lethal and you've got a Whispersilk Cloak in hand with 50 green mana floating. If an Elvish Archdruid list gets lucky, it might be able to land an Eldrazi titan by turn 4.
1 month ago
Hey. I made a deck that's trying to use Marwyn, the Nurturer or Viridian Joiner in conjunction with Gift of Growth and similar cards to make ridiculous amounts of mana and a gigantic creature, then win with that. It can pull off early wins (usually turn 3-4 when things go your way), but I'm looking to increase the consistency. Thanks!
Decklist: Santa's Revenge 2: The Return of Marwyn
Viridian Joiner occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.0%