|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander Anthology Vol. II (CM2)||Uncommon|
|Commander 2016 (C16)||Uncommon|
|Conspiracy: Take the Crown (CN2)||Uncommon|
|Duel Decks: Knights vs. Dragons (DDG)||Uncommon|
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Juniper Order Ranger
Creature — Human Knight
Whenever another creature enters the battlefield under your control, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature and a +1/+1 counter on Juniper Order Ranger.
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Juniper Order Ranger Discussion
1 week ago
Redundancy is what this deck is built on, so it wouldn't be a problem to add in additional ways to get the same combos. However I already have so many that can combo with Earthcraft that also function as combos elsewhere that I have a hard time justifying the token doublers.
Cathars' Crusade, Bloodspore Thrinax, Ivy Lane Denizen, and Juniper Order Ranger also combo with Earthcraft for infinite tokens, but they also combo with persist creatures while the token doublers don't.
Sigil Captain is one I like and used to be in the list at some point. I took him out to help with resiliency of other combos since I already had 4 or 5 others that did his job. I'd put him back in if I could rationalize a reason he would be better than something else I'm running.
Retribution of the Ancients is interesting. It would be good with infinite counters as long as I had the mana, but Deathspore Thallid seems to do that job better. Infinite saprolings to sacrifice to him boardwipes my opponents and gets around indestructible. Retribution does this, too, with infinite mana, but I have more combos that I can use Deathspore with since he only needs infinite tokens. Retribution needs infinite counters and mana.
3 weeks ago
3 weeks ago
TheErebos I still love the idea that your keeping the Praetors around and the sub-infect theme. I was actually going to say to re-add in Triumph of the Horde as I really do like that card.
For the +1/+1 theme here are some cards that I used to use:
Also I would add back in Reyhan, you can additionally add in the one drop mana dork since you are going for the more wide synergy. Cards like Elvish Mystic, Llanowar Elves, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch, Joraga Treespeaker, or Fyndhorn Elves.
Hopefully that helps!
1 month ago
Avacyn, Angel of Hope doesn't seem super on theme or really that useful. I mean, yeah, it's really good. But it's also 8 mana and for 8 mana I feel like you should be winning the game. Not just protecting your 1/1s or whatever you have out.
Pallid Mycoderm, Rot Shambler, Savage Thallid, Sporecrown Thallid, Sporemound, Sporesower Thallid, and Sporoloth Ancient. I think all of them are either overcosted for what they offer, or don't offer enough. I think the best out of these is Sporemound, but I'm not sure it's good enough. You don't really ramp all that hard, and you'll have so many 1/1s anyway that I don't think it'll matter if you get a couple extra. I think these could all be replaced by more 'value' oriented cards.
Verdant Force is simply overcosted. Remove.
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice is out of place. Populating a 1/1 for 3 mana and a tap is a bad feeling, and gaining 1 life from each is trivial and could be done with Suture Priest or any soul sister (and better too). Also Trostani's mana cost is steeper than it seems (from experience).
Fungal Plots is just kinda weak. I'm super against self-gy hate, and this is no exception. You're paying 4 mana and a card for a 1/1, and then you can maybe sac 2 more creatures for some life and a draw. There are much better options for card advantage AND tokens (I'll get into it later).
Intangible Virtue is out of place. An army of 2/2 vigilance's isn't amazing, especially because your saprolings WANT to die (to slimefoot and Blood Artist and others), so tapping to attack isn't an issue. You already have other, better, team buffs so I don't really think this fits.
Night Soil is just kinda meh. It's a tougher restriction than it seems (both from the same yard).
Along with this, I don't like Necrogenesis in general, but at least it gy-hates opponents and is something you can do if you have mana left up. An early cut if you still wanna cut some stuff, but fine to leave.
Primal Vigor can backfire hard. I don't think it's worth tbh. Also the mana cost is steep for something that doesn't do anything by itself.
True Conviction is just super out of place, and that mana cost is super rough. Absolutely cut. If you were gonna have a mana cost with WWW, it's gonna be Avacyn (but it's gonna be neither).
Verdant Embrace is just too costly for what it does and what you need. If it was like 3 mana and didn't give the +3/+3, that would work, but as is it's too costly and you'll almost certainly not get a lot of value from it because people will murder the creature it's on immediately.
Honestly, I've never liked Second Harvest. It's a terrible card if you're losing and if you cast it and win, you probably would've already won anyway. It seems like win-more to me. Most cards that do nothing on their own I think are kinda meh.
I have no idea how to feel about Vona's Hunger. I'd consider removing just because if you're using this to clear a board, they're gonna keep their best shit anyway, and this is pretty trash against other token decks. The mana cost and instant speed is a nice +, but I'm not sure it's enough here.
You have a lot of lands. I like running fewer lands (35) but having about ~10 sources of ramp. I'll try to figure some out as we progress.
Fungal Sprouting does nothing on it's own and I am having a tough time envisioning it being really useful. Getting 5 1/1s is great for Ghave, but for 4 mana and sorcery speed, I feel you could be doing more. It's fine for now, but consider it an early cut if needed.
Glare of Subdual. This is a tough one. On the one hand, tapping down the voltron player (Seth's cats or my dragons or Zac's Tuvasa) is super dope. On the other hand, tapping is not removal and it relies on you having a creature to spare to tap. It's also 4 mana. I'd probably remove. If it was 1WG, I'd think it was good.
I strongly recommend not having more than 8 enchantments. You have 16 right now and that's just too many without some heavy enchantment recursion.
Okay. We got through it boys. Let's go to our suggestions and recommendations. This next section will include cards in your maybe board that I think are good and should go to mainboard.
Anafenza, the Foremost, because who doesn't like incidental GY hate on an aggressively costed body. 3 mana for a 4/4 that GY hates is something that your opponents need to answer, and more often than not their removal will be worth more to them than Anafenza is worth to you.
Elenda, the Dusk Rose is a card I've always wanted to work and this might be it. Being able to sac a huge board and then herself seems like great value. The issue with Elenda is that she can be exiled, but your commander is a sac outlet which protects against that. I think she could be a powerhouse in this deck ESPECIALLY because her tokens have lifelink. Never underestimate lifelink on tokens.
Juniper Order Ranger is just gravy. 5 mana for a boi that gets progressively larger and boosts your board is something that needs to be answered to. This will either force a boardwipe or spot removal and honestly either a win for you.
Shalai, Voice of Plenty is good. Really good. I don't think it's bad to put it in this deck.
Retribution of the Ancients is super interesting and could be a powerhouse. I'm inclined to include it as instant speed removal that works on indestructible things at a minimum cost to yourself seems very good. Sure, you'll be using 3-5 counters each time, but ideally that won't be an issue since. Also it's at a mana cost price you just can't do better than.
Everything from maybeboard I didn't mention is a no.
End of Maybeboard Recommendations
Uhh, where's my babe Elspeth, Sun's Champion at?? 6 mana for either a conditional boardwipe that won't hit you that often, or for 3 token bois seems like a good deal. And if you manage to ult, you win. No one can stop a flying army of 3/3s.
Eldrazi Monument. We already talked about it but just wanna have it written down here.
Pir, Imaginative Rascal. Fucking gravy. Works with Ghave super well but also Elspeth and also your dudes who put spore counters on themselves. This is a must include. I'm kind of surprised he wasn't already in the list tbh.
Fecundity can be absolutely nutty. Sure, it helps your opponents, but it is very unlikely it'll help them more than it helps you. Also a may trigger so it won't hurt you if you don't want it to.
Dark Prophecy is also insane, tho the self damage could become hazardous. I'll recommend some things to combat this as the card is a powerhouse, even with the BBB mana cost. Remember, being at 5 life and winning is the same as being at 40 life and winning.
Loyal Guardian is a new card which could do work. Early cut, but I'll put it here if you need to fill out your creatures.
Heroic Intervention is the single best protection spell in green. It's basically a green Teferi's Protection for your turn and it cannot be overstated how good it is at the right time. It is the difference between "I win next turn" and "Man nice boardwipe, GG." And for 2 mana too. It's bonkers. Must include.
Cryptolith Rite is disgusting. You've played slivers so you know how good Gemhide is. This is too. I think this is a must.
Zulaport Cutthroat is nice redundancy for your combo win and also nice incidental lifegain (which helps counteract Dark Prophecy's life cost).
Forgotten Ancient is bonkers. Will always become a threat and require removal. It's just good.
Hangarback Walker is solid. Dump whatever mana you have into it, gives you something to do EoT, and you'll almost always get the death trigger since your commander is a sac outlet.
Scavenging Ooze. Graveyard hate is good, and incidental synergy with counter is even better. Just a super efficient card and usually comes something that needs to be removed sooner rather than later. Using the ability as an instant in response to a 'return from graveyard' spell is a joy.
Abzan Charm is good at any point of the game. Removal, counters, card advantage. Maybe the best charm out of all of them. Cannot be overstated. This is a must include.
You have no boardwipes. What the hell. You need at least 4 in almost every deck, but you will be fine with 3 here since you have Elspeth and Dictate of Erebos. I recommend Day of Judgment, Merciless Eviction (best boardwipe ever printed ever), Austere Command (wipe everything but your 0 CMC tokens and you'll usually open a board up for swings) and Living Death. More on Living Death below.
Living Death is a pet card of mine. Mostly because of how bonkers it is. 5 mana for a boardwipe that makes everyone sac their hexproof/indestructible creatures, and then get's you everything you need back. Ideally you'll have something like Aura Shards or Dictate out as you cast this to thin your opponents board afterwards. Also, with Anafenza, Necrogenesis, Scavenging Ooze and Bojuka Bog, you should be getting more value back than anyone else consistently.
Dread Return is good. 4 mana to bring something back is the going rate and saccing 3 creatures to bring something back is double upside since more often than not saccing creatures is good. With Blood Artist that gains you 3 life and someone loses 3, with Fecundity or Dark Prophecy, you just drew 3 cards for FREE. Stupid.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is always always always a powerhouse. Clears the board and puts you absurdly far ahead in terms of board presence. If you have the money, put it in.
I know you're not huge on tutors, but Razaketh, the Foulblooded and Sidisi, Undead Vizier are good. Can help find answers or just combo pieces to close out a long game. If you only want one, put Razaketh because at the end of the day, an 8/8 flample for 8 is good.
Carrion Feeder is good because instant speed sac outlets with incidental counter value is good. Sac a creature, get a counter, remove counter to get another creature is good. Essentially, with Fecundity/Dark Prophecy, Ghave, and Carrion Feeder out, they read "Pay 1 mana, draw a card" and that's good. Add in Blood Artist and it's even better, and add in Pir and Ashnod's and you win. 5/6 card combos are still combos. Also Carrion is a 1 mana sac outlet and that's really good.
Requiem Angel is a card I've always wanted to use but never found the place. This might be it, chief. Essentially doubling your token count for ability activations and sac triggers, plus turns your measly 1/1 saps into 1/1 fliers, which is a huge boost.
I'd remove Aura Mutation and replace it with both Putrefy and Mortify. The reason is that I often find myself holding onto Aura Mutation hoping to get good value from it, but oftentimes I should just use it on a 2 drop enchantment like Cryptolith Rite or something. Mortify and Putrify also double as modal cards, making them never a dead card if you draw them.
You need more ramp. There is no way around it. But you need more. Cultivate, Kodamas, Nature's Lore, Farseek, etc etc. No mana rocks besides Sol Ring. You're green, use it. You could also run things like Primal Druid that give value when they die, since this is a sacrifice deck. I'd scryfall "dies/enter search library land battlefield" and choose your favorite.
Mindless Automaton just seems fun. Depending on how easy it is to put counters on stuff, this may work. Early cut for sure.
Thats all I got for now. I'll comment again if I think of more.
2 months ago
First of all, having a Savannah and only one fetch seems criminal. As for actual suggestions, I'll start with cards in the Maybeboard that I don't think belong there.
- As a creature, Soul Warden or Soul's Attendant seem like better fits than Ajani's Welcome.
- Juniper Order Ranger feels a bit extra tbh. And beyond that, I think this deck would rather drop the lord after the tokens are in play. Marshal's Anthem is a lord effect I keep trying to fit into decks but never make work. Maybe this deck could use it?
- It could just be bias against my meta, but Carnage Tyrant doesn't seem great. Around here there tend to be more wraths than targeted removal, and as far as "Can't Be Countered", Prowling Serpopard is way better.
- Unless the instant speediness is important, I'd consider Spine of Ish Sah over Scour from Existence. It gives random upside if it ever dies or gets bounced! You've also just got a lot of incidental hate cards in here, but I'm not sure how much Thalia, Heretic Cathar or Melira, Sylvok Outcast are actually beneficial to the deck. I think your protection cards ought to do a good enough job.
As for your mainboard, it looks sweet!
If your deck gets up to enough mana, you could also consider replacing Beast Within with Terastodon, but then you lose the instant speediness. Wolfbriar Elemental also feels like a card that would enjoy getting into the deck if it can easily make lots of (green) mana, but maybe that's too many token generators?
There's also a couple solid white value creatures that appear to be missing from the list, namely Sun Titan and Karmic Guide, although I can't actually decide if Sun Titan is good here. You've got a lot of expensive cards in here...
2 months ago
For additional token generation we would recommend Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Kazandu Tuskcaller, Imperious Perfect, Avenger of Zendikar, Ant Queen, Living Hive, Beacon of Creation and Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.
Aside from these things, we would also recommend Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Krosan Grip and/or Aura Shards for some more control. Maybe some additional draw options like Lifecrafter's Bestiary, Slate of Ancestry and Beacon of Creation.
For any further ideas, feel free to check out our Rhys deck. Good luck and have fun.
Mrs. & Mr. NV_1980
2 months ago
Hi there! Ghave is one of my favorite Commanders, being my second deck in Commander six years ago, and I've loved it ever since. For perspective's sake, here's my Ghave deck for reference: Ghave: Baby Makin' and Alimony
So what I'm immediately noticing is that you're not running cards like Ashnod's Altar, Phyrexian Altar, and Earthcraft, which leads me to believe you do not want to be an infinite combo deck, but instead a fair Ghave token deck. This is good, and I have a bunch of suggestions for that.
Juniper Order Ranger is one of the best counters sources you're not running. Paying 1 to get a token = 2 counters placed on creatures you control, which is quite good. He's literally better than Enduring Scalelord in this deck, for example, as he lets you pump out additional tokens without requiring a third card to use as a source of counters, or requiring additional mana to use to put counters on something to trigger Scalelord.
In similar vein as the above, Ivy Lane Denizen is great too. She doesn't produce an extra counter unlike JOR, but she does continue to let you pay 1 mana to obtain 1 token, which is absurdly efficient.
To go along with the above, you run so many creatures and will be able to produce so many tokens you should look into running Cryptolith Rite, Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip, etc.. These cards are quite strong because if you control Ghave and any source of counters- from Cathars' Crusade to Ivy Lane Denizen, or even Bloodspore Thrinax with just 1 counter on him, they let you produce tokens additively. For example: 5 mana becomes 5 tokens, but then the next turn you will have 10 mana, which lets you generate 10 more. Then you have 20 mana, so you make 20 more. You should now control enough power in tokens on field to kill any player who doesn't have blockers, but you can make 40 tokens just with Cryptolith Rite or Growing Rites of Itlimoc flipped. They're great cards in this kind of deck and I highly recommending trading for a copy of each.
The largest weakness of fair token decks is sweepers, so running things like Eldrazi Monument and Heroic Intervention are quite important. They're a little more expensive than most other cards I've recommended so far but I do strongly suggest you get copies of each because it shores up one of your largest weaknesses (plus flying, more damage, and indestructible is super powerful in a token deck).
Cards I recommend removing:
Ajani and Congregate. I don't like cards whose largest purpose is just to gain you life if they cost more than 1 mana. Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant and Essence Warden will gain you more life than these spells ever could, notwithstanding Zulaport Cutthroat is a great way to hold the table hostage because, if you generate enough tokens, people can't cast Wrath of God spells without killing themselves. Ajani isn't as bad about the 'only life gain' thing like Congregate, but Congregate needs to go. It doesn't impact the board state and doesn't help you win- winning with a life total of 20 versus 100 doesn't matter because you still won.
I am not big on High Sentinels of Arashin, at least not over something like Ivy Lane Denizen who helps you make more tokens rather than is just one big, nonevasive creature.
Siege Rhino is super meh in a 40 life format, sad to say. He was strong in Modern because 3 life was more than 1/7th of the opposing life total, and then he could attack to bring an opponent down to 1/3rd, but in Commander his trigger is less than 1/13th of the opponent's life totals on the trigger, and even if he attacks and gets through that's still a little more than a sixth of their life total- but you still have at least 74 life to chew through of two more opponents as well (you go from having to deplete 20 life to needing to deplete 120 life, is what I'm saying, and that's why Rhino isn't great in this format). You also don't have any way to abuse his trigger to repeatedly gain life or deal life loss, so I think you'd be fine with cutting it for something that could help you make more tokens or would impact your opponents negatively should they board wipe (Zulaport Cutthroat).
Anyway, hope these recommendations help. Good luck and have fun!
2 months ago
So, just to give some context from where my advice stems: I've played Ghave for 6 years now and it's easily one of my favorite decks. I play full-on combo Ghave, but I used to play fair token overrun Ghave. My deck list is here if you need a reference for any combos I mention today: Ghave: Baby Makin' and Alimony
Ghave works as a fantastic token generation engine, where 1 mana = 1 token. You don't normally get that much benefit out of your token producers, with basically all of the saproling makers take so many turns that they're too slow to overrun efficiently. Things like Mazirek are great if you have doublers down, but Cathars' Crusade is missing and it requires you jump through fewer hoops- make 1 token, make everything but 1 creature on your side of the board huge. Cathars' Crusade is one of the best cards in the archetype, I strongly suggest running it.
In similar vein, Ivy Lane Denizen, Bloodspore Thrinax, Juniper Order Ranger, among other cards, also go infinite with Ashnod's Altar for infinite mana and tokens (you make 1 token, get a new counter. Pay another to remove that counter, make a new token, obtaining another counter. Sac the first creature to get your 2 mana back and have a new token. Repeat this for infinite colorless mana, and because you have infinite colorless mana and 1 mana = 1 token, you now have infinite tokens), not to mention the aforementioned cards are just good in the deck because they let you generate tokens more efficiently.
Undying creatures are also phenomenal at producing Saproling tokens with Ghave. While not saprolings themselves, you'll be able to produce tons of them efficiently using cards like Young Wolf, Butcher Ghoul, Geralf's Messenger, and the like. Again, Ashnod's Altar + any of those + Ghave = infinite tokens too (you sac the Undying creature for mana in this loop, then pay 1 of the 2 mana you get to remove the counter from it, resetting the Undying creature).
For fair Ghave, there's nothing better than Seedborn Muse. Ivorytusk Fortress isn't bad, but Muse untaps all of your lands which lets you make more tokens on opponents turns, effectively becoming a Gaea's Cradle if you have a counters source on field (because if you have 5 mana, you obtain 15 extra tokens if you have 3 opponents. Not to mention you can cast instants on opposing turns as well).
Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip should probably be in here as well. It's not a bad card at all, and it and Cryptolith Rite can help you make absurd amounts of mana so you can go from 10 tokens to 20, then to 40, then to 80 in just a couple of turns without even needing Doubling Season.
I recommend cutting the following for some of the above cards:
Life and Limb is just worse Cryptolith Rite, now, in that it lets your opponents board wipe your lands. Cryptolith lets your tokens tap for any color of mana at half the mana cost, so it seems like a reasonable swap without the downside of losing lands to a Wrath of God.
Dark Heart of the Wood isn't great, especially without Life and Limb. Cutting that for Growing Rites or any of the aforementioned cards would help a lot. I don't feel it necessary to run all of Gravity Well, Raking Canopy, and Downdraft. I'd at least cut Downdraft. Druidic Satchel isn't the greatest, and practically any card above will make tokens better.
Flash Foliage should probably be Beast Within or Anguished Unmaking, as blocking a big creature once isn't that great, but being able to remove literally any troublesome permanent (and 3/3 beasts aren't a big deal) or being able to exile a troublesome nonland permanent is pretty awesome.
Anyway, hope this helps. I tried not recommending you cut any of your spore counter guys because they're probably your theme, but the above cards will definitely help you along quite well, so try to squeeze them in where you can (and small confession: I have a bit of a soft spot for Thallid, Sporesower Thallid, and Sporoloth Ancient. One of my first Magic decks was a spore counters deck using all of those guys from Time Spiral block + Opposition to lock my opponents down, lol). On the subject of opposition, though, maybe Glare of Subdual might be a card you like to swap out Flash Foliage for? If you regularly have the most creatures at the table, just tap everybody down so no one gets to attack but you. That's always fun.
Anyway, I'm out, have fun!