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Planeswalker — Elspeth
+2: You gain 1 life for each creature you control.
-2: Put three 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield.
-5: Destroy all other permanents except for lands and tokens.
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Elspeth Tirel Discussion
Brylon on Shalai EDH
2 weeks ago
shalai edh update number 2:
out :: 21
Azusa, Lost but Seeking is very expensive. I am very aware she is awesome, so I've added her to a maybeboard if I decide I want to further upgrade this deck. Flickerwisp and Glimmerpoint Stag are removed because I am largely removing flicker effects because the strat is not powerful enough in this deck.
Originally I wanted to take advantage of Shalai, Voice of Plenty's hexproof for planeswalkers, but I didn't make great picks on planeswalkers, and ultimately Karn, Scion of Urza, and Elspeth, Sun's Champion were really the only ones worth it. I can't reasonably afford Karn for this deck, so he has been moved to the maybeboard.
Flicker effects have largely been removed.
Flicker effects have largely been removed. In this case being sorcery speed makes them less valuable, because they cannot be used for avoidance. Fumigate is removed in order to make way for better mass removal.
It's just too expensive. Shalai, Voice of Plenty does the same thing, and I can just cast her from the command zone.
These are less valuable in a deck that is only 2 colors.
The first 4 of these are just bad, and the last 2 are being removed to make way for more plains.
in :: 21
Powerful spot removal that puts the card where the player can't get it.
Path of Ancestry is good for tribal. Reliquary Tower gives me no max hand size. Homeward Path protects me from effects that take my creatures. Emeria, The Sky Ruin lets me cheat back in dead creatures, and the Plains are added to support Emeria.
Cards for later
expensive, but maybe at some point:
Brylon on Shalai EDH
3 weeks ago
Making some updates to address some of the concerns I have with the early version of this deck:
(no need to have an extreme mana base with this early of a deck version. Expect mana base to continue to change)
(no ETB )
(no ETB, cost reduction on turn 5 not powerful enough)
(expensive value negated by real ramp)
(too expensive for a 2 color deck)
1 month ago
Elspeth, Death's Champion
Legendary Planeswalker - Elspeth
+1Target creature gets +3/+3 and gains Lifelink and Deathtouch until end of turn.
-2Create three 1/1 Black and white Zombie Soldier creature tokens with Deathtouch and Lifelink.
-7You get an emblem with "Creatures you control get +2/+2 and gain Undying."
2 months ago
Suggestions for fun stuff:
- Catastrophe is a super-fun board wipe, especially if you want to go the land destruction/threatened land destruction route. Play of the Game is also maybe a good idea in a multiplayer setting.
- To protect yourself from mean opponents who hate fun, I could suggest Spirit of the Hearth, Leyline of Sanctity, Seht's Tiger...
- More O-Ring effects could be fun, so maybe Admonition Angel could be worth a look.
- Also, in lieu of Moat, maybe Magus of the Moat and, in that same vein, Magus of the Tabernacle could help to ensure that people don't mess with you (too much).
- In terms of Planeswalkers, the only one I can think of that might be useful is Elspeth Tirel, largely because she resets the board quite a bit and provides protection (plus, she's not the huge target that Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Elspeth, Sun's Champion are).
2 months ago
@ForTheOldFrame: Thanks for your upvote and your detailed comment and sorry for posting so late. I was busy the last days and didn't find the time to reply.
I will try to answer to all your suggestion but I myself aren't an expert in EDH too. So maybe I am wrong with some choices and many cards depend on teh playgroup you are playing:
- Mentor of the Meek: Is already on my maybe list and goes in the deck as soon as I can get it.
- Concerted Effort: Is already on my maybe list and goes in the deck as soon as I can get it. But I will probably not build the deck around it. So Lost Auramancers, Plea for Guidance and Windbrisk Heights are out. Especially Windbrisk Heights as my rebels normally only attack once with three creatures or more.
- Land drops are an issue so Journeyer's Kite and Thawing Glaciers are great choice and I will try them out.
- Temple of the False God: I tend to have it on my starting hand nearly every time I play it in a deck. So I am not a big fan of this card. But with Journeyer's Kite and Thawing Glaciers it is maybe worth a try.
- Sword of the Animist: Mostly I need my rebels to control the table and don't have a chance to attack the first rounds.
- Rebels mitigate the lack of good carddraw in white by tutoring for your creatures. Normally I tend to keep 4-6 cards in my hand and use my mana to tutor for rebels or recast Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero so I don't need Jayemdae Tome, Armistice or Slate of Ancestry. Especially the later I think is not a good option with rebels. If you have enough rebels on the field you normally search for Mirror Entity and attack with your army.
- Light of Day synergices very well with Scuttlemutt and Distorting Lens so I will try it out.
- Cataclysm: Great suggestion and I will try to get one ;-)
- Fated Retribution is not the only instant wrath in white. There is also Rout. And I think if I add Cataclysm I am fine with wrath effects.
- Catastrophe and Armageddon are good option, but as I mostly play casual I leave them out.
- Cessation is better than Pacifism but at the moment Pacifism is only a placeholder and will get out of the deck. Presumable for an other suggestion form you.
- My playgroup mostly plays with older cards and so we decided to ban all planeswalkers. So Elspeth Tirel and Gideon of the Trials are out for me.
- Angel's Trumpet is a good card but not in my build, I think it is possibly in rebels but you have to build the deck differently.
- The runes cycle: Great suggestion. As rebels have already good answers against red and black I will try to find room for the three other runes.
- Icatian Store: I don't like the old storage land and I think that Fountain of Cho is strictly better. But normally I need my mana every turn and not a lot of mana in one turn. The only exception is Mirror Entity so I think I don't need it. But maybe I will try it out some day.
- Kongming, "Sleeping Dragon": For mone white Benalish Marshal is better and I will get one for this deck.
- Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is great but to expensive (money) for me.
- Pariah and Pariah's Shield: I think you are right and the runes are better suited for the deck.
So thanks again for your comment and now I have the problem to find cards to take out for your suggestions ;-)
2 months ago
Continuing from before...
- I like your choice of Wraths. If you're reconsidering, think about Cataclysm -- one of the strongest of them all, and from Exodus! -- or the game's only instant-speed Wrath, Fated Retribution. Also consider Catastrophe or Armageddon to knock out enemy lands, once you've got a good board state or you think there's a Genesis Wave coming. (12 lands is the magic number.) Land destruction is dishonorable, but Zacama's more dishonorable than that; I'm trying to teach myself that if the card isn't banned, it's not dishonorable enough to not use.
- Cessation is a lot harder to kill than Pacifism.
- If you're willing to use planeswalkers, Elspeth Tirel is a reusable Wrath/Disk; the other two Elspeths give you chump-attackers for Sword of the Animist. Gideon of the Trials gives you a Gideon Worship effect, and there are other playable Gideons. OTOH, planeswalkers aren't exactly Rebel-era cards -- I can understand not wanting to use them, and I think you can win without them.
- Angel's Trumpet is a crazy, game-warping card which... probably doesn't have a place here after all, since it creates a risk of the enemy killing your utility creatures. But it's worth knowing about, I think.
- Rune of Protection: Red and Rune of Protection: Green. Since you're mono-white, the W requirement isn't a drawback, and you can cycle them in the wildly unlikely event that you don't face any Gruul, Elementals, dinosaurs, or treefolk.
- Icatian Store is a mono-white storage land. I have no idea if storage lands are worth bothering with or not, but I'm kind of liking them so far.
- Zhuge Liang (Kongming, "Sleeping Dragon") is always useful in White Weenie. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is probably a stronger option, but I don't like Phyrexians on a Vorthos level; it's much more fun to run historical figures. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuge_Liang)
- Pariah and Pariah's Shield have fun interactions with Cho-Manno, but probably aren't necessary if you're using a relevant Circle/Rune of Protection.
Regardless, great work so far! I found that a lot of the cards I was going to recommend were already in the deck; and I'm hanging on to this deck for future reference. If I ever build something similar, this will be the starting point!
3 months ago
Imo, you need some more focus in the deck, particularly when it comes to your wincon. Playing your commander, plus a ton of token generators, should be your wincon; in addition to other blanket buffers like Honor of the Pure
Taking a hard look at creatures, for maximum effect, it would work better if you had lots of low cmc creatures, with hampering effects for your opponents or beneficial effects for your board state. Your early game should look like youre setting up while keeping board state pressure to keep your opponent at bay. [card: Thalia, Heratic Cathar] is a great example of these kinds of cards.
Other examples include
Theres a bunch of other creatures that will help your midgame by getting you life when you dump out tokens in droves. Good ol' Soul Sisters Soul Warden and Soul's Attendant and Suture Priest are your friends as long as you keep your board state fun for token friends. Speaking of token friends, this is the time they should be showing up to the party in droves. Both the Theros God Heliod, God of the Sun and Amonket God Oketra the True are great bros for dropping token hoes. Captain of the Watch, Evangel of Heliod, Knight-Captain of Eos and Precinct Captain all specifically drop the uptight/upright Soldier tokens, usually ETB.
Its a good time to get your pokes in, but your late game boomers are your commander Elesh Norn, Brisela, Jazal Goldmane and possibly Angelic Field Marshal. You could always include Felidar Sovereign if you think you'll end up pillow forted in and unable to swing for lethal, but that kind of depends on your play group as well.
Support spells are generally looking like boardwipes built in your favor like Martial Coup or buffers with an extra kick, namely Spear of Heliod or Marshal's Anthem. That being said, there is always room for a nice Wrath of God to the face. You can also get recursion working in your favor with a Sun Titan or Emeria Shepherd.
Spot removal is also a thing with white. Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Entrapment Maneuver just to name a few with creatures. Other land, enchantment or artifact removal is a bit dependant on your play group as well, but one or two of those is usually a smart move in the deck.
Mana rocks are a HUUUUUUGE piece to your deck if you want to get consistent earlier drops for Norn. Sol Ring, Thran Dynamo, Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power and Gilded Lotus are some of the more obvious choices if youve got some cash to burn. Otherwise theres always Worn Powerstone or Marble Diamond among some cheaper manrock pick-ups.
Passive buffs are your butter to your token bread. Akroma's Memorial is a spectacular example, just like Eldrazi Monument, Intangible Virtue, Crusade and the like. Any blanket effect like that turns your weenies into winners. Try not to pile on with these guys too much or you could end up with a bunch of enchantments and few lands for a battlefield.
Last, but certainly not least, packing in some planeswalkers that support your token buddies help fill some gap where spells fall short. Elspeth, Knight-Errant brings more party animals, threats and a darksteel bomb for your field. Her Mirrodin version Elspeth Tirel keeps you stayin' alive, dropping bros and a wrath on a stick. [card: Ajani Goldmane] isnt quite as strong of an inclusive planeswalker, BUT if you have built up a semi decent state, dropping him can turn the tide in your favor from a cruddy turn 4 to a swing for some good damage turn 4.
Decks like this are kind of similar to fencing or boxing. Poke when you can, keep up a strong front, and even when they got you on the ropes, a haymaker can be a game changer.
Good referance material can be found here on EDHREC.com: https://edhrec.com/commanders/elesh-norn-grand-cenobite
Just like wikipedia, it might not always be the best source material, but it points you in a good direction.
4 months ago
Alright. Ill look for more low cost, first few turn token summoners. Maybe some of these would fit here: Rhys the Redeemed (using the white half) Evangel of Heliod (I know he has a little bit more cmc, but he is pretty good), maybe Elspeth Tirel for later game (or Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Rise of the Hobgoblins, or Goblin Trenches.