|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Amonkhet (AKH)||Mythic Rare|
|SDCC Promo 2017 (S17)||None|
|Promo Set (000)||Mythic Rare|
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- Would Glorious End make me lose the game if i have a Gideon of the Trials emblem?
- Will the second Approach of the Second Sun do nothing, with my opponent's Gideon of the Trials ultimate?
- Helm of the Host + Gideon of the Trials?
- Does card:Dauntless Bodyguard help a card:Gideon of the Trials?
- Helm of The Host with Emblems?
Gideon of the Trials
Planeswalker — Gideon
+1: Until your next turn, prevent all damage target permanent would deal.
0: Until end of turn, Gideon of the Trials becomes a 4/4 Human Soldier creature that's indestructible and is still a planeswalker. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn.
0: You get an emblem with "As long as you control a Gideon planeswalker, you can't lose the game and your opponents can't win the game."
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Gideon of the Trials Discussion
2 days ago
Rule 706.8: When copying a double-faced permanent, a face-up meld card, or a melded permanent, only the copiable values of the face that’s currently up are copied. (See rule 711, “Double-Faced Cards,” and rule 712, “Meld Cards.”)
Question 2: You get an unflipped version of the permanent. The status of being flipped is not a "copiable value" defined by Rule 706.2.
This rule creates some interesting implications. Hypothetically, let's say there's a flip card that's the opposite of Homura, Human Ascendant--it starts as an enchantment, and becomes a creature. You could equip Helm of the Host to the creature (the flipped version), but the token that's created will be the enchantment.
Since flip cards are unlikely to return, we will probably never see this specific rule irregularity. However, it does can occur with planeswalkers like Gideon of the Trials--if you equip the Helm to Gideon when transformed, you get a planeswalker token.
2 weeks ago
Since politics is not your thing and you are open to options how about full on pillow fort?
It needs a secondary strategy to back it up but it makes you difficult to go after. My Divine Decree is a good example. I can't say that you want to copy the 'bleed' portion of the deck as that gets me targeted every game but the pillows allow me to keep having fun even when the whole table turns on me.
Get something like Ajani Steadfast's emblem active and combat becomes a laughing matter. Glacial Chasm just stops all the damage so even Fireball does nothing. Of course the ultimate pillow is Gideon of the Trials emblem...
Another option is to suggest your group does team games instead of free-for-all. with 4 players you can do 2 headed giant, 5 players you can do secret partners, and 6 players you can do emperor.
3 weeks ago
Seems like a cool idea! I have a few suggestions.
1: Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is probably only good as a 5/5 swinger, as the -4 doesn’t do anything in a mostly spell deck and getting out a single 2/2 every turn is less beneficial than doing 1/4 of the opponent’s life total. Therefore, I think Gideon of the Trials would be a better alternative. He only swings for one less damage, he comes down a turn earlier, and he can prevent damage and stop you from losing the game.
2: Lightning Helix would be a useful one of or two of in the deck, especially since it seems like you lose more than a bit of life early on before you hit empirion.
3: I don’t really like Asylum Visitor. They only draw cards after someone has hellbent, by which point you will probably already have control of the game. That being said, I don’t have any alternative ideas. However, I will say that basically any interaction or draw would do better in that slot.
3 weeks ago
As you have added this list to the superfriends hub and mention that creatures would be the first thing you'd cut, I'll mainly focus my recommendations on the superfriends theme. A lot of the suggestions I am going to make might seem fairly obvious if you have seen more conventional superfriends lists, but incase you have not, I'll make them anyways.
Ok, after finishing this, I might need to add a TLDR: Subthemes are great, they make your deck unique. But if you want your deck to be reasonably streamlined, you might want to keep your subthemes just that: subtheme(s) to an actual main theme. Build your shell with that main theme in mind and then see how much space remains for your subtheme(s). Don't get caught in minute synergies between subtheme cards, keep asking yourself "does this go with my main theme or AT LEAST really hit the core of my subtheme?" The rest develops as you play the list and tinker around with it. Below you find some recommendations I would make for a superfriends shell. But take this all with a grain of salt, I am by no means an amazing player, nor an expert on deckbuilding.
Let's start this off with Primevals' Glorious Rebirth. This card is just plain insane. It allows you to play your walkers early on in the game without worrying about them dying too much and then get them all back in one backbreaking turn later on. Doubling Season into this has won me quite a few games.
Oath of Nissa is cheap, rarely fails to find something you want, and makes casting your walkers easier early on, which is nice. Oath of Gideon gets you tokens to block with, and the additional loyalty is often more relevant than one might think. Oath of Jace, Oath of Liliana and Oath of Ajani are definitely playable as well, but I think the others are less situational/ do more at their costs, so I tend to stick with those. It's worth noting that all the oaths are legendary, so they do come back with Primevals' Glorious Rebirth.
The Chain Veil is a classic Superfriends card, it's legendary so it comes back with Primevals' Glorious Rebirth and it makes for some insane turns once you have multiple Walkers online, especially if you can untap it, for example with Tezzeret the Seeker (infinite activation combos are possible here). I've heard about people actually cutting it because they find it a bit clunky (don't have one myself yet, so I can't really comment on that), but it's definitely a powerful card.
Settle the Score can be awkward. There is better singletarget removal available and it needs a target in order to uptick your walker. On the other hand, being able to ult a walker out of nowhere can be pretty sweet. Probably not an optimized card, but decent nontheless.
Extra turn spells like Nexus of Fate or Savor the Moment can allow for extra activations on your walker abilities or just win you the game outright if you can build a board of creatures before going into your extra turn and swinging.
The problem I see with your mana acceleration is that most of it is either pretty slow, susceptible to removal, or both. Gyre Sage for example needs you to get counters onto it to be effective and dies to any kind of creature removal (I still like the card when running +1/+1-counter-synergies and a certain amount of creatures, it just doesn't always ramp you very well). Mox Opal requires you to have metalcraft online, something which I found hard early on within a few test-mulligans I did, and the later the game gets, the lower the impact of a 0-Cost Manarock becomes. Astral Cornucopia and Everflowing Chaliceboth need a proliferate or two to really shine. Not to mention, if you are geared toward your friends, they might be teching for you as well, and something like a Vandalblastcould hose your ramp pretty hard.
I'd definitely include some landbased ramp along the lines of Farseek, Rampant Growth, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach or Solemn Simulacrum. It thins your deck, comes down fairly early, fixed your mana and rarely gets removed. If you have green in your identity, that ramp is hard to pass by.
Also, unless it's banned in your playgroup, Sol Ring. It's just really good. Especially if you want cheap artifacts that produce mana.
As Foretold is slow, but can get out of control fast, even more so when paired with proliferate. Definitely a fun card.
Another piece of acceleration that is good on it's own and has proliferate-synergy is Coalition Relic.
Thaumatic Compass Flip is a card i recently started running and I've been loving it so far. It fixes your mana and/or finds you lands if you need that, and it flips into a land that can tap for mana and protect your walkers, while being reasonably hard to destroy itself.
If you untap with Mirari's Wake on the board, the game can often just be over, and the +1/+1 works well both with the tokens from your walkers as well as the creatures that you're still running.
There are quite a few great walkers out there and I won't name them all (you're running quite a few of them already). Generally anything that gives you decent cardadvantage, protects itself (usually by making tokens to block with), or kills something the turn it comes down is fine, anything with a combination of 2 of those on its first two abilities is really good. Ults are a lot more relevant in this deck than in most others, as you actually have a pretty reliable chance of getting them off, but I'd still be careful with running a walker JUST because of it's ult. Run cards that you're happy to draw even without a doubling season on the board.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is the big bad dragon in the room. It's amazing, it wins games, is colorless so you can play it in other decks, but it's pricey.
Vraska, Relic Seeker is a walker I've grown to love recently. Her tokens are great, her removal hits a lot of things and actually gets you and artifact that somewhat ramps you, and her ult often allows you to just take one opponent out then and there (not to mention the fact that it's actually quite easy to reach her ult even without doubling season, seeing as her first ability is +2).
Elspeth, Knight-Errant is useful early on to make and pump tokens, and in your deciding turns her emblem can allow you to wipe your opponents boards while your creatures survive and swing for lethal. It also protects your board in case you can't finish off all opponents at once and have to let them untap. Vivien Reid does a similar job.
This highly depends on your metagame, but overall I feel like your list is a bit low on sweepers. One of the big upsides of running a lot of walkers is that very few boardwipes hit them, so you can continue to set back your opponents while protecting your walkers and generating value. Cards like Damnation/Wrath of God/Day of Judgment, Cyclonic Rift, Toxic Deluge, Decree of Pain, Merciless Eviction, Descend upon the Sinful, Austere Command, In Garruk's Wake and Phyrexian Scriptures all have their targets and you can run them as you see fit.
Counterspells in EDH are a tricky topic. My playgroup doesn't really run any and I hate playing against them so I don't want to start things, but if you see your big spells getting countered repeatedly, you might want to at least run something along the lines of Swan Song, Counterspell and/or Spell Pierce to protect them. Cards like Mystic Confluence or the more expensive Cryptic Command are great because you can just use their other modes in games where you don't want to counter any spells.
Unlike Ghostly Prison or Propaganda, Norn's Annex actually protects your walkers as well as your face. The problem is that aggro/go wide decks are often happier to pay life than mana, particularly early on.
As you already have Teferi's Protection, arguably the better card, this might be a bit overkill, but Comeuppance can be another emergency button kind of card (and this one can actually sometimes kill your opponent).
Some cards that are either just fun to play or decent on their own in the deck (most of these aren't all that optimized ^^).
Helm of the Host costs a LOT of mana to get it on the board and equipped. If your opponents can then remove it for little cost, it's pretty bad. But if it sticks around for a few turns, it can do insane things. An army of Atraxas (all of which proliferate at the end of turn) alone is amazing, but you can also abuse the effects of other creatures (like Deepglow Skate) or combo this with Gideon of the Trials to make a nonlegendary copy of the walker and an emblem on the same turn, forcing your opponents to deal with both walkers before they can kill you. And if they can't kill both before you untap, you can make another copy. And so on. Also synergises with both Doubling Season for extra tokens as well as Primevals' Glorious Rebirth for being another legendary permanent.
Thief of Sanity has been showing up in our playgroup quite a bit. At worst it's just a 2/2 flyer to block with, at it's best it creates this second hand for you that sticks around even if the thief dies and gives you the option to exile your opponents' best cards and use them against them.
If you want to stick with more of the Artifact- and/or +1/+1-counter-synergies, both Hangarback Walker and Walking Ballista are amazing cards on their own that can take over games once paired with some kind of enabler.
If you want to add to your infect-arsenal, both Ichor Rats and Viral Drake are decent cards to run. Be warned though, quite a few players dislike infect in EDH, and some playgroups even have houserules increasing the number of counters needed to kill someone to 15 or 20.
What to cut: In the end, this comes down to you. There might be subotimal cards that you really enjoy playing even if they don't increase your chances at winning. Or a certain sweet combo might justify running a card that is clunky in a lot of situations (Helm of the Host is definitely such a card for me).
Generally, I'd start with the cards that don't really go with any of your main themes. Stuff like Brago, King Eternal, Muldrotha, the Gravetide, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician or Etrata, the Silencer(proliferating assassination counters doesn't do anything btw, they have to be on different creatures; just in case you missed that). If you really want effects like that in your deck, try to find it on things that work better with your core themes (like Aminatou, the Fateshifter being able to blink important permanents the turn she comes into play and without having to attack, while working with planeswalker synergies, Primevals' Glorious Rebirth allowing you to return most of your core pieces from your graveyard in one big blowout or extra turn spells allowing you to untap permanents while also giving you extra planeswalker activations).
Then, if you want to focus on one theme and cut back on the others, start with those pieces that worst on their own, like Mox Opal doing literally nothing if you don't have Metalcraft turned on, or Corpsejack Menace being a plain 4/4 for 4 if you aren't putting counters on creatures. If you only have cards remaining that work on their own or with little buildaround, keep asking yourself "would I rather have this or something that goes with my core theme". At this point you can just keep trying around, cutting what feels bad to you, adding some stuff, maybe going back if it changes for the worse, but try to keep your bigger picture in mind. Keep enough of the core mechanics (card draw, ramp, removal, proactive plays) and always ask yourself "what does this do in my deck, why is it the best option, what could I be running instead?". The answer to this question can very well be "I like playing it" or "it looks cool" but this keeps you from playing cards in your deck without reason.
Sooo there you have it, my 2 cents (or maybe 20) on Atraxa Superfriends. There are quite a few expensive cards up there that I don't even own myself, so in case you're interested in my current list, you can find that here.
1 month ago
Platinum Angel, though it's a bit difficult to cast without ramp.
Gideon of the Trials, though it's subject to being able to keep it alive.
1 month ago
FAMOUSWATERMELON, unfortunately, I had to remove the previous name of "Planeswalking on Sunshine" in order to try to see if I can bring this to my YouTube channel! I guess we'll see if it works!
lil_cheez, genius idea! I've made the deck into a fully tricked out Primal Surge deck with the combo of Venser, the Sojourner's -1 on Vraska the Unseen's -7 (possible thanks to Deepglow Skate) after a turn has passed that we survive thanks to Gideon of the Trials's second 0 ability with Gideon Jura and Mystic Barrier or thanks to Teferi, Hero of Dominaria's -3.
Izz-Rei, and out of the shadows it rises! I might be playing this in The Bloodhall, which is the name of the series on my YouTube channel for multiplayer commander gameplay. I've done some major rehauling to the deck, so feel free to give me your feedback on how it looks now.
1 month ago
3/5 seem creature based, so why not have W/U more spell focused? So maybe a mix of Stax, taxes, pillow fort, possibly a touch of group hug. If you want Walker creatures I would think you would have to do it like Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker or Gideon of the Trials, where one of the abilities turn them into a critter for a turn.
Eminence on walkers... could work in place of Ultimate Abilities I suppose. Wolves and Minotaurs could be an anthem or on combat thing, exalted could be "If a creature attacks alone it gains Doublestrike". The cycling/discard could be something like "whenever you discard, each opponent does as well (possibly limited to once/turn?). And the last, maybe a Norn's Annex effect.
1 month ago
In all honesty, token beat down is how your current build is progressing. You need creatures/tokens in your deck to win a game, and you currently are not playing any creature spells. The only decks that do not play creatures/tokens as the win condition are combo decks such as storm, scapeshift, control etc. Your only non-token win condition is Nahiri + Emrakul, and that is a very slow plan and vulnerable to Dreadbore, burns spells to keep Nahiri from her ultimate, creature heavy decks, discard spells, and control decks. No Nahiri equals no emrakul casting, or very slow casting if everything is shuffled back into your deck and you hope to draw everything again. For a break down if your planeswalkers:
Ajani Vengeant seems to be more of a semi-control with the +1 ability, and using the -2 ability over and over again will be very slow and allows for your opponent to find an answer. The -2 ability does not hit all creatures in the format so it will not be very consistent with controlling the field. It is a good walker to get extra damage across, but not something I would not recommend using as a primary win condition.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant fits the token theme well and provides protection for your walkers. So no issues with this card.
Gideon of the Trials can be used for beat down when activated as a creature, but it is vulnerable to Path to Exile. Also, you lose the ability to attack with it as a creature if you have to use the +1 ability to protect yourself and your walkers. Thus, you would lose a win condition. Also, this would cause board stalls and allow for your opponent to draw into answers. I do think it is a good card to have in this deck though, but it just needs some additional support.
Liliana of the Veil is just a great card in general. I see no concerns with playing this card.
Nahiri, the Harbinger is a good card for filtering and the -2 ability will be relevant. I already addressed the concerns with the Emrakul plan.
Sarkhan, Fireblood is a good card filtering mechanic and is something early on that your opponent does have to answer. The -7 ability could be helpful, but it is a token which goes against your deck concerns.
So outside of your Nahiri + Emrakul plan, your win conditions are tokens generated by Elspeth, Sarkhan, and Lingering Souls, creature beats from Gideon, and pinging your opponent with Ajani. Even with the Oaths in there you are hinting around at a token themed deck because you get 1/1s from Gideon and 2/2s from Liliana.
Please do not get me wrong by all of this because I think you are on a right path with your build, but I just want to explain why adding more token generation would be important to your plan. You basically need a quicker clock so your opponents do not have enough time to find their answers. I suggested the other walkers in place of the Oaths because I felt like they fit your superfriends theme as well as providing more consistent token generation.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion is a good card in regards to token generation and clearing the board with the negative ability, but I do have to agree with the posts on your thread that getting up to 6-mana to play it may be tough. You can give it a try and see how it works because the worst case senario would be to just replace it with something else.
For Chandra, Torch of Defiance, I was not thinking that you should take Sarkhan out for it, but replace it for one of the Oaths since all of the abilities are relevant.
You could try your extra Inquistion and Thoughtseize plan, but that may be too much discard and without a reliable discard oulet on your end it would be a bad draw late game. I know you have Lilly, Sarkhan, and Looting in your deck, but that is just 7 cards out of 60 that allow you to discard. So your odds of having them out along with one of them in your hand for discard is small.
If you really want to get away from the token theme, you could try using man-lands as another win codition. These would be Shambling Vent, Lavaclaw Reaches, and Needle Spires. I am not sure if I would recommend that though because it has the potential to really slow downy our game early on since they have to come in tapped.
There are just a few ideas I had for you and in now am I trying to bully you into the token them. Just some things I was noticing with your current build and would like to help you make your deck more consistent.
May I ask why you are against the tokens theme?