, Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Wooded Foothills: Search your library for a Mountain or Forest card and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
|Have (2)||, Calanor|
|Want (4)||evallard13 , zudna , ArtistaFeo , PTsmitty|
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|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
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Wooded Foothills Discussion
4 weeks ago
In general, I would reference a non-budget Dredge list (from MTGgoldfish or another website like it) when you make upgrades, since those lists contain all the cards you'll want to get in the exact configurations you'll need. However, the Dredge deck in particular requires large investments alongside certain cards (like sets of fetchlands with Life from the Loam) in order to make them work, which can be difficult to figure out on your own.
I'd recommend making smaller upgrades first; the $25 Mardu version I listed above (Dredge ($25)) adds some white tri-lands to the mana base for Thrilling Discovery, Smiting Helix, and sideboard cards. Any other upgrades you'll want to make are going to be really big investments, so it'll be good to have a solid but fairly inexpensive base to play with while you work towards the more expensive stuff.
Now, it's important to consider which particular variant of Dredge you want to build before you start investing: some decks splash white for Thrilling Discovery and Prismatic Ending, some go for the traditional Jund list, others are straight Mardu. As of right now the most successful Dredge decks are cutting white for 1 mana enablers like Merchant of the Vale and Burning Inquiry for more speed (since graveyard hate is very popular atm). I personally like the white splash, but you do you.
Once you've figured that out, the most important upgrades you'll need to make are to the mana base. Competitive Dredge is heavily reliant on land synergies with Bloodghast, Life from the Loam, and by association Conflagrate (which is usually casted from the graveyard for big X values after filling your hand with lands via Loam). Fetchlands are by far the most important cards to have if you want to go this route. Having a nice suite of lands will also help with casting costs, which is always an issue with budget mana bases.
Other than that, the only upgrade you can really make until you have the lands is adding 3 Ox of Agonas for 1 Haunted Dead and 2 Smiting Helix; it's not too expensive to do this, but it also happens to be better with fetchlands, as they help pay for Ox's escape cost.
For lands, you'll want 8 R/X fetches, 4-5 R/X Dual lands, a couple fastlands, 3ish five-color lands, and one or two basics (~19 lands total). My recommendation for a 4c (RBgw) list:
- 4 Bloodstained Mire
- 4 Wooded Foothills
- 2 Stomping Ground
- 2 Blood Crypt
- 1 Sacred Foundry
- 1 Copperline Gorge
- 3 Gemstone Mine or a split of Gemstone Mine and City of Brass/Mana Confluence
- 2 Mountain
- Note: you don't have to get green lands like Stomping Ground until you have Life from the Loam.
- +3 Ox of Agonas, -2 Smiting Helix, -1 Haunted Dead
- +3 Life from the Loam, -3 Silversmote Ghoul Must have fetchlands
- +1 Bloodghast, -1 Silversmote Ghoul Must have fetches and Loam
- +2 Conflagrate, -1 Darkblast, -1 Golgari Thug Must have Loam
Hope this helps!
1 month ago
1 month ago
(printable version : )
Mana management in Magic is not always optimal, and can even be very frustrating if the draw is really unbalanced. Moreover, if lands are vital at the beginning of the game, they usually pollute the deck more afterwards. On the other hand, this is part of the fun of the game and the art of creating effective decks in any situation.
If you really want to optimize a deck, I feel like you often have to use rare (and expensive) lands that allow you to clean up the deck (e.g., Wooded Foothills) or that provide mana in two colors of your choice (e.g., Badlands, Dragonskull Summit).
Anyway, that's the game, but I recently discovered another game that introduces a very interesting mana management mechanism: Mage Noir (check out their site). During my first play tests, I immediately liked the way mana was managed. There is no frustration of not having THE necessary color without swimming in mana, no problem of hand full of lands or no lands during many turns, and this system adds a very interesting tactical side.
The general logic is that each turn, players select 3 mana of the color of their choice. One part goes into their pool, but the other can be retrieved by the opponent on his next turn. So, you have to make your deal, but try not to favor your opponent.
I immediately thought that such a system, if it worked for Magic, would be very pleasant to use. So, I set about creating the variant described here.
The principle introduced by Mage Noir is that each turn, the active player takes a certain amount of mana from the Infinite Pool and places them in the Channeled Pool. Then he can take some of this Channeled Pool to fill his Personal Pool.
A common feature of all the reserves presented below is that their contents are visible to all players at all times.
The Infinite Pool is composed of 6 mana colors, the 5 classic Magic colors plus the colorless "color" which becomes a color in its own right.
To make this mana pool, arrange the basic lands, face up, in 5 separate piles containing only lands of the same color (one pile of plains, another of islands...). For the colorless color, make a sixth pile with face-down cards (or any other type of card that you will not confuse with the 5 primary colors). These piles must be easily accessible by the players.
Ideally, you should have 20-25 lands in each pile, especially for the colors that are present in the decks that are played.
This pool is a common intermediate pool that will be replenished each turn by the players and after certain events. It is also in this pool that the players will draw to feed their Personal Pool.
It is composed of 2 distinct piles that can contain a varied number and type of mana. These 2 piles exist permanently even if one or both are empty. However, the identification or the positioning of these piles does not matter, they just have to be easily accessible to the players.
The details of its use are described in the paragraph New ability keyword: channeling X.
Corresponds to the classic Magic mana pool, the one that is replenished when you add mana to your mana pool, with the difference that it doesn't empty at the end of your turn.
Note that the direct consequence is that the notion of mana burn does not exist (anymore) in this variant of Magic (do I look old?).
This is a special mana pool used in special cases. It is mainly used to make certain mana of a player temporarily inaccessible. Each player has his own Stasis Pool.
See §Effects Involving Lands for full details, but in general, all effects that engage land or prevent land from being untapped will instead send mana from the Personal Pool into the Stasis Pool. How to recover this mana then depends on the effect.
In this variant a new keyword appears: channeling X. It corresponds to an action which consists in:
Take X mana from the Infinite Pool,
Add them, one by one and alternately, to the two piles of the Channeled Pool, starting with the smallest pile. An empty pile is considered to be the smallest possible pile, and in case of a tie, the player performing the action chooses the pile.
This action cannot be interrupted from the moment it was started. No player (nor the player performing the channeling) may perform any other action until all the mana involved by the channeling has been added to the Channeled Pool.
If there is more than one mana involved (X ≥ 2), then the player performing the channeling chooses the order of adding mana
The X next to the keyword indicates the amount and type of mana the player can take from the Infinite Pool. It can be of several kinds:
A number: the player can take as much mana as the indicated quantity, distributed according to the colors of his choice, the mixture being completely possible. The colorless mana is a possibility as well as the "classic" colored mana.
Colorless mana (respecting the iconography of Magic: , ...): the player must take the indicated amount of colorless mana. He can't take white, blue, red, black or green mana instead.
Colored mana: the player must take a mana of the indicated color.
Here are some examples:
Channeling 2: the player chooses 2 mana of any color.
Channeling : the player takes 1 colorless mana and 2 blue mana.
On the side of the Channeled Pool, if for example the A pile contains 2 mana, and the B pile contains 3 mana, then for a channeling , the player can:
Add to pile A
Then to pile B
And to pile A.
The order in the example could be or , but the A pile will always (in this case) have 2 more mana at the end of the action, and the B pile only 1 more mana.
The focus consists of taking X mana from the Infinite Pool and put it directly into your Personal Pool.
However, the mana thus recovered is returned to the channeled reserve at the end of the current turn if it has not been used (i.e. as for mana in the classic rules).
The same rules as for the channeling apply in terms of color restriction (ex: 2 ≠ ).
Ability to take X mana from a player's Personal Pool and place it in that player's Stasis Pool. Unless otherwise noted, the mana from the Stasis Pool returns to the player's Personal Pool during his next land clearing step.
The same rules as for the channeling apply in terms of color restriction (ex: 2 ≠ ).
The player who is the target of a dissipation must return X mana from his Personal and/or Stasis Pool to the Infinite Pool. If he does not have enough mana available, he must empty both his reserves.
The same rules as for the channeling apply in terms of color restriction (ex: 2 ≠ ).
During the untapping step, the active player additionally recovers mana from his Stasis Pool and places it in his Personal Pool, unless the mana was placed in stasis by an effect that specifies a particular condition for mana recovery (see §Effects Involving Lands).
After the draw step, during the beginning of the turn phase, a new step is added: the channeling. This step takes place as follows:
The active player will make a channeling 3, it cannot be countered in any way.
Players can then play instant, activate abilities (mana or not) following the classic Magic rules. Rituals and invocations (except flash) cannot be played.
Finally, the active player chooses one of the two piles from the Channeled Pool and adds it to his Personal Pool.
The step is optional, but if it is done, it must be done in full. Moreover, if it is done, the player cannot play any more lands from his hand during this turn (except for the effect of a spell).
Thus, during the channeling, the active player must choose whether he prefers to place a land or to take mana from the Channeled Pool.
As soon as a card indicates that you can add any number of mana to your mana pool (lands, abilities, spells...) you must make a focus X instead, where X is exactly the mana indicated in the initial text.
So add to your mana pool becomes focus .
However, if the card that allows you to make a channeling is a land, you must sacrifice it and put it in your graveyard. Note that if an ability of a land is used and it does not generate mana, the land is not sacrificed, the land behaves as a simple permanent.
To pay the mana cost of a spell or ability, you must use the mana in your Personal Pool. The rules are as follows:
Colored mana has to be paid with mana of the same color,
Colorless mana has to be paid with mana of a different color than the card or with colorless mana. For example, the colorless mana of a red card cannot be paid with red mana, but a mixture of other colors can be used, not necessarily a single color. For multicolored cards, the possible colors are those that do not appear in the colored part of the spell casting cost (so for abilities you have to look at the spell casting cost and not the ability cost). The goal is to force monochrome decks to vary the amount of mana they channel, so that in the end they are not at an advantage over multicolored decks.
For artifacts, creatures with Devoid, or any other colorless card, the colorless mana cost must be paid with at least half the cost rounded up in colorless mana, with the rest of the cost to be paid with any colored mana. For example, an artifact with a summoning cost of 3 or 4 should be paid with 2 colorless mana and the rest in colored mana. As colorless mana becomes a color in its own right, the goal is to approach the same constraints as for colored costs.
Sunburst: no change except for colorless cards. For these, in order not to reduce the effect too much, the rule is adjusted. Colorless mana that normally must be used may be replaced by a colored mana if and only if only one mana of that color is used to pay the cost. For example, for a cost of with Sunburst, or can be used, but not . Colorless mana still does not count towards the effects of Sunburst.
This defines the mana to be used to pay the cost. The use of the mana thus spent depends on the type of card:
Cost to summon a Permanent: Mana stays with the permanent. Slide the spent mana under the permanent card. Ideally, you should put the cards in a staircase so that the mana attached to the permanent is always visible. If the permanent leaves the battlefield, the mana that was attached to it returns to the Channeled Pool following the same rules as for channeling (except that the mana does not come from the Infinite Pool).
Otherwise (spell, ability...): once the effect is resolved, the mana that has been spent returns to the Channeled Pool following the same rules as for channeling (except that the mana does not come from the Infinite Pool).
- Ability color restrictions are based on the color of the card with the ability, even if an opponent has to pay the mana cost in the end. Ex: Mystical Dispute: the cost of must be paid with non-blue mana.
Adjustment of rules
As mana management is totally different and the interest of lands becomes limited (as they are single-use, see Activation of mana abilities), it is no longer necessary to build a deck with lands. As a result, the minimum number of cards that a deck must contain is reduced to 40 cards instead of 60 (lands usually represent about one third of a classic deck).
Regarding lands, they are still allowed but there is now a limit of 8 lands in a deck, and each land (identical name) can only be present 4 times. Moreover, as mentioned in §New game phase: Channeling, a land can only be put into play from the hand if the player has not channeled this turn.
Ideally, you should limit the cards to a maximum of 3, if you are making a deck specifically for this variant, but the goal is to be able to play easily, so the easiest thing to do is to just remove the lands from your existing decks and enjoy!
Nevertheless, a number of effects must be adapted to the new number of cards.
As mentioned in the previous paragraph, some general rules must be adjusted:
The starting hand is 5 cards instead of 7, but the (basic) maximum number of cards remains 7.
All effects based on the number of cards in a library must consider a number of cards divided by 2, rounded up. If the targeted player's library has less than 20 cards [...] becomes If the targeted player's library has less than 10 cards [...]. Or Put the top 3 cards of the targeted library under it becomes Put the top 2 cards of the targeted library under it.
By extension, all the effects of draw, mil, scry... also have the number of cards concerned divided by 2, rounded up.
Spell casting costs including a cost in : Since mana can be accumulated from turn to turn, it can be easier to cast overpowered spells. Therefore, the cost of mana in must be multiplied by 2, so (so if the cost was already , then it becomes !).
Effects involving a number of lands are generally replaced by a devotion on the associated color (affinity, crossing...). See §Effects Involving Lands for more details.
Number of lands of a color: replaced by a Devotion to the concerned color. For artifact lands consider a devotion to the colorless divided by 2, rounded down.
Basic Land Affinity: to determine the cost reduction, consider that you have as much land as the value of your Devotion to the color of the land concerned. Ex: Affinity with Swamps => the cost of the spell can be reduced by X colorless where X is your Devotion to Black.
Improvise: no change.
Land cycling: the player can perform a Channeling 2, but only using mana of the color of the indicated field. Ex: Mountain Cycling = Channeling .
Landfall: is triggered if a land has actually been put into play, or if an effect/spell that should have put a land into play is resolved (but has in fact been replaced by a focus, see the point above). Channeling and focus do not therefore by default trigger the ability.
Possible as soon as a mana of the concerned color is attached to a permanent of the targeted opponent. Ex: Mountainwalk => creature cannot be blocked as long as there is Red mana attached to an opponent's permanent.
In the case of supertype (e.g., legendary land), then the creature cannot be blocked as long as the opponent has a permanent of the specified type (e.g., legendary creature/enchantment)
In the case of subtypes (e.g., snowy forest), then the subtype is ignored.
For the next effects, the following rules apply in general:
If the initial effect specifies a (combination of) land color, then the targeted mana must be of the same (combination of) color.
For artifact lands, consider colorless mana.
If the number of targeted lands is 2 or more, a combination of land and mana can be used respecting the indicated ratio.
If the effect requires a quantity to be resolved, the player must respect the quantity requested (either in land or in mana). If there is not enough land/mana the spell cannot be resolved.
On the effects side, they can be replaced by:
Tap X Lands (spell effect): stasis X. Ratio of 1 land to 1 mana.
Untap X Lands (spell effect): focus X. Ratio of 1 land to 1 mana.
Destroy X Lands: dissipation XX. Ratio of 1 land to 2 mana.
Sacrifice X Lands: dissipation XX. Ratio of 1 land to 2 mana.
Return X lands to his owner's hand: stasis XX. Ratio of 1 land to 2 mana.
Exile X land: dissipation XX. Ratio of 1 land to 2 mana.
Put X land into play (spell effect): focus X. If the lands arrive in play tapped, then the mana is placed in the Stasis Pool instead of the Personal Pool. Ratio of 1 land to 1 mana.
Exile: the mana attached to the exiled card (if it was in play) remains attached to the card during its exile, and returns with it if it leaves the exile.
Ingest: no change because it concerns only one card.
Mil: the number of cards is divided by 2, rounded up.
Monarch: no change because it concerns only one card.
Scry: the number of cards is divided by 2, rounded up
Ripple: the number of cards is divided by 2, rounded up.
Threshold: no change, the other adjustments mean that normally the cemetery does not fill up much faster.
Sunburst: no change except for the colorless cards (see §Pay a mana cost)
Surveil: the number of cards is divided by 2, rounded up.
It is likely that some cards will become too strong with the new mana mechanics, if this is the case then it would be wise not to use them. Here is a non-exhaustive list of such cards:
- To be defined, feel free to send me cards that should be banned.
However, if possible, if by slightly adjusting the text of the card it is possible to return to an acceptable effect (compared to what it can produce with the classic rules), then it can be used. Here is a non-exhaustive list of such cards:
Mind Funeral: will probably mill the whole deck at once, but if we consider Mil 8 instead (so that 4 cards are actually discarded, see §Abilities) then the card becomes fully playable again. You can also consider rolling a die to discard 4+X cards.
Feel free to send me other cards that should be adjusted.
The main thing in these cases is to reach an agreement between players before starting the game.
Improve the game material
Mage Noir also uses cards to symbolize mana, but in the end using tokens of adapted colors makes the management much simpler: it takes much less space, it is easier to identify the mana, when tapping/untapping you don't need to manage the piles so that the mana remains visible...
Personally, I use colored plastic crystals, but cubes, discs, wood or plastic (metal?) are just as good, the trick is to have the right colors if possible.
Clearly, it's not necessary, but it makes the game much more enjoyable, I think.
These rules have been tested on a number of different decks: aggro, mil, tribal, discard, madness... but never played at a competitive level. I did not observe any noticeable imbalance, I even found that some "less good" decks managed to compete better against the other decks.
The mana management is less random, more balanced between players, there is really a tactical aspect on the choice of mana or on the fact to destroy a permanent. The mana curve is no longer linear, there are strong moments and weak moments, a bit like in a real fight, where when you have just cast a big spell, you are a priori a bit out of breath.
I've been away from Magic for a while, but this idea really motivated me to come back to it and in the end, I really enjoyed playing it again using this variant.
So, I hope you'll have fun testing it, and giving me feedback to improve it!
2 months ago
I've had my eye on possibly running Glacial Crevasses in my EDH decks for quite some time now as I feel it makes an excellent combat deterrent. By having this card on the field the whole table knows I can completely negate an attack thrown at me even when tapped out which can help keep combat-oriented decks from wanting to waste their combat step on me.
The problem is this card only works if I have Snow-Covered Mountains. If I have none Glacial Crevasses means nothing to my opponent, if I have one Snow-Covered Mountain my opponents might try to fish me into sacking it and if I have three Snow-Covered Mountains my opponents will likely not bother with me until the game reaches a 1-versus-1 state.
This card is easier to run in mono-red decks, but I want to put it in 3-color decks which means I don't want to flood my entire manabase with Snow-Covered Mountains especially if I'm not going to draw into Glacial Crevasses certain games.
Additionally would you count fetch-lands towards your Snow-Covered Mountain count, such as Arid Mesa , Ash Barrens , Bloodstained Mire , Prismatic Vista , Scalding Tarn and Wooded Foothills? (My 3-color red decks usually run all 6 of these fetches just to color fix with Ravnica shock lands if needed.)
Also how good would you evaluate Unstable Frontier as a utility land? If I'm running Snow-Covered Forests, Snow-Covered Islands, Snow-Covered Plains or Snow-Covered Swamps, I can use Unstable Frontier to turn any of them into a Snow-Covered Mountain and as a color fixing source if I have too many Snow-Covered Mountains, but I don't know if it would be better to just use another Snow-Covered Mountain over it instead.
Lastly, should I run cards like Alpine Meadow, Highland Forest, Sulfurous Mire and Volatile Fjord? I already run all the Modern fetch-lands that could tutor for lands such as these, so I could hit them very consistently, but I don't like the fact they're tap-lands. Given I run only three colored decks I can only ever fit any of two of them at a time. Would they be worth an inclusion?
Thank you for your insight.
3 months ago
I found having too many cats wasn't very useful, I went a bit extreme, down to 14 cats, but 28 is a lot. Arahbo, Roar of the World only Eminence triggers one cat, and unless you're in a state with a ton of mana to activate the ability for multiple cats, not really needed.
How I solved this problem, was more creature tutor cards (instead of more cats), so Sylvan Tutor , Time of Need , I got a Survival of the Fittest for xmas one year which was cool. Chord of Calling , Eldritch Evolution even Congregation at Dawn are all viable to. The right cat at the right time vs. drawing more cats. Initiate's Companion , Leonin Skyhunter , Steppe Lynx feel like some easy cuts.
Are you primarily trying to kill everyone with combat damage? Beastmaster Ascension maybe?
Fumigate seems wrong.
Might reduce in lands, do you find yourself flooded, eliminate anything that comes into play tapped with no strong ability. Your not running toward a Tooth and Nail or anything so likely can miss a T4-6 land drop and still be in good shape, can also Land Tax or Archaeomancer's Map or Kodama's Reach to get more lands in hand. Evolving Wilds , Krosan Verge , Path of Ancestry could be some easy. If you're worried about mana fixing, fetch lands are great Windswept Heath but also the off-color ones like Wooded Foothills , Flooded Strand , etc.
Teferi's Protection to dodge board wipes?
I might add an alt win-con, Triumph of the Hordes might be one, but having a backup plan, maybe Grafted Exoskeleton or perhaps Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants to bring back Lost Leonin . Bala Ged Recovery Flip for Triumph of the Hordes , I dunno something?
Hope you find something useful here. +1
4 months ago
Nice deck +1 :)
I recommed adapting the Manabase to run one Wastes against Blood Moon , otherwise you wont be able to pay for your Eldrazi-Creatures: +1 Wastes , +1 Prismatic Vista , -1 Forest , -1 Wooded Foothills .
Also the recently printed Ignoble Hierarch is a better choice than Birds of Paradise .
4 months ago
Competitive all the way
Botanical Sanctum > Wooded Foothills
Darkslick Shores > Scalding Tarn
Darkwater Catacombs > Verdant Catacombs
Grand Coliseum > Misty Rainforest
Path of Ancestry > Dark Confidant
Counterspell > Mana Drain
6 months ago
(w)hite: total (c)ards with white mans symbols is = 11, total white mana (s)ymbols = 18, (t)otal cmc of all cards that have white = 72, white (s)ymbol(a)verage = 1.63, white cards (t)otal(a)verage cost = 6.54, round up total demand is 2 in (7+7 cards in opening hand) so access to 2 white mana with in 14 cards drawn leaves a demand of 16, (w)=16
u: c=13, s=18, t=72, sa=1.38, ta=5.53, u=15
b: c=15, s=24, t=104, sa=1.60, ta=6.93, b=16
r: c=24, s=36, t=130, sa=1.50, ta=5.41, r=18
g: c=22, s=34, t=133, sa=1.54, ta=6.04, g=17
(m)ana demand: average cmc of deck total 5.00, (5in5 = 62.5), m=63
color demand: total amount of cards needed that can provide access to a specific color
white = 16, blue = 15, black = 16, red = 18, green = 17
keep in mind multi color lands, fetch, rocks, dorks, ramp lower the demand of any color it can provide
Wooded Foothills can fetch Zagoth Triome for example
so Wooded Foothills white= 00, blue= -01, black= -01, red= -01, green= -01
Golos, Tireless Pilgrim white= -01, blue= -01, black= -01, red= -01, green= -01
Mana demand: total amount of cards needed that give access to mana is 63 cards
any card that can give you mana reduces this number (lands,dorks,rocks,spells) the only catch to this is the card that supplies the mana has to cost less then your avgerage cmc
last note base color demand total is 82 and mana demand is 63
after utilizing color fixing if you get your color demand less then your mana demand you can then utilize colorless mana rocks to met your mana demand faster ie Sol Ring = mand demand - 2.