Laboratory Maniac

Creature — Human Wizard

If you would draw a card while your library has no cards in it, you win the game instead.

Discussion (48)

TotesMcGoats on Wizzardrix (Kwain, Itinerant Meddler)

1 week ago

Hey no worries OatmealBear, happy to help!

You nailed it on the first question. Originally I was making a mill deck with Kami of the Crescent Moon and all of those kinds of cards, but I think thats its own dedicated strategy, not really a group hug thing. You can certainly include group draw cards in that style of deck to get extra triggers and draw your opponents through their decks even faster too, but I don't think they go in the friendlier soft-control style we're going for here. People see Kwain and their first thought is, "That seems kinda underpowered and totally innocent...how are they trying to break it?" And the point of this deck is, for us at least, we're not trying to break him, we're just playing him as nothing but a straight up helpful good boy. But as soon as you play something like Psychic Corrosion, they think exactly: "Ah, that's what their gameplan is. Its a mill deck," and the jig is up. Kinda hard to play innocent after that. Otherwise with our deck, if you don't specifically know about the Smothering Tithe+Prosperity combo, you could search our whole deck and have no idea what our win condition is, it just looks like a pile of friendly group hug cards and some removal and counterspells. I think a card draw/mill deck is definitely doable, but you're probably better off going with Bruvac the Grandiloquent or Kami of the Crescent Moon and hard committing to the strategy. You can even still run the combo in mono-blue now thanks to Hullbreacher, which was originally going to be my plan until they spoiled Kwain and I got hella excited, lol.

As for Mirrodin Besieged, you'd have to play a lot more artifacts to make it work. If you're just using if for the card draw, we have enough strictly better options that don't make us discard so we don't really need it, and I don't think we have enough artifact spells to capitalize off of making Myr tokens or enough atifacts to be able to get enough artifacts into our grave for the alternate win condition. Just not sure what it really does for us. If you're just looking to make some tokens to chump block with, Nadir Kraken and Chasm Skulker are great at that, but I cut them because they can get awful huge and threatening and draw unnecessary aggro toward us. Oneirophage, Toothy, Imaginary Friend, and Psychosis Crawler are kinda the same, people see them and go "Aha, THAT'S your win condition!" and immediately want to blow it up so that you don't even become a problem. Hence, I cut them. No threats, no worries!

As for Windfall, I think its value is somewhat diminished for us in our deck. We tend to hold a full hand of cards most of the time with all our extra drawing, and Windfall gets the best value after you've played out your hand and can capitalize on discarding maybe 1 or 2 cards to draw 6 or 7 off an opponent. However, when everyone has full hands, its usually not card advantage anymore, its basically just a one-time Teferi's Puzzle Box except we have to discard everything in our hand, some things we might have prefered to keep, and instead draw a whole new hand blind. It can sort of be a win condition on its own in the late game if you've built up a sizeable enough hand that a Windfall might just mill everyone out, but for that, you'll need to have Jace, Wielder of Mysteries or Laboratory Maniac to win when you draw out. I found myself a lot of times with more cards in my hand than in my deck and less cards in my deck than in my opponents, and neither of the two alt win-cons, so Windfall didn't do me any good at all. They literally project "Hi, I'm a win condition", and they aren't any good on their own, so they tended to end up dead in my hand, so I just ended up cutting them and relying on the other win conditions instead.

Hope that helps! Lemme know if you have any other cards you're considering, I've probably thought about them to, and I'm happy to share my thoughts!

Vlasiax on Tuvasa of the Eternal Aeon | Primer

2 weeks ago

Have you considered adding some kind of infinite mana sink to win in other way than a combat? In my Arcades, the Strategist deck as I achieve infinite mana combo I want to win mostly via Laboratory Maniac/Thassa's Oracle (the latter can have bonus points in your list for being another Merfolk and unlike Lab-Man it can be used outside of combo).

Also I guess Season of Growth can be considered a budget replacement for something like Sylvan Library and in my Gargos Enchantress deck it works as another Enchantress effect, since it's restricted to .

And speaking of Gargos deck - do you mind taking a look at my list and giving it a little feedback? [Here's the link:](https://archidekt.com/decks/450098#Giga_Green_General)

Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor on Siani and Eligeth *budget*

3 weeks ago

I guess I missed Siani being spoiled, but these two partners have awesome synergy. You might consider adding in Gravitational Shift as a way to get more damage through and to blunt ground attacks. 1-2 of Laboratory Maniac, Thassa's Oracle, or Jace, Wielder of Mysteries could be a good additional win-con since you will be drawing a ton of cards. Or you could try the good ol' Psychosis Crawler win-con. All of those cards are less than $4 and give you that alternate route to victory you were searching for.

I do have one concern though, most of your creatures cost 5 cmc or more and you run only 5 ramp spells. There will be a lot of times where you struggle to get enough mana and/or keep pace with decks that ramp more aggressively. Plus I foresee times where you only have enough mana to cast one 5+ cmc spell a turn while everyone else has enough mana to cast multiple spells. I'd personally double the amount of ramp at a minimum, but you could probably go up to 12-13 ramp spells in a deck like this (there are plenty of budget ramp options that remain). Besides that, this deck seems pretty cool! +1 from me.

sub780lime on Damia

3 weeks ago

I'd love to know more what you see the lane of the deck to be. That would help provide more strategic recommendations. Looking at the list, I see a lot of 'good stuff' cards, but not always seeing how they all are intended to work together. That could just be me. There is the Laboratory Maniac and you do have a few ways to increase or multiple your draws...

While I'm not recommending specific ones of these cards, I see Damia, Sage of Stone and try to build around with cards that are impacted by the number of cards in your hand and building that number up. In my own build once upon a time, I aimed to draw more where I could and hold onto those cards. You have a Thought Vessel and Reliquary Tower, but also having a free Spellbook might be in order.

I see the snow-covered lands, but not much interaction with them. A Scrying Sheets or Sunstone seem in order.

There are many ways to be a little hand hate bear if you want. Noetic Scales can be fun in this way or Locust Miser. Narset, Parter of Veils plays in well to this too.

As far as cards in your hand interaction, I'll throw out a bunch, but with no particular synergy in mind aside from cards in hand. You might have enough green for Phosphorescent Feast. If your constantly overfilling your hand, Scroll Rack would give you some major filtering. Credit Voucher also does this, but isn't repeatable. Jushi Apprentice  ^Flip is one way you can overfill your hand in Damia. Sea Gate Restoration  ^Flip can come in as an untapped land, but if you are rolling in mana, it can fill that hand even more. You are also ramping really hard and just one of the draw X spells probably has a place here. There are, of course, a number of cards that have power/toughness equal to your cards in hand if you wanted to go that route. Ominous Seas is a card you'll trigger a lot in Damia.

No Cyclonic Rift? Some form of graveyard hate is probably warranted, even if just, especially dropping a swamp for Bojuka Bog. You've got 3 sorcery tutors, but I'd slot one out for Vampiric Tutor.

I've been thinking about rebuilding Damia myself as mill deck now that there is so much more support for it.

VampDemigod on Commander Legends card is going …

3 weeks ago

Time to call up Ral Zerek and ask if I can call in some Laboratory Maniacs so we can pull out all the things we’ve been Brainstorming.

Skyzzik on Bruvac the 25th Advisor

4 weeks ago

After all considerations i decided to scratch the idea of milling myself so Enter the Infinite, Ambassador Laquatus, Jace, Wielder of Mysteries and Laboratory Maniac are gone. Instead of those: Folio of Fancies, Mindcrank, Ruin Crab and Silent Gravestone are in. We shall see what that will do. More suggestions are appreciated.

Oloro_Magic on [Primer] - Ad Nauseam Combo [[Procellam Legit]]

4 weeks ago

Pandora314:

Firstly, thank you for the compliments, they are much appreciated, getting to your questions though, I will preface with saying that at this point I have played a lot more WITH the new additions to taxes than against it on Ad Naus meaning I do not have a ton of concrete data to back up my points.

My opinions on the matchup have not changed much, I still believe it to be relatively comfortable though with a strong margin of error dependent on pilot. I will focus here first solely on the mono-white version. Skyclave Apparition is a card I am only worried about inasmuch as they tend to play the playset. Granted they can slow down our development, or worse tag Phyrexian Unlife, but at the end of the day I think we need to evaluate what that line of play translates to for us. If we assume our opponent is playing Skyclave Apparition on turn 3 in an effort to stagger our development. I believe we are fairly safe to assume that Stoneforge Mystic was not the turn 2 play (in most circumstances, perhaps we are on the play and they fear a turn 4 win which is also a possible scenario). With this in mind we need to consider what this means for our opponents clock. The other 2 drops in their deck (pre-board) are Leonin Arbiter and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, if they are playing Skyclave Apparition turn 3 then we can also assume healthily that the latter was not the play as in that case scenario they have less to fear as concerns a turn 4 win. So let's assume they have played Leonin Arbiter, they now have 2 damage on board at least, turn 1 could have been Aether Vial in which case we can expect another 2-drop at end of turn, again a 2-drop likely with 1/2 power. Add to this the 2 of the Skyclave Apparition and we are at 5/6 past this turn cycle. Overall I like being in that spot even if we have lost a Pentad Prism, of course scenarios could change if we were reliant on that Pentad Prism but being reliant on 1 rock is already a good way to lose against taxes. I bring this all up because a turn 3 Skyclave Apparition precludes an effective Stoneforge Mystic sequence by at least 1 turn, which is a scenario I am more than willing to accept at the cost of a Pentad Prism. We still go well over D&T's head, so delaying their most effective means of killing us quickly is, in this scenario, what I would consider a net neutral gain. I do not want to come across as dismissive here though, they play a playset of Skyclave Apparition, that is something we have to be aware of, in other words, Lotus Bloom becomes ever more important. Here, Phyrexian Revoker becomes relevant, as having the ability to both shut off and remove or set-up and thus be able to be more selective is an issue we need to address, a point I'll get to shortly.

As regards Archon of Emeria, yes. This card is an issue. I will say it has the distinct advantage for us of not being Deafening Silence which I would argue is far worse for us. I will start by saying if D&T is of great concern to you I would consider a mainboard Echoing Truth solely on account of this card, that said in a wide meta that isn't viable and we then have to be smart about beating it. One such way to beat it would technically be to cast Ad Nauseam on opponent's end step with a Phyrexian Unlife active and leave one card in the deck, we can then win the following turn with Thassa's Oracle, be aware though that the line opens us up to the aforementioned Skyclave Apparition, probably a risk we would have to take in that scenario. Most lists run two Archon of Emeria so there is a decent chance we don't have to deal with it game one but yes it is a card that has the ability to shift the balance in our opponent's favor when it comes down. I also should point out, in case someone else is reading this as well, that the lands entering tapped clause is very relevant and should be considered as it can slow us down considerably.

Moving to sideboarding considerations then, Grand Abolisher is fairly solid yes, as to whether it does enough is a bit of a trickier question. Personally, I think we should not underestimate it's ability versus equipment and Stoneforge Mystic, but yes it is most useful for shutting off vial shenanigans such as end-step Flickerwisp. If D&T is a concern I would likely consider up to 2 Grand Abolisher however Grand Abolisher doesn't exactly solve any problem inasmuch as it nullifies issues while we address the larger problem. In the current meta I think we have to start with upping the amount of removal, 1 Slaughter Pact provides some great utility as a one of, and then 3 Path to Exile should be sufficient here to answer the most problematic creatures whilst maintaining relevance against the others popular decks in the format. Again I also like Echoing Truth and even Abrupt Decay effects I believe have some great utility here.

Addressing a potential rise in metashare, I will preface with saying I don't see that necessarily happening as a long time D&T player myself. The deck is too much of a meta deck really to reach Hogaak levels of play to draw a comparison, that said with the current meta the way it is I wouldn't be surprised if D&T got to 5-15% of the field, at which point your argument for a board wipe could be a consideration. We have to ask ourselves then what is popular if D&T is getting that big. Spirits seems like something that could be considered there, Gruul also seems a safe bet, forgive me for it is late and I can't think of a ton off the top of my head, in the environment that D&T is likely to foster then, board wipes would be a good choice, the question though would be which board wipe? Bontu's Last Reckoning is certainly the most efficient, but it is far from the only option. I have always been a fan of Settle the Wreckage for instance, and Supreme Verdict is also a viable option. In the face of a lot of D&T and the decks that would accompany its rise I would also strongly consider a plan B in the sideboard. Grave Titan has the ability to more or less keep up with D&T, Keranos, God of Storms is also decent there weirdly, Dragonlord Dromoka and similar cards are also viable, as is Inferno Titan as a sort of catch all, being a plan B but also a potential mini-boardwipe. In other words, I don't think fear of D&T should throw you onto a boardwipe by and of itself, but rather D&T and the creature decks that could come behind it if it gets very popular.

As for Hushbringer, no I don't think it's particularly great even though it's a cool thought. The big issue I have is that we will only have access to it in postboard games, meaning we could be put into a bad situation with a Phyrexian Revoker naming Lightning Storm and us then having a useless card in hand with Hushbringer, even worse is if they are playing straight Pithing Needle which would be a huge blowout naming Lightning Storm. As the deck is currently constructed then its a cool idea but a bit too risky for my liking. If you want to play Hushbringer you do have some options though, siding out all the oracles and playing Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, Laboratory Maniac, or something more obscure such as Conflagrate (which does have some additional utility in this matchup) could make it possible. Then though you would have to be willing to accept the loss of a sideboard slot for an alternate win-con that still needs to function within the combo, I'd argue that is worse than just playing a plan B. A more out there solution would be to run a Gifts Ungiven package in the board with Unburial Rites and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. With that you would have a plan B (albeit a card intensive one for your board) and a board wipe that both allows you to play Hushbringer as a piece of hate (Thassa's Oracle would likely be the cut for the package post-board), and play around Archon of Emeria effectively. I won't endorse that as the most competitive solution but I feel it's certainly something to consider if D&T and the decks it brings are very prominent in your local meta. As you rightly state, the manabase we have allows us to really tinker with quite a bit here so we have no shortage of options.

In summation though I still like the matchup, it has gotten a bit closer I will concede, down from 70-30 to probably closer to 55-45 if I am being generous lacking a substantial amount of data. At the end of the day we still go over their head meaning the burden is on them to stop us not so much for us to win, if that makes any sense, I apologize if it doesn't. Archon of Emeria though is a real issue, and one that should be taken seriously, maybe even necessitating an Echoing Truth on main in certain metas. On a much different note, the BW versions are much tougher. Tidehollow Sculler wears equipment well and interacts with us in a meaningful way. There I am more concerned as we are being attacked on two axes, and while we still go over their head, they can slow us down and drain us of resources in a much more meaningful way than the mono-white builds.

Thank you for the comment, I apologize if this is hard to follow, like I have said it is nearly 2 a.m. here and I didn't want to keep you waiting. If you have further questions, or just clarification of my thoughts here, please do let me know. I plan on revisiting this tomorrow (I suppose really later today) and seeing if there is anything else I should say regarding this matchup, if there is I will certainly let you know.

Vale,

Oloro

MrFuzzykenz on All Hail Our Lord and Savior, Cthulu

1 month ago

Love the deck theme idea! Just want to say you have it listed that you have two copies of Selective Snare.

I'm going to say right off the bat that Meteorite, Diabolic Tutor, Bridge from Below, Laboratory Maniac don't belong in your deck because they are just bad cards. Although Laboratory Maniac is a fun alternative win condition, your deck simply doesn't have the mill power to achieve this and even if you did you have a greater chance of milling that him; because he's odd cost you can't use your commander to bring him back.

I am confused as to why you're discarding for graveyard strength when the only thing that benefits from having things in your graveyard is Apocalypse Demon. I want to point out that your commander Gyruda, Doom of Depths ability can only return a creature card of even mana cost from the four cards that everyone milled. So you won't be able to return anything that's already in your graveyard.

One other point I want to make is that taking the top four card from your library and things like taking putting the top card of your library {example: Deranged Assistant }into your graveyard don't count as drawing cards so Oneirophage and Chasm Skulker won't trigger.

Lastly after play testing your deck a couple times the biggest weakness this deck has is the fact that your commander is 6 mana below I'll suggest some budget mana rocks, because the faster you have you commander online the faster your deck and do kraken things ^-^ but all of these mana rocks will be better than Meteorite which is very bad.

Good Luck on your deck! Hope that was helpful!

Everflowing Chalice, Hedron Archive, Star Compass, Prophetic Prism, Prismatic Lens, Mind Stone, Worn Powerstone, Spinning Wheel, Silumgar Monument, Manalith, Mana Geode, Fountain of Ichor, Drake-Skull Cameo, Dimir Cluestone, Dimir Keyrune, Darksteel Ingot