Bottomless Pit

Enchantment

At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player discards a card at random.

LoneSniper72 on 12 Rack Diesel

1 month ago

Hey, I love some of the combos that you have in here. I noticed that someone already suggested Waste Not and I also think that it is a huge advantage having it down. Also have you considered Quest for the Nihil Stone? Oppression is also another card similar to Bottomless Pit, I've noticed that it basically makes it so people don't want to play cards so it can also hinder the game some. Another card that could be of some use is Noxious Vapors, it is super deadly against mono color decks. The only other cards that I can think of are Sangromancer and Phyrexian Arena. Sangromancer can basically single-handedly keep someone alive for a ton of turns if you get it down early. Phyrexian Arena I feel is a super competitive card for the amount of advantage it provides.

Good luck with the deck I hope you find maybe one of these suggestions useful :)

DreadKhan on 12 Rack Diesel

1 month ago

Apollo_Paladin, I'm glad you like the deck's premise, discard is a ton of fun to play. Waste Not is an interesting card, I've never actually played with it, this might be a deck to try it out in!

duchessCretina, thanks for your input! this is going to be a bit long, but you've challenged the core of my deck I feel like, so I'm obligated to offer some manner of explanation at least. Anyways, no offense taken, hope my ideas make sense to you!

I do have Hymns in my sideboard, I actually find them frustrating to play in a deck like this, which cannot win without it's Rack effects, and a one-time discard two random cards can prove insufficient discard over time. It's terrible to topdeck when people are in topdeck mode, where an enchantment can make it impossible for them to ever keep a card if they're already low. I run x4 Hymn in my Pox deck very happily, where it does win games almost by itself, but that's because the deck is able to pressure people with creature damage. In this deck, I need to people to be in a position where they are avoiding playing spells due to my early Racks/PW discard engines, but when one of those 'each upkeep' Enchantments hit the field, it becomes impossible to keep the Racks from hurting you, if I have a couple racks and 1 or 2 Discard Enchantment, people would need to be running serious card draw to not die in a couple turns, even if they were at a decent life total, 0 life can come suddenly if you're getting hit for 6 or more. Tourach himself is a really neat card, I'm mostly not sure if I want to run any creatures in here, to hopefully blank people's creature interaction. I could run him in the sideboard maybe, that'd be hilarious to board in after people are confident I'm not running any creatures and remove 'dead cards'. Anyways, it's a card I wonder about, because again in my Pox deck I run x4 Erebos's Titan to beat face vs opponents that have run out of creatures, Tourach would be worth thinking about there. The other alternative that deck has really considered was Rotting Regisaur, which has a few drawbacks compared to the Titans, even if a 7/6 is bigger than a 5/5. I actually found White one of the most frustrating opponents, many decks run lots of lands, as well as exile-based removal (so I can't use the Titan's ability/just reanimate one with Animate Dead), so Tourach would work wonders in that hard matchup.

Yeah, I think you might have a point, I could probably run a few non-basics in here for various benefits. Man-lands are probably reasonable in here (helps close in games that end up going longer somehow), as is Castle Locthwain. Worth some fiddling!

Wow, did not know about Sudden Edict, what a good fit!

If the deck had no budget limit, it might run more Lilianas, but you can only have 1 LotV out at a time, so I'm not sure it's a card I 'need' to have out to win, as is this deck tends to be pretty hard on decks that don't run high creature counts, and as for those enchantments, have you ever tried them out? I mostly grabbed Bottomless Pit when it was dirt cheap on a lark, to see how it worked. I actually hated it in the deck I'd hoped it would fit into, but eventually I built a deck vaguely similar to this one, and it wins more games than it has any right to, it's easy to get out multiple Racks, and if I Dark Ritual out a Bottomless Pit, it might be scoopy-time for some decks very quickly, while I largely don't mind it due to sheer redundancy. By their 3rd turn, you're better than a turn 1 Hymn in some ways, and if you followed it up with a Rack or two, you put your opponents in a situation where they can only afford to play a card if it either wins the game on the spot (or very, very quickly), or gains them a lot of life (relatively rare).

DreadKhan on Most TILTING DECK

5 months ago

I like enchantments or planeswalkers that can repeatedly make people discard to get an engine of sorts going, so even decks with some added draw can fall victim to Racks. Bottomless Pit Necrogen Mists Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage Liliana of the Veil are a good start at clearing out people hands, while Davriel also helps close things. The Rack and Shrieking Affliction are, as noted, very good.

I also like edict effects, so a card like Smallpox might be up your ally, but you'd have to lose the higher mana value stuff. Innocent Blood is nice, Geth's Verdict or Liliana's Triumph are worth considering. I used to use Hypnotic Specter, which was fun with Dark Ritual, which can also take cards over time if you stick with creatures.

DreadKhan on Mono Black Death Plague

5 months ago

I suspect Jeweled Lotus will backfire in cases where other people are running removal or counters for Tergrid, because getting her out early is amazing, but losing her early when you've used a Ritual to get her out can be backbreaking. 7 mana without Sol Ring or Mana Crypt is hard to manage until the game is well underway. You could still run Worn Powerstone as a way to get to your Commander faster without using Rituals. I would even think about Sol Talisman if you don't want to run top tier mana rocks.

Bottomless Pit is very amusing in a deck like this, way nastier than the also relevant Necrogen Mists, either can both pressure people's hands and cheat things into play for you with your Commander. Court of Ambition might work, and Cunning Lethemancer can also do work for you, each having a nice upside. Stronghold Rats is very useful too. I run a Discard based deck that has a Tergrid in it, and I love it when anything like this is out with Tergrid. Forced sacrifice is good too, but discard can catch something big and hard to cast that they were holding up for later, nothing like cheating in an Eldrazi off of a repeated discard effect.

trippy_mcfly on Mono Black Death Plague

6 months ago

Cool deck. I'm here to offer some suggestions after you pointed me here from your other deck.

Tergrid, God of Fright  Flip is a powerful commander and generates insane advantage in 4-player games. Let's take a look at this deck and see what it is doing, and then streamline it. I see three main objectives of this deck:

1 - RAMPING.

This is pretty much a primary objective of any commander deck, since if your only source of mana is playing one land per turn, you're going to fall way behind. Your main ramping plan for this deck is to double lands, using Cabal Coffers, Cabal Stronghold, Caged Sun, Crypt Ghast, Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power, and Nirkana Revenant. This is super cool and probably a pretty strong plan. We want to try to maximize this plan. How can we do that?

All of these cards want you to load up on basic swamps, which you did. We want to make sure we are playing a basic swamp every turn. Solemn Simulacrum is definitely a worthwhile add. Liliana of the Dark Realms is very helpful and I'm happy to see her in this deck. Often times Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is a worthwhile add for decks with Cabal Coffers. I think it is worth it here. Although you yourself don't have many non-swamps that will benefit from Urborg, you are likely going to be stealing people's lands with Tergrid, and counting those as swamps will be helpful for you.

How else can we keep getting swamps onto the battlefield to power up this strategy? Card draw. The more cards in your hand the higher the chance you will have a swamp to play every turn. Night's Whisper and Sign in Blood are great for this. Disciple of Bolas is solid too. Dread Presence loves swamps and is a must-add. I would add Phyrexian Arena, which is great card draw for you. Necropotence, one of the craziest cards in the game, is also a worthwhile addition. Not as good but worth consideration are Yawgmoth's Bargain and Null Profusion. Two other well-known card draw machines in black are Dark Confidant and Bolas's Citadel. You have some costly spells in your deck, so they might be a bit of a liability. If you want to include them, Sensei's Divining Top pairs very well with them.

Just because you are mainly ramping with land doubling doesn't mean there isn't room for other ramping as well. You have Black Market, which I have never personally tested, but is probably decent. Black has some explosive, single-turn ramp with Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, and Culling the Weak. These cards would do well in letting you get out expensive plays ahead of schedule, mainly Tergrid. Artifact ramp is also great in any deck. I would add Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Jeweled Lotus, and Jet Medallion. I would consider adding even more artifact ramp as well. Getting down Tergrid as early as turn 1 or 2 is just so good.

2 - SACRIFICE AND DISCARD.

Once you have Tergrid out, sacrifice and discard become powerful effects that let you take control of your opponent's permanents. This is insane advantage and if left unchecked for very long will win you the game. Syphon Mind while Tergrid is in play not only puts you up 4 cards in comparison to each opponent (since they each went down 1 and you went up 3), but also could net you 3 more cards if they discard permanents that then go onto your field. That's insane. Let's take a look at all the cards you have that enable Tergrid:

SACRIFICE:

Archfiend of Depravity - A one-sided, almost board wipe that repeats every turn? Pretty solid. Getting the creatures onto your field with Tergrid? That is nuts. The one issue is that some commander decks won't have that many more than 2 creatures on the field when this comes down, and if they do, then this card and/or Tergrid become a big target, but if you survive the turn, this and your commander will put you ahead so far.

Butcher of Malakir - Similar to Archfiend. If this guy sticks around for a bit, you're going to be at such an advantage. It costs 7 which is a bit high and very vulnerable to something like Mana Drain, so I wouldn't be super upset if you cut it, but it is great with Tergrid.

Gatekeeper of Malakir - This guy only costs three and steals a creature if Tergrid is on the field. Love it.

Phyrexian Obliterator - If someone is dumb enough to deal damage to this guy, then you're getting a lot of their permanents! I don't love this card for you. People will just leave it alone and then you just hit someone for 5 each turn or leave up a blocker, which is a bit slow.

Sheoldred, Whispering One - Similar to Archfiend. If this guy sticks around for a bit, you're going to be at such an advantage. It costs 7 which is a bit high and very vulnerable to something like Mana Drain, so I wouldn't be super upset if you cut it, but it is great with Tergrid.

Torment of Hailfire - Expensive and liable to be countered but if it resolves then you will get a ton of value!

Dictate of Erebos - I like it. Let's say you have 10 mana. Cast Tergrid, then somebody goes to kill him. Flash this card in. Now, you at least get 3 of your opponents creatures on the way out!

Grave Pact - I like this as well. You can't flash it in, but if you put this card on the field, then people will have to kill this before Tergrid comes down or else end up giving you their creatures.

The Eldest Reborn - Immediate impact with Tergrid on the field, pretty good value on its own. Definitely a keep.

DISCARD:

Liliana, Defiant Necromancer - You need to flip her first, but once flipped she is great.

Syphon Mind - Great.

Torment of Hailfire - Expensive and liable to be countered but if it resolves then you will get a ton of value!

The Eldest Reborn - Immediate impact with Tergrid on the field, pretty good value on its own. Definitely a keep.

... and that's it. We need more cards that are busted with Tergrid! The following would be great adds to your deck: Smallpox, Dark Deal, Liliana's Triumph, Plaguecrafter, Soul Shatter, Mire in Misery, Innocent Blood, Vona's Hunger, Death Cloud, Burglar Rat, Demon's Disciple, Fleshbag Marauder, Elderfang Disciple, Liliana, Waker of the Dead, Bottomless Pit, Fraying Omnipotence, Rotting Rats, Cunning Lethemancer, Merciless Executioner, and a personal favorite: Smokestack.

Notice that all of these cards are typically even trades (ex: I play Elderfang Disciple, going down 1 card, everyone else goes down 1 card.) These aren't great on their own since it costs you mana to do so, and, in the case of discard and sacrifice, the opponent gets to choose an asset that they are least upset to get rid of, making them actually below-even trades. However, they become insanely busted with Tergrid. (ex: I play Elderfang Disciple, going down 1 card in hand for a measly 1/1. But, I get a Carpet of Flowers, basic plains, and Birds of Paradise on my field? Now that's an amazing play). Therefore, the ones that are recurring are better, since they give you more chances to make sure they resolve while Tergrid is on the field. (ex: I play Cunning Lethemancer and my opponent kills Tergrid. Later in the turn I play Tergrid again, albeit for 7 mana now due to commander tax. Next turn, with the Lethemancer trigger, I get some great value!)

Here are some other cards that work well with Tergrid, although they only target one opponent: Sudden Edict, Hellish Rebuke, Pharika's Libation, Diabolic Edict, Duress, Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach, Chain of Smog, Despise, and Divest.

Notice that in the absence of Tergrid, these cards are negative trades. They set you and an opponent back by putting you both down one card. The other two opponents are left untouched. Seeing them early in the game is not particularly helpful since you'd rather spend the early game ramping. They are great and slowing down whoever is winning, but at the expense of your own board. There is a trade-off here, since these can be leveraged politically. "Each opponent discards a card"" can give you tons of value with Tergrid on the field but makes you 3 enemies. "Target opponent discards a card"" gives you not as much value in general but you can leverage this to make someone else the common enemy or make a deal with a player ("if you don't attack me next turn I won't target you with my Duress"). Things like Duress can also target specific cards, which is an added benefit for you and an added detriment to the opponent.

I would run some from each category, probably with an emphasis on maximizing Tergrid value.

3 - DRAIN AND GAIN.

Blood Artist and other cards gain you one life and drain your opponent one life. This is cool and certainly an interesting archetype of a deck. It doesn't synergize with Tergrid particularly well. I personally would not use this strategy at all in this deck and maximize the Tergrid plan. However, Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond is an awesome combo and an unexpected way to finish the game for you while people are busy dealing with Tergrid. If you want to keep this, I would trim some of the other cards, such as Exsanguinate and maybe Underworld Dreams.


So, now that we know what the 3 objectives are, and have maybe cut the third, we have a bit more of a plan. I've suggested adding some card draw and mana rocks for ramp, and tons more Tergrid synergy. What are the cuts? I would say anything that doesn't fit in with the objectives, so basically any card I haven't mentioned already, unless it gives great value on its own. I'll go through some:

Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are incredible cards and provide great value. Diabolic Tutor, Scheming Symmetry, and Shrouded Lore are worse tutor effects and should probably be moved to the maybe board. Sudden Spoiling is interesting and stops somebody from comboing off on their turn so is probably worth it. Reanimate is good value and should probably stay, same with Animate Dead. Demonic Vigor protects creatures but not Tergrid, unless you want him going to your hand. This is risky but probably fine. I could see him getting countered and then removed from your graveyard which puts you back majorly, but I could also see you avoiding commander tax. Worth looking into. Undying Evil is strictly better since it has instant speed and keeps him on the field. We might also want to protect him with Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots

Coffin Queen is too expensive and vulnerable. Drana, Liberator of Malakir is cool for aggressive strategies and can help you close out the game but is out of place in this deck. Falkenrath Noble is an overcosted Blood Artist. Gonti, Lord of Luxury is a value creature that if you can get his ETB many times, which your deck can't really do. Grave Titan isn't worth it in this deck. Gravedigger is fine but might be a bit slow. Helldozer is probably not worth it unless you want to pick on somebody lol. Korlash, Heir to Blackblade is not worth it. Massacre Wurm might not be worth it. Nighthowler isn't worth it. Opposition Agent is always a good add. Phage the Untouchable is too slow and vulnerable. Sepulchral Primordial might not be worth it. Skirsdag High Priest is probably not worth it. Syr Konrad, the Grim is not worth it. Wight of Precinct Six is not worth it. Tainted Strike is not worth it. Lashwrithe is not worth it. That's about 15 cuts right there.

Props to you for building Tergrid and having an interesting ramp strategy. I think if you go more in on the Tergrid plan by cutting unrelated cards for cards that ramp or are good with Tergrid then your deck will be a lot more reliable. After all, the most fun part of this deck is going off with Tergrid!

Hope this helps.

Prominence2Black on Disruptive Discard

11 months ago

Hey man, thanks for checking this out. I actually have Contamination on the way to Aus from the States and I think Bitterblossom would be a great inclusion, although pricey haha.

This deck as it's currently listed played a tad slow, and didn't quite provide answers to the questions that our playgroup's meta was asking. In saying that, with the right first hand draw being able to put Tinybones, Trinket Thief on the table with a discard engine like Bottomless Pit or Necrogen Mists by turn 2 provides a massive headstart in terms of card advantage as you're also removing opponent's cards increasing the card defecit.

The real value in the deck comes from the early oppressive plays like Oppression and painful quandry.

I'm reworking this as we speak so the updated list will be up soon. The creatures very seldom provided any real threat at the table and as such I am going to cull the number of inclusions. Your suggested Bitterblossom should balance this a little and will provide much needed chumps as aggressive plays from opponents with fliers whittle my life total down to a point where Ad Nauseam , Necropotence and Dark Confidant become pretty risky.

ShaDoWz_6677 on Nathy poo - Dobby is a free elf 2.0

1 year ago

Okay so, I made a list of stuff you can get rid of from the deck. I've played Nath Stax in the past. Craterhoof should not be your win con. You need the Shepherd from Jumpstart since he's basically the win con now for Nath stax.

Caustic Caterpillar , Reclamation Sage The Abyss Necrogen Mists Bottomless Pit Descent into Madness Allosaurus Shepherd are all great cards to add into this deck. I suggest looking for them for the deck to make it go faster.

Also, make sure to look at my Nath Stax deck here on TappedOut!

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