Words of Waste

Words of Waste


(1): The next time you would draw a card this turn, each opponent discards a card instead.

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Words of Waste Discussion

MLS91 on Crippling Fear

1 week ago

that was pretty much my go to for this as well, glad that despite our randomly timed conversations we have generally the same ideas in mind, That being said mindstone will take place of the key. otherwise there are a couple extra cards and avenues i was wanting to take that I haven't been able to find the space for, again of course we'll debate over the suggestions/cuts but the things in mind that I have are as follows

Geth's Grimoire & Words of Waste replace Maralen and Opposition Agent... ...beyond that im looking for more low to the ground and maintenance-y things such as Necrogen Mists, Sign in Blood/card draw(Ancient Craving-esqe) or even more abilities like Dying to Serve.

KibaAlpha on Liesa's L.I.P.S

3 months ago


What theme to my Orzhov decks would you be seeing? LoL. I honestly don't know who the "Dream Orzhov Girl" is. Enlighten me.

Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker is a nice suggestion. I'll have to test it out. I did build to hopefully produce enough mana recast my commander should she become a magnet for removal.

I'm not sure about the Dark Prophecy and Words of Waste timing. I'll have to look in to that one.

Thank you for the suggestions. They are appreciated.

Necrosis24 on Karazikar Discussion

5 months ago

I think a really strong card for this deck would be Words of Waste seeing as this deck will likely be built with cards like Fumiko the Lowblood you will be drawing quite a few cards so you can instead get rid of your opponents' hands and control the board easier.

Other cards to consider are: Fiendish Duo, Calculating Lich, Frenzied Saddlebrute, Frontier Warmonger, Kardur, Doomscourge

You can also use Conjurer's Closet to utilize that ETB a bit more.

This is all I got off the top of my head EDH Rec is always a good source for cards you might've missed.

Romer on One with Nothing

6 months ago

Thanks for the suggestions KayneMarco! I've now added Words of Waste but I'm holding off on Nezumi Shortfang  Flip - it fits perfectly, but I already have cards with similar effects (like Wheel of Torture) and it's so hard to fit more cards in.

Glad you appreciate how terribly evil this is, megaquazoid ;)

bradtheimpaler13: I aim for discard effects that impact only opponents where possible but a lot of my discard impacts everyone. Still, that means in a rotation around the table, my opponents combined do more discarding than I do so while Bone Miser would net me some advantage, it's not as much as some other effects I have like Waste Not, Asylum Visitor or Noetic Scales.

DemMeowsephs, Necrogen Spellbomb absolutely fits thematically but using a whole card to make a single opponent discard 1 feels like a bad trade. I prefer to find permanents with ongoing discard effects, or that make all opponents/players discard. It's also tough finding room considering all the new discard effects lately... which is a good problem to have, really.

BalkanDS on Haha Trust Me Dude, I'll Help You

8 months ago

Words of Waste my guy, every time you draw which should be a lot you pay 1 and have all opponents discard instead

zAzen7977 on TINY PUNISHER - Discard/Stax [cEDH Primer MH2]

10 months ago

Hey Nyrmak and theindigoeffect, you bring up really important points about how to distribute discard effects in multiplayer games. The trick is reading the room and knowing which players to antagonize and when. If you attract too much hate, one or more players will gang up on you and it will be difficult to handle them all simultaneously.

Ultimately the goal is to use as little mana as possible to kill each player. To do that you want each player to have 0 cards in hand, so you can do 10 damage to each player with Tinybones for a single activation cost. Unless other players are constantly drawing cards with card effects, organically each player should eventually run out of cards in hand as they play lands and spells.

Once you trigger Tinybones once, each player will suddenly realize you are the biggest threat on the table. So ideally you want to set up the board to lock it down before you pull the trigger. Ideally you’ll want to start the game or tutor for permanents that make each player discard every turn, including Anvil of Bogardan , Bottomless Pit , Necrogen Mists , Chains of Mephistopheles , Oppression , Words of Waste , and Liliana of the Veil (although she is easier to remove). Other non-permanent options for making each opponent discard are Vicious Rumors , Delirium Skeins , and retracing Raven's Crime . All this discarding during each player’s turn will allow you to draw lots of cards with Tinybones. Once each player is down to only a few cards in hand, that’s when you target individual players with the most cards with discard spells to get them down to 0 cards. Once your opponents are forced to top-deck every turn, it will usually be too late for them to escape.

Obviously this is easier said that done, but that’s what makes this deck so fun to pilot!

zAzen7977 on TINY PUNISHER - Discard/Stax [cEDH Primer MH2]

1 year ago

Hey jaymc1130, thank you for your input!! I agree that Geth's Grimoire is very effective with Words of Waste. I initially questioned whether to include the Grimoire because of its cost, but your explanation sealed the deal for me.

Before I can answer your question in detail, I need to test the deck out more. I made several changes as suggested by abby315 and I think the deck is stronger now. I have encountered a lot of graveyard hate recently, and most of the other Black, Red, and/or Green discard-oriented decks I have come across use reanimation or depend on the graveyard in some way. I am attempting a different strategy with this deck to mitigate this weakness. Library of Leng is especially useful because it allows you to protect your discarded cards from Planar Void, etc. and draw them back at will with Necropotence.

Abzan is an interesting color combination for discard I haven’t explored before. I like your list and I found the comments very informative as well. While I agree with the analysis on your deck page regarding mono-color EDH builds (this is my first attempt at Mono-Black), I think Tinybones presents a unique situation due to its cost (playable turn 1), built-in draw engine, and win-con rolled into one. Put this together with consistent mana sources and a low mana curve, and together this may be a winning combination. When I have done more testing I will definitely let you know.

jaymc1130 on Abzan Attrition

1 year ago


As a first go at porting a discard control concept into additional colors there's still a long way to go before I think this idea could be anywhere near as refined as the other 20 or 30 decks I regularly play in cEDH settings. Any scrap of information or knowledge is going to be helpful in getting this closer to where I'd like it to be and I'm happy to see I asked questions of the right people since I've now got some additional resources to take a look at for inspiration. Much appreciated.

As far as the question of why not just Nath Stax, well, it's been done. It's a fairly standardized list at this point and, in true competitive settings the deck is pretty lackluster (in fact very lackluster), posting a sub 15% win rate according to our data with just a hair under 100 total games recorded. Most dedicated stax concepts perform at a relatively similar level in competitive settings and we've accumulated well over 2000 games worth of tracked data within our playgroup at this point in the last almost 3 years. Mostly the ineffectiveness of these types of concepts comes from their inability to develop advantageous board states as quickly as the most powerful contenders in the meta (Nath actually does ok at this with access to green ramp sources), but also how slow and inconsistent many stax type pieces are in terms of performance. The best performing pieces are asymmetrical in effect and hate out universal lines of play that lead to advantageous game states for any deck (limiting card draw, limiting library searches, limiting graveyard access, limiting usability of a deck's ramp sources). At this point that's really the reason for choosing Tymna more than anything else, she's a proven commodity with a measurable net positive expected win rate value that enables play along the axis of attrition by acquiring additional resources to match opposing decks (the draw trigger is a very nice complement to the powerhouse control engine that is Geth's Grimoire+Words of Waste as well as it provides a means of consistently engaging the mass discard lines of play the turn those cards are played since she'll often be out on turn 2, though this play pattern is currently slower than our data suggests is competitively ideal).

I'm definitely not satisfied yet with a "no combo win line" list, that just strikes me as a stretch. There are some decks that do manage to perform decently with a primarily combat based game plan (Yuriko and Najeela certainly come to mind, though both prove the concept falls short of top tier) and this list might be capable of a similar feat, but it feels like there should be some combo oriented options that fit within the concept to run as side line game plans. I've definitely got some Raz reanimation lines on my radar for testing, the colors allow access to some other reanimation loop lines as well.

The Drannith Mask lock combo stikes me as interesting. I'll have to give that option a few looks in testing as well. My gut tells me that dividing attention to multiple lock out concepts will decrease overall deck performance consistency, but there's really no way to truly tell without getting in some games and acquiring some data.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Tinybones in mono black shells as well mate, there are certainly issues mono colored decks have from a competitive standpoint and I haven't worked with mono black enough to know these drawbacks as intimately as I do for mono green or mono blue.

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