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At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player discards a card.
Necrogen Mists Discussion
1 week ago
I'm SO gonna build this as my first oath-breaker deck! I am concerned though that this format might end up becoming too fast for this deck archetype to keep up :/ Otherwise i think a few cards i'd consider would be Liliana of the Veil , Death Cloud , Nezumi Shortfang , Oppression , Necrogen Mists (maybe to replace earthquake), Funeral Charm to act as instant speed discard or even Underworld Dreams to really put a clock on them! I'm so excited for this deck!
1 week ago
Coming up with a stax ban list. First pass -
Dream Tides Energy Flux Invoke Prejudice Mudslide Nether Void War Tax Contamination Death Cloud Dictate of Erebos Grave Pact Sheoldred, Whispering One Tainted AEther Decree of Annihilation Martyr's Bond Smokestack Razia's Purification Null Rod Stony Silence Words of Wind Creeping Dread Embargo Manabarbs Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker Painful Quandary Pestilence Pestilence Demon Pyrohemia Jace, Unraveler of Secrets Gaddock Teeg Iona, Shield of Emeria Kaervek the Merciless Void Winnower Ward of Bones Catastrophe Jokulhaups Lethal Vapors Dueling Grounds Ensnaring Bridge Silent Arbiter Leovold, Emissary of Trest Back to Basics Freyalise's Winds Hokori, Dust Drinker Mist of Stagnation Rising Waters Stasis Static Orb Tangle Wire Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger Winter Orb Blood Moon Destructive Flow Equipoise Helldozer Land Equilibrium Magus of the Moon Mana Vortex Ruination Bottomless Pit Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur Mind Slash Necrogen Mists Oppression Words of Waste Cursed Totem Hushwing Gryff Linvala, Keeper of Silence Portcullis Torpor Orb Ravages of War Armageddon Wildfire
1 month ago
Hey, I really appreciate the feedback, ! I'm pretty new to 8-rack style decks so I was kinda going in blind. I guess the fact that it's multiplayer can kind of mitigate the "dead discard" problem inherent in the strategy, so I think I agree with you on the Howling Mine effects. Necrogen Mists is definitely a card I couldn't think of that's going in, and I like the sound of Pack Rat as well. And the subtle card advantage from Dakmor Salvage sounds perfect. I'll try cutting the card draw stuff for those... As for Lili and Bridge, I'm trying to keep the deck at least slightly budget-friendly, so for now I think they'll live in the maybeboard/upgrades section with Chains of Mephistopheles :D Thanks a ton for the suggestions, really!
1 month ago
I think Temple Bell / Howling Mine always sound like a good idea but ultimately become your undoing; especially in a multiplayer game... someone is gonna end up drawing/playing something you cant deal with and or combo off (thats my opinion)... in a 1V1 game it could work with blowing up lands with Sinkhole / Strip Mine and all that kinda fun stuff; and id say go the opposite rout of The Rack / Shrieking Affliction and go with Black Vise / Ebony Owl Netsuke .
I suggest Necrogen Mists to keep hands empty and Dakmor Salvage for its synergy with Smallpox / Raven's Crime ... for some protection Ensnaring Bridge can help keep creatures from plowing you over and Pack Rat / Zombie Infestation can be good for getting value from "dead" discard spells.... there is also the queen of 8-Rack herself Liliana of the Veil .
1 month ago
Love this recipe! Of course the removal is up to you, but I would also consider Blackmail , and at 5$ a piece you could consider Inquisition of Kozilek . I love Davriel because he can cover that turn three with a great -1 and a rack effect built in.
dingusdingo on Flex
2 months ago
It is true that there are infinite "what ifs" in a game as open as Magic, but we know that there are certain cards we can expect to see in the most competitive formats. If we look at what is currently being run and why its effective, we can better prepare our decks to be more resilient against them.
Your deck tries to combo out by ramping mana, drawing cards, and playing into a win-con. There are going to be certain styles of decks that are more prone to shutting you off, which is why I'm bringing up these strategies in particular. Since your combo window is turns 4-6, you need to be worried about two things in cEDH. The first is people comboing out faster than you. We see this in decks such as Gitrog, Godo Helm, or even Grenzo. When these decks are consistently busting their combo turn 2-3, you need to answer or lose. Relying on other players to put a stop to a win attempt will prove unreliable, which is why its so important that you slot removal. Your turn 4/5/6 answer does no good when the game is over by turn 2/3. If you have no way to turn off their win, you are asking them to goldfish to a victory on you.
The second type of decks that will prove problematic for a turn 4-6 combo deck is stax, because their deck is designed to deprive you of resources and push your combo window so far back that you are unable to combo before they have won. They drop very fast and efficient heavy mana rocks, and then put down tax effects to make you unable to play. This specific style of deck can be hard for your build because they can lock you out of playing your draw spells, they can steal your draws, or simply prevent your draws altogether.
Let me give an example to show you what I mean.
Stax Example Show
You take your second turn, you play another land, and are unable to play due to Trinisphere
Your opponent takes their second turn, playing a fetchland into Underground Sea . Tap tomb to make , untapping Grim Monolith with Voltaic Key , leaving . Tap Monolith up to , use sea and opal to get to . Drop Tangle Wire then Sphere of Resistance
You take your third turn. You tap your two lands to Tanglewire, play a third land, and are still unable to play due to Trinisphere .
Your opponents third turn, they drop Tangle wire to 3 before tapping tanglewire sphere and ancient tomb. They drop any land, use it for voltaic key to Grim Monolith, before using monolith for and opal for / for Timetwister / Wheel of Fortune / Windfall , gaining them 7 shiny new cards while making you lose your mulligan card quality opening hand. They pass, knowing you still can't play anything
Your fourth turn, you have to tap all 3 untapped lands to Tangle Wire , you play a land, and pass. You have basically been timewalked 3 turns in a row.
Your opponent starts their fourth turn, dropping Tangle wire to 2 before tapping wire and sphere of resistance to Tangle wire. They are now free to drop more stax pieces ( Nether Void Winter Orb Static Orb Thorn of Amethyst Lodestone Golem Stasis ), play whatever commander/s they run, tutor up very cheap and cost effective winning combos, or establish a game-winning board presence that leads to their game winning combos.
Your fifth turn starts, you tap two lands to Tangle Wire , and if you play a fifth land. You have 3 untapped, so you might be able to play a spell assuming they haven't dropped anymore stax pieces and aren't holding any counterspells. Note that you can only play a 1 or 2 cmc spell, Sphere of Resistance is out, so your commander is still a no-go, and Trinisphere ensures you are only getting 1 spell max here no matter what. Its more likely than not with your current build you won't be able to play any spells here at all because your average CMC is so high. You've basically been time walked 4 turns in a row.
Stax is a very common archetype in the competitive scene, which is why its so important that you try to stax-proof your deck. It looks to me as if stax can cause serious problems for you.
On top of taxing stax, there's another type that may shut your deck off. Heavy discard. An early Sire Of Insanity can hose your whole game, while Mindslicer can impact your card advantage enough to cause a loss. Multiple discard effects like Necrogen Mists Bottomless Pit Oppression landing by turn 2 will make your build extremely sad (Turn 1 Dark Ritual Cabal Ritual Mana Crypt + any producing land and drop two discard enchantments). Chains of Mephistopheles turns off all your big draws, so does Alms Collector or Notion Thief
Another set of cards I would recommend taking a peek at is recursion. It can help against discard effects that would otherwise shut you off, or serve as a 2nd/3rd/4th copy of your draw spell. Wildest Dreams would work surprisingly well in your deck, the mana aspect is negligible and lets you reuse multiple big draw spells from your graveyard, as well as recover from wipes. Nostalgic Dreams is arguably worse with the additional cost, but can translate extra basics tutored by your 3 cmc ramp spells into more draws. Regrowth is also fantastic.
I hope you don't mind the close inspection! I really enjoy your build, I'm just curious to know if you run into these cards and how you interact with them. Almost all the stax cards I linked are included in tournament proven cEDH lists with various commanders, so they're cards that are in the meta and will be played.
2 months ago
Made a quick update for the deck addressing the comments I said above! Still considering adding in Smoke and more boardwipes, but for now I've removed Necrogen Mists , Sire Of Insanity , and Pain Magnification to add in Pestilence , Glacial Chasm , and Expedition Map .
Glacial Chasm should help us stay alive, Pestilence should help keep the board clean of creatures with <4 toughness, and Expedition Map should help us find Cabal Coffers or Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to help our mana out.
I'm going to see how these changes go and then maybe change the deck a bit more after some testing.
2 months ago
speedykoala Glad you're enjoying it! Always makes me happy to hear comments like that.
Honestly that's been something I've been struggling with too. The two biggest issues I've been having are getting the deck online quick enough and dealing with the table hate.
Since a lot of the major cards in this deck are 5 CMC or higher, it can take a bit to actually start dealing the damage I want to do with this deck. I tried adding in more ramp to deal with this, but maybe even more is needed.
But getting back to your question; I think a mixture of both suggestions would be best.
Politics never hurts unless you really abuse it and overdo it. Any sort of actions you can take to throw the heat off of you are going to be valuable in any deck you play. Even if it means sandbagging a couple of cards back in your hand so that you don't seem like a threat until you have an explosive turn then it might be worth it. Given that this deck deals a lot of its damage in small increments it might not be possible to realistically take this route often, but it might be worth considering trying to combo Manabarbs with a damage doubler instead of throwing it down on turn 4. Or maybe instead just hold your pieces until someone else at the table becomes an established threat so that their eyes aren't on you.
As far as pillowfort goes, there are definitely some pieces that you could run that aren't currently in this deck just because I couldn't find the space for them. Smoke , Glacial Chasm , and Dread are all perfectly good options to be running in this deck to discourage attackers. With the addition of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Cabal Coffers , and Crypt Ghast I think Pestilence could be a decent option to run alongside Pyrohemia to help keep the board clean. Plus there are plenty of other boardwipes like Damnation , Life's Finale , and Chain Reaction that this deck isn't currently running but wouldn't be bad options since the deck is pretty creature-lite.
I don't know how you're feeling about the discard package in the deck but I think I might tone it down a bit. It brings a lot of hate and doesn't accomplish what I hoped it would. I thought it would reduce the amount of options people had to deal with Xantcha and incentivize them to use her activated ability more. In my experience it just causes people to want to attack me more instead. So I'm considering removing Sire Of Insanity , Necrogen Mists , and maybe either Pox or Fraying Omnipotence .
Hope this helped a bit! Sorry I couldn't give a better answer, still ironing out the kinks myself.
Necrogen Mists occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%