|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander 2014 (C14)||Rare|
|Duel Decks: Divine vs. Demonic (DDC)||Rare|
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Creature — Angel
When Twilight Shepherd enters the battlefield, return to your hand all cards in your graveyard put there from play this turn.
Persist (When this creature is put into a graveyard from play, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to play under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
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|Have (19)||Tiddilywinkus , ironax , GoldGhost012 , miracle , pskinn01 , HR19 , TheAlmostHero , Swamy , orzhov_is_relatively_okay819 , Yawkcorb , Psycheretic , sonnet666 , Mousemke , Ashy , switchkill65 , Dr_Jay , TehDelta , mziter501 , sneferie|
Twilight Shepherd Discussion
6 days ago
Cards I think are very good in this deck:
Blade of Selves, Sunbird's Invocation, Nahiri, the Harbinger - These synergize with your game plan of casting a bunch of big Angels and beating down with them. They're also just individually powerful cards.
Cards I would heavily consider cutting:
- Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit - While the deck has a lot of nontoken creatures, most of the counters will end up on utility creatures, not Angels, and you don't have any synergy with +1/+1 counters.
- Blaze Commando - You have 5 total sorcery spells that deal damage, and all but Disaster Radius and Meteor Blast kill all your Elementals (and probably the Commando). It just isn't a fit for this deck.
- Firemane Angel - This card is just a lot of mana for an underwhelming creature. It's recursive, but you already have Defy Death and Gift of Immortality to recur creatures, and you're running so many big creatures that it's not a huge concern.
- Firemane Avenger - I'm not super sure on this one (it might be alright), but it feels very low-impact, and if you can attack with three creatures safely, you're probably in a position where you don't need a free Lightning Helix. This is probably one of the last cuts to make.
- Flamewright - This card just isn't doing anything this deck wants.
- Fumiko the Lowblood - Maybe I'm wrong, but this just doesn't seem like an effect this deck needs, especially after cutting the Humans side of the deck.
- Glory-Bound Initiate - Again, just too low-impact for Commander.
- Goldnight Castigator - I misremembered this one - it's not as good as I thought it was. Probably too low-impact, and dangerous (it puts a big target on your head when you take double damage).
- Hanweir Lancer - Do you really need first strike when all your creatures are probably better than anything your opponents will likely have? It beats deathtouch, but so does indestructible, and that also protects the creature from removal. We can do better.
- Hero of Oxid Ridge - Are 1-power creatures blocking Angels that often? Probably not. Without that relevant clause, this is a 4/2 with battle cry - not very relevant for a big creature deck. And it's not on theme.
- Iroas's Champion - See Glory-Bound Initiate.
- Jareth, Leonine Titan - This card is okay, but we can probably fill this slot with a better creature for the deck. One of the last cuts, most likely.
- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer - This effect is powerful, but we aren't heavy on artifacts, so metalcraft is unreliable, and we aren't a deck that can make the best use out of it.
- Odric, Lunarch Marshal - We can get something very similar with Angelic Skirmisher, which is an Angel and does something on an empty board.
- Shepherd of the Lost - See Glory-Bound Initiate.
- Skyknight Legionnaire - See you-know-what.
- Sun Titan - This guy is awesome, but he's not likely to bring back much of value in a deck filled to the brim with big Angels.
- Thalia, Heretic Cathar - Is this an effect this deck really wants? If it is, Blind Obedience is an enchantment that hits artifacts instead of nonbasics, and also extorts (It is legal in this deck).
- Truefire Paladin See...yawn
- Victory's Herald - We're an ANGEL deck! We don't need to give our creatures FLYING! In all seriousness, this is very redundant with a deck made up of 30% fliers, 30% support spells, and 40% mana.
- Deathrender - This card is just kinda expensive and difficult to use, and it only lets us cheat out Angels we can just cast anyway.
- Banishing Light - This is a small upgrade, but Grasp of Fate is probably just better.
- Citadel Siege - This card draws a bunch of hate, but isn't so impactful it wins us the game (like Sunbird's Invocation). We can do much better.
- Curse of the Nightly Hunt - Like Fumiko the Lowblood, I'm not convinced we want this effect.
- Faith's Fetters - I'd rather run something more like Banishing Light as enchantment-based removal, because it deals with static abilities like, for example, Angel of Invention.
- Battle Hymn - This card is both really awkward (makes red mana when most of our expensive stuff is white) and not actually going to produce much mana outside of a token deck. We really don't need an effect like this one.
- Martial Glory - Our creatures are already big, so do we really need a combat trick to make them good? I don't think so.
- Ancient Amphitheater - We aren't running Giant tribal, so this is just a worse Wind-Scarred Crag 95% of the time. I'd rather run a basic, or a Reliquary Tower or something.
- Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse, Vivid Crag, Vivid Meadow - We're a 2-color deck - we really don't need to run what amount to tapped basics most of the time.
Cards I'm unsure about:
- The token cards: Adriana, Captain of the Guard, Sunhome Guildmage, Assemble the Legion, Cathars' Crusade - These cards are all great (and gave me an idea for a deck to build) but I don't think they're a fit for this deck. Either expand on the token plan, or cut these.
- Emancipation Angel - I don't think we need this? If it had flash, I'm all for it, but as it is I don't think we want to bounce our expensive creatures.
- Thalia's Lancers - I don't think we have enough legendary permanents that this is worth playing. If you end up adding more, then go for it.
- Meteor Blast - We're running white - we can get less expensive one-sided boardwipes, I feel.
- Nevermore - If we end up running ways to tutor up enchantments, this is a great silver bullet answer to almost anything, but even in that case, I think Gideon's Intervention is better most of the time. Maybe you run both?
Cards I recommend:
- "Voltron" cards - Since Anya can easily become indestructible and is already evasive, she's a good candidate for winning with commander damage. Loxodon Warhammer is already in the deck, as is Lightning Greaves, so we've got a head start. Some cards I'd recommend are:
- Swiftfoot Boots - Basically Lightning Greaves, but you can target the creature. If you intend to pile a bunch of equipment on Anya this is probably a better option.
- Grappling Hook - Gives Anya double strike, as well as helping you get rid of problem creatures (Remember Anya has flying, so a nonflier can't block her).
- Argentum Armor - Much like the Hook, this makes Anya a serious threat while helping deal with problematic permanents.
- Assault Suit - Get Anya attacking on everyone else's turns, too!
- Champion's Helm - Protects Anya while also making her big.
- Godsend - A bit pricy, but discourages opponents from attacking into or blocking Anya, and a combo with Grappling Hook
- Inquisitor's Flail - Anya's indestructible, so this card's downside is completely meaningless.
- Pariah's Shield - When equipped to Anya, this basically makes you invincible.
- Puresteel Paladin - If you go hard on the Equipment theme, this guy will put in work. Probably not the best if you stick with Angels, though.
- Stoneforge Masterwork - This one should be obvious.
- Steelshaper's Gift - Again, if you go deep with Equipment, consider this.
- Sword of the Animist - Ramp sword? Ramp sword.
- Sword of Vengeance - Give Anya every keyword ever printed on a creature. And +2/+0!
- Worldslayer - This one is just to silly to not bring up.
- Herald's Horn - Makes your Angels cheaper, and helps you draw them.
- Door of Destinies - This should be fairly obvious.
- Kindred Charge - This card will win you games, I guarantee it. Especially with stuff like Angel of Serenity.
- Vanquisher's Banner - Similar to Herald's Horn. Makes your Angels big instead of cheap.
- Angel of Sanctions - Banishing Light on a stick? That you can use twice? Seems good.
- Angel of the Dire Hour - Get 'em! Just don't play this on your combat phase.
- Angelic Skirmisher - Give your team some nice abilities, and on an Angel to boot!
- Archangel of Tithes - Makes life hard for token decks and discourages attacks.
- Aurelia, the Warleader - How are you not already running this? Well, whatever, I won't judge.
- Basandra, Battle Seraph - Prevents opponents getting tricky in combat, and helps deal with problematic utility creatures that are otherwise hard to get rid of.
- Exquisite Archangel - Saves you from death once, which damn well better be enough.
- Karmic Guide - Recurs your big threats which would otherwise rot in your graveyard forever.
- Linvala, Keeper of Silence - A hefty price tag, but an upgrade to think about. Completely shuts down powerful utility creatures and mana dorks (it doesn't care whether the ability is a mana ability).
- Platinum Angel - You literally can't lose. The purpose is obvious, although the target on your head is just as visible.
- Reya Dawnbringer - Basically a repeated Karmic Guide - who wouldn't love to make their Angels unkillable?
- Twilight Shepherd - Having this card sitting on the battlefield makes nobody want to boardwipe, since you just get all your creatures back anyway.
- Avacyn, Angel of Hope - Expensive, but well worth the price - it's really hard to deal with an indestructible field of anything, let alone big fliers.
- Hour of Devastation - Three mana boardwipes are quite strong, and this card almost always costs three mana in Commander. This one even hits artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers!
- Boros Charm - A versatile spell that can save you from a boardwipe, make an Angel a major threat, or just burn someone out of the game, if need be.
- Master Warcraft - Completely blowing out two opponents seems well worth four mana to me! If need be, it can even just be a Fog.
- Wear / Tear - Versatile artifact and enchantment removal.
- Return to Dust - Just like Wear / Tear. I put this one in basically every white deck I make.
- Swords to Plowshares - Spot removal that deals with just about any creature.
- Grand Abolisher - We wouldn't want any pesky blue mages countering our Angels, would we? Also has the upside of preventing combat trickery on your turn.
On the manabase:
I like that you put in so many mana rocks and lands (a lot of first-time deck builders might skimp in this regard) but the colors are a bit strange. You have more red sources than white, despite the fact you have more white cards than red. I would cut a few Mountains and replace them with Plains.
Obviously you can't run all of these recommendations, but pick the ones you like the best to fill the empty slots. Overall, I quite like the premise of the deck, but it could use a lot of polish.
3 months ago
Beseech the Queen Increasing Ambition Enlightened Tutor Diabolic IntentResolute Archangel Subjugator Angel Sublime Archangel Angel of Finality Archangel Avacyn Flip Crypt Angel Exquisite Archangel Blinding AngelAvaricious Dragon Dragon Mage Dragonmaster Outcast Dragonlord KolaghanHoard-Smelter Dragon Knollspine Dragon Mana-Charged Dragon Siege DragonIndulgent Tormentor Overseer of the Damned Razaketh, the FoulbloodedSire Of Insanity Reya Dawnbringer Gamble Mortify Legion's InitiativeBuried Alive Animate Dead Twilight Shepherd Disciple of BolasPath to Exile Razia's Purification Fellwar Stone Coldsteel HeartTalisman of Indulgence Sunforger Sphere of the Suns CataclysmDesolation Angel Chrome Mox Clifftop Retreat Exotic OrchardHall of the Bandit Lord Nomad Outpost City of Brass Mana ConfluenceSpinerock Knoll Tainted Field Tainted Peak Rocky Tar PitPhyrexian Reclamation Entomb Dance of the Dead Necromancy Mimic VatReforge the Soul Magus of the Wheel Winds of Change Sensei's Divining Top Flamekin Village Toxic Deluge Damnation Crux of FateReflecting Pool Forbidden Orchard
3 months ago
Looked it up a little more just now. Dauntless Escort and Loxodon Hierarch also offer nice flexible protection. Twilight Shepherd, Ghostway, Sudden Disappearance are nice for boardwipes too, and Nim Deathmantle and Mimic Vat can also conditionally be pretty nice.
5 months ago
Twilight Shepherd is best friends with Teysa.
Baleful Eidolon early defense, and boosting to boot.
Belfry Spirit was made for teysa's ability.
Bygone Bishop gives great drawpower.
Celestial Kirin can be rediculously fun.
Crypt Ghast, ramp and extort, anyone?
Disowned Ancestor good early blocker that can grow.
Divinity of Pride just amazing!
Drogskol Cavalry makes spirits ang goves you life for it.
Ghost Council of Orzhova the OG Orzhov baddie.
Ghostblade Eidolon two words: double strike...
He Who Hungers hand-hate
Hopeful Eidolon early lifegain and boosting.
Infernal Kirin more hand hate
Kami of False Hope my favourite white 1-drop, and for a good reason.
Karlov of the Ghost Council if you have a subtheme of lifegain, then this guys is the BOMB
Kataki, War's Wage if you're not big on artifacts yourself, this guys is fantastic.
Kokusho, the Evening Star just amazing
Kyoki, Sanity's Eclipse even better hand hate
Lantern Kami cheap early air-control
Myojin of Cleansing Fire might be expensive, but I had to mention him.
Nikko-Onna solid enchantment hate
Obzedat, Ghost Council they're back. And better
Oyobi, Who Split the Heavens big beefy tokens? Yes please!
Revered Dead early awesome defense
Seizan, Perverter of Truth extra cards, at a price
To be continued...
5 months ago
There is a tl;dr section at the bottom, I did not have enough time to shorten this
Taking this off the forums to save everybody else (and you) the trouble
1:I am accused of being too much of a spike ("That's because stuff like Stasis are 'spikier' cards"). The cause of this accusation was directed at my answer ("but there are better ways of achieving Stasis hint hint", the answer provided an improved card whilst not making any concrete specifications. This was interpreted that I am competitive.
This accusation is easily falsified by pointing out lack of specificity I used and the fact that I mentioned a less-than-competitive reason (in the form of Brine Elemental).
Typical EDH is brought up ("in typical EDH, decks that want to play big creatures without big combos or locks are pretty common"). You have defined typical EDH as, "is not the weird mix of casual-competitive that you play. It's just casual". First: what weird mix of casual-competitive do I play? Please expand accurately on that. How would normal casual-competitive be defined? Please expand accurately on that. Lastly, please define casual, accurately of course.
*If you want any information as to who I play with, what decks we play, and how long games last (turn and/or minutes), ask and you shall receive.
I am accused that I play weird casual-competitive. To say that I play casual-competitive, coming from another person, is one of the most cretinous, inane, and ineffectual statements to make.
Who are you to say that I play weird casual-competitive?
"I'll also point out your explicit mentions of 'meta' and 'competitive'". Congratulations, you read what I write. If you could please be so kind as to assimilate it. The usage of the word "meta" is as follows: a term used to characterize something that is characteristically self-referential. Please do not confuse this with the abbreviation "meta" (most effective tactically available) as that would make no sense within that context. You pointed out that I used the word competitive. I freely admit that I mention (and more) the word competitive, explicitly and clearly.
Do you admit the same.
You appear to view this as a bad thing (troubling, however, your point does not prove anything, leaving another open-ended notion that you bring up).
The original point is that Kokusho, the Evening Star is used more than Yosei, the Morning Star, Ryusei, the Falling Star, Jugan, the Rising Star, and/or Keiga, the Tide Star (damn, i got them all correct!). I gave my reason, when you argued, I gave another reason, you then argued by accusing the way I play, the way others play (attacking my playgroups), and then proceeded to ignore my second reason.
You expect that if you--passively or passive-aggressively or aggressively-- accuse a person (seemingly without any basis), that you can get away with it? With this in mind, let's review some notes you might have forgotten:
you create open-ended and empty points, you create terms that are vague and voided, and it appears that if it is not casual (oh sorry: typical edh) it is immediately discounted.
1:I want to use the way that you write and show you how ridiculous it is, but one would hope that is already clear by what is on this message.
The amount of definite things that you (appear to) believe I said that are not true and create serious flaws: I like yosei as a card, I use yosei in my kaalia deck (Rakdos the Defiler + Yosei, the Morning Star + Twilight Shepherd is fun on turn 5...), and Yosei is not a bad card. Remember, because there is a "better" card does not necessarily mean that the original card is bad. Redundancy is key in edh. Plague Wind is strictly worse than In Garruk's Wake, is Plague Wind a bad card? No(!) both cards are both good. Would I rather play In Garruk's Wake, in most situations, yes. I shall forestall your comment (you talk about meta (the abbreviation)!) and note that both plague and garruk's wake are good and played.
It is important to note your comment, "Yosei is listed in around 2000 decks out of the 150,000-ish decks". You do not list where, how, or what parameters you used in coming up with this. It should be disqualified from the internet. However, since you bring up that numbers, I viewed this search and applied Kokusho, Yosei, Keiga, Ryusei, and Jugan. Each page is 20 decks, i got the following numbers: Kokusho is in 6160 decks, Yosei is in 3480(?!) decks, Keiga is in 2820 decks, Ryusei is in 1880 decks, and Jugan is in 1260 decks (all of these numbers are within 20 minus). I do not see the point in continuing to write this line of thought.
1:In conclusion. It has been a delightful fifteen minutes thinking about this, but for now I shall break.
2:The following has been noted and gone over: you accused me of being a spike, of not playing typical edh, and playing weird casual-competitve edh. You offer no grounds, clarifications, definitions, and minimal basis for them. You have been quoted. You are asked a question that is a cause for some abeyance. I rehash the original point and show your flaws. I stem future accusations. I clarify misconceptions you seem to hold (apologies if you did not hold them, your comments were indicative). I debase a claim you fought for. I reiterate message in conclusion.
5 months ago
Not yet but I am looking to construct something similar. I'll let you know if I do.
I really like the pro-color element you have going. I run a pro-color Angel Tribal (work in progress) that I have been tweeking for a while and would love to put some of the angels I have kicking around tht didn't make the cut to use! Also I am just discovering Horde and it seems to be the answer to all the really bad tribal decks that never really work well.
I'm excited about;
Desolation Angel looks brutal in horde.
Herald of the Host Herald of the host looks fun!
Iridescent Angel sounds brutal to deal with.
Here are some recommendations based on my tribal deck;
Concerted Effort would probably work really well in this build.
Luminarch Ascension If you worked the rules for it it could be good with a d-6 dice.
Angel of Jubilation is super useful.
Angelic Skirmisher HAS to go in. She is just too good.
Twilight Shepherd could cause difficulties.
Anyway I'll stop pestering you and build my own deck lol... Sorry for the wall of text. I'll send you a copy when I do for it's is always good to collaborate eh?
6 months ago
Thank you all SO MUCH for all the suggestions! I certainly have a lot to think about haha!
Some initial thoughts though:
First, I've been trying to stray away from high white-devotion cards for a while because I mostly need red mana in this deck, BUT... once I've eventually improved my mana base(help please) I'll be able to include cards like Reya Dawnbringer, True Conviction, and Twilight Shepherd.
Second: This is still a very budget deck(which explains why the mana base has suffered so far), with no cards over $4, but the expensive cards like Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Phyrexian Dreadnought are now on the radar because of the effect they could have in the deck.
Again, thank you all SO much! Keep the comments coming!
6 months ago
Cool deck I like it a lot. Got me thinking...got some ideas.. Emeria Shepherd & Nim Deathmantle for more uses of your ball lightning cards. Conjurer's Closet can help you keep your stolen dudes around to use more before nuking them. Twilight Shepherd, True Conviction, Dictate of Heliod, To Arms!, Thousand-Year Elixir, Magewright's Stone, Thunderblust, Impetuous Devils...I bet Phyrexian Dreadnought makes its way into non budget builds, sac it with its ETB trigger on the stack. Happy gathering!