Liesa, Forgotten Archangel

Legendary Creature — Angel

Flying, lifelink

Whenever another nontoken creature you control dies (is put into the graveyard from the battlefield), return that card to its owner's hand at the beginning of the next end step.

If a creature an opponent controls would die, exile it instead.

Legality

Format	Legality
1v1 Commander	Legal
Alchemy	Legal
Archenemy	Legal
Arena	Legal
Block Constructed	Legal
Brawl	Legal
Canadian Highlander	Legal
Casual	Legal
Commander / EDH	Legal
Commander: Rule 0	Legal
Custom	Legal
Duel Commander	Legal
Gladiator	Legal
Highlander	Legal
Historic	Legal
Legacy	Legal
Leviathan	Legal
Limited	Legal
Modern	Legal
Oathbreaker	Legal
Pioneer	Legal
Planechase	Legal
Pre-release	Legal
Quest Magic	Legal
Standard	Legal
Vanguard	Legal
Vintage	Legal

Discussion (32)

Gidgetimer on Does Liesa return Sword of …

4 months ago

LTB triggers (including "dies" triggers) check the existence of objects right before the triggering event happens. So what Liesa, Forgotten Archangel sees for the purposes of triggering is that an artifact was put into the graveyard. For the same reason something like Disciple of the Vault would trigger when Sword of the Realms  ^Flip is put into a graveyard, despite it being Halvar, God of Battle  ^Flip the entire time the card exists in the graveyard.

603.10. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions, and continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities are exceptions to this rule; the game “looks back in time” to determine if those abilities trigger, using the existence of those abilities and the appearance of objects immediately prior to the event. The list of exceptions is as follows:

603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.

Quickspell on Does Liesa return Sword of …

4 months ago

I probably can answer this to myself, but I need to make sure.

When Sword of the Realms  ^Flip is out into a graveyard, it becomes the creature Halvar, God of Battle  ^Flip again, since that is the face side of the MDFC card.

Since it was an artifact when put into a graveyard, it did not die and therefore Halvar will not be returned with Liesa, Forgotten Archangel, is that correct?

orcopollo on The Angelic Vampire

4 months ago

Great deck! Have you considered Liesa, Forgotten Archangel for your angel subtheme? I think it could make a nice reanimation addition!

JackNavi on Esper Lounge Presents : Weaver of a Thousand Faces

4 months ago

Last_Laugh , Thanks for putting Crackdown on my radar. Looks like a Backbreaker! I'll def try that out on the next swap out if the current strategy isn't working out. Speaking of different strategies, your Added Layers deck is pretty sweet! DRAW DRAW DRAW DRAW DRAW but in a different flavor; Your deck has reminded me that Liesa, Forgotten Archangel can also be included in this deck. TYSM, I love it my Guy!

nindude on Ratadrabik of Urborg

7 months ago

Deck Updates

These are changes based on game testing and new cards I think will improve the deck significantly. My goals are to increase the synergy but also the flow of the deck.

Cards I took out: - Athreos, God of Passage / I prefer creatures in the graveyard - Liesa, Forgotten Archangel / I prefer creatures in the graveyard - Syr Konrad, the Grim / Doesn't trigger enough for my taste - Wrath of God / I've noticed that board whipping is less effective than I thought in this deck and out of both Damnation Will be easier to cast with our mana production - Dictate of Erebos / As good as this card is Grave Pact does it for less. Additionally, I have never used its flash ability

Cards I put in: - Archaeomancer's Map / Better ramp - Blade of Selves / Myriad is crazy in this deck and can lead to quick victories or even infinite combos (which usually lead to victory) - Mondrak, Glory Dominus / This card is WAY TOO GOOD in this deck. It double tokens! It's a sacrifice outlet that makes it indestructible!! Also it combos infinitely with Blade of Selves and Ratadrabik of Urborg - Boromir, Warden of the Tower / This card alone is really good but it combos infinitely with Ratadrabik of Urborg and can be a powerful combo with cards like Grave Pact and Proper Burial - Gandalf the White / Double death triggers means double tokens with Ratadrabik of Urborg or quick wins with cards like Kokusho, the Evening Star

Things to change in the Future - Currently trying to fit "Samwise the Southearted" and "The Golden Throne" into the deck for a few additional mana combos / stabilize the mana production. - I might try to fit in "Dictate of Erebos" if possible...

FolkOccult on Sisay's Horny Spaceship

9 months ago

Five Color Decks

Probably the one deck-type I've found myself building often, I've built this commander twice, the Jared Carthalion planeswalker three times, Morophon Ultimatum-tribal, Tiamat D&D only, and a couple other flavor specific lore-restrictive decks and the biggest advice I have to offer is trying to balance your mana base and pips (not saying your lands themselves are off, but looking at the color of the spells in your deck I can see the imbalance in colors when comparing your black and white spells to the number of red, green, and blue spells. This isn't necessarily bad, but with as many of these that have two pips of the same color mana, you're going to find yourself getting stuck with something you can't cast because you're waiting on that one pip of additional mana in the color you need).

My biggest piece of advice for accomplishing this is to either focus on multi-colored creatures, or mono-colored pieces that you can cast and send on their way. Both require a tight balance of mana-color, the first requiring as mana colors of mana to be open as possible while the latter only requires you have one of each color available to cast either a white, blue, black, red, or green creature.

By stacking as many pips of the same color (two, three, or four of the same color pip like in Celestial Mantle) you're actively fighting your deck's mana base by telling your one of each color to filter you another color of the same pip (meaning you'll need ways to filter or get these colors which isn't as effective as just having these colors on the field, ala basics, fetches, or mana rocks). With rocks you can do this, or by filtering, but I suggest just pay 2 mana for an arcane signet and you're better off than hoping you can get the color you need to use your Mana Crypt to cast your commander turn 1.

The second part of making sure your WUBRG deck isn't going to smack itself face first off the draw, is going to be curating your mana around your library and the cards within it. I suggest establishing your mana base after you've counted your pips (either making sure if there are any multi-colored spells that they have only one pip of each color present to establish an easier cast Elenda, the Dusk Rose which can be cast with WUBRG components, or lowering your two-to-three pip spells like Liesa, Forgotten Archangel or Mesa Enchantress unless it's pinnacle to your game plan to more multi-colored or single-pip creatures.) or putting as many single-pip spells into this as possible for blatant consistency.

The Game-plan

I can't say I'm skilled or the least bit talented at constructing decks, I actively fight the design philosophy of each plane and their released cards which may never see reprints. Making some set-decks stronger than others innately by what was released at the time.

What I can say helps me recognize a game-plan is looking at the main card I'm building around, in this case Sisay is probably your strongest contender for a commander that can host as many 'sexy mtg ladies' as possible. But. Mechanically speaking, this commander requires legendary permanents. A couple things can solve this, On Serra's Wings is probably the most 'permanent' solution. Giving a creature you control Ring-Bearer would now work in making anything a legendary. Otherwise, the easiest method of achieving this would be to make as many of your creatures as legendary as you possibly can.

Hosting 33 creatures makes this easier to make probable if all of them were Legendary, but otherwise, only serves to fit your card with more creatures that might not trigger your commander and their ability to go permanent ('sexy mtg lady')-hunting and providing you further value.

I definitely suggest the latter and making this focused around as many multicolored/mono-colored legendary women as you can make work. This would give you more access to playable creatures, help you create a consistent mana-base, and most importantly play most anything in your hand.

That doesn't mean select pieces of utility can't be added in Mother of Runes is a great include for flavor if you so chose to keep them, Skrelv, Defector Mite is the same card but legendary and would otherwise be the 'legendary' for this piece of utility. So finding those non-legendary 'sexy woman' slots might be the particularly most daunting task here? I'll try to suggest what adjustments I might myself make when playing with such a theme.

Artifacts

Looking over your decklist, there are a couple red flags that immediately come out to me. This being a WUBRG deck, having cards like Mana Vault or Mana Crypt are going to both eat your life, and mana. Unless going for some specific jank, your first priority should be creating an open and available pool of five mana colors, not colorless mana. Otherwise, you're going to be flooded with mana only capable of letting you cast one color of spell, or at contributing on the generic mana of a spell or two.

I'd suggest swapping your Mana Vault for a Arcane Signet, providing both a cheap (financially) solution to providing you with more different color mana pips that can allow you to 'ramp' off of your Sol Ring, and Mana Crypt if you keep it.

I can't say I'd outright replace Mana Crypt in every deck, it is THAT good, but for WUBRG, nailing your mana base is second to none when it comes to important deck-building topics. You can't shirk the ability to get the colors of mana you need. If finding the pips of mana you need if a priority, I'd replace this with Wayfarer's Bauble to guarantee any one color into play for use.

You can also replace your Gilded Lotus for a Wayfarer's Bauble instead of the Mana Crypt if you really want to keep it, otherwise I'd suggest Fellwar Stone here. Giving you an overall reduced average cmc, while giving you as must opportunity as possible at pulling the colors of mana you need to have open to cast anything you draw.

I can't recommend this as quickly as the others, it has its place in every deck, but you could replace Darksteel Ingot with Relic of Legends for the innate synergy you'd see in making this deck as Legendary-centric as you can.

If you choose not to work towards this overall theme, I can't blame you, but I will say it will not be as effective as you may wish it to become.

I'm going to leave this initial observation of the deck and some suggested adjustments I'd make here, before continuing into looking over your creature base and any synergies I can find.

I hope these initial points, or suggestions, are at least a little insightful, I'll be back with more later on.

Last_Laugh on No Pain, No Lifegain

1 year ago

Celestine, the Living Saint fits the theme and helps get creatures back into play. Liesa, Forgotten Archangel will help too, but does return them to hand.

Try Plumb the Forbidden in Sign in Bloods slot. Instant speed makes this card a great response to boardwipes and I get the feeling you'll have plenty of life lol.

Debt to the Deathless/Exsanguinate actually fit the theme while giving you some non-combat reach to finish games.

This last one's a bit more expensive,but Sheoldred, the Apocalypse would be amazing here.

CrystalQuarry on Liesa, Forgotten Archangel (Budget EDH, Combo)

1 year ago

Hey, thank you so much for commenting and taking the time to read through the deck description!

While this is intended to be a budget deck, I personally just really like foils and original printings of cards. The versions of each card listed in the deck here are what I actually have for it in paper.

Activated Sleeper is a card I have been looking at and considering adding to the deck, but it seems highly conditional given that it can only copy a creature that left the battlefield the same turn. I agree it can go infinite with Karmic Guide and Karmic Guide even helps set it up given that Echo would often force you to sacrifice it on your upkeep anyway. That said, I'm a bit worried about how effective the card is when you DON'T have access to Karmic Guide. I guess depending on the pod it could still be quite good at stealing an opponent's creature. I will have to test it a bit and see how it performs in practice.

Kaya's Ghostform is a card I've considered as well but what concerns me with it is the Sorcery speed nature of it and that it is a bit more telegraphed what the intention is. That said, the ability to bring back the creature even if it gets targeted with something like Swords to Plowshares is very cool! In the pods I've played this deck and where people have gotten to learn more or less how it works, they tend to try and remove Liesa, Forgotten Archangel very quickly, so I've found cards like Undying Evil to be essential for keeping Liesa in play. I've found the instant speed to be extremely relevant in many situations as well. That said, Legion's Landing  ^Flip is a particularly weak card in the deck and I could definitely see cutting that for testing Kaya's Ghostform.

Thran Vigil is a cool new card that I must have missed in the BRO spoilers. However, this deck isn't really all in on persist type effects. Twilight Shepherd is pretty much the only card it would strongly interact with. I would say it's pretty rare for this deck to win through combat and as such the value of the +1/+1 counters in it (even an arbitrarily large number of them) is a bit questionable. If the deck has assembled one of the infinite death engines, then it should be winning outright without the need to even go to combat. I like the interaction with Tortured Existence but it's such a shame that it only works on your turn! If you could suddenly pump up Liesa on an opponent's turn after they've already declared attackers at you, then that would make it a lot better.

Profane Tutor is a great budget tutor, but having to wait two entire turns is a major detriment to how useful of a card it is, especially as a mid to late game draw. The decks I've seen take the biggest advantage of Profane Tutor are the ones that somehow exile and cast a copy from exile or copy it from graveyard and cast the copy immediately, rather than having to wait the two turns. Mid to late game I would much rather pay a little extra mana to guarantee getting a card immediately rather than having to wait. If you get Profane Tutor in the early game, then yes it's definitely better than Diabolic Tutor or Mastermind's Acquisition for the lower mana cost. If I had a means of cheating on the suspend part of the card in Orzhov then it would warrant an inclusion over one of the other tutors in my opinion.

Vile Entomber is another card I considered and even in an earlier iteration of the deck I ran for a while. The issue I often found with it was that it only grabbed ONE card to put to the graveyard. Burning-Rune Demon and Final Parting are in the deck because they find TWO cards. With Vile Entomber I could find Karmic Guide but not another card to combo with it. With Burning-Rune Demon I can find Karmic Guide and another card to combo with it and often times whichever piece the opponent gives me is irrelevant. Blinking or reanimating Burning-Rune Demon is also significantly more value and helps assemble combos much faster than Vile Entomber can.

Bolas's Citadel is extremely powerful, but it is at least right now (12/17/2022) more than $5 which is where the line in the sand has been drawn for whether or not a card can be added to the deck. That said, even if it was a bit cheaper Bolas's Citadel would require leaning much harder into a life gain theme. While life gain is another very popular and powerful strategy, I feel it is a bit orthogonal to the direction of this deck which is more heavily focused on creature ETB/LTB triggers and the graveyard.

I've been working on a Liesa, Shroud of Dusk deck which leans very heavily into life gain/life loss shenanigans and in that deck I do run stuff like Children of Korlis. That's not to say that Children of Korlis isn't a good card in Liesa, Forgotten Archangel, but I feel like you have to already be on the life gain game plan to get the most out of it.

Plumb the Forbidden is a great card, but you need sufficiently many throw away bodies and a sufficiently high life total to manage it. Without sufficient life gain or creature token generators it runs the risk of being a dead draw. Body Count can also be a completely dead draw at times, but it has a much higher ceiling in this deck specifically than Plumb the Forbidden does. Body Count can literally draw the entire deck for 1 black mana with a death engine assembled. Plumb the Forbidden could never draw more than the greatest number of creatures in play at one moment and I must have the life available to pay for it plus 2 mana. If the deck was more of an aristocrats style build spewing creature tokens left and right and running things like Soul Warden then Plumb the Forbidden would be a much more natural inclusion I feel.

Fanatical Devotion is a really cool sacrifice outlet that can do relevant things like protect Liesa which is very important. That said, thanks to BRO another arguably much better sacrifice outlet just became budget (<$5). And that's Ashnod's Altar. I will be adding this to the deck shortly as a third sacrifice outlet.

Thanks again for reading the long description and commenting!