Creature — Phoenix
Flamewake Phoenix attacks each turn if able.
Ferocious — At the beginning of combat on your turn, if you control a creature with power 4 or greater, you may pay . If you do, return Flamewake Phoenix from your graveyard to the battlefield.
|Have (3)||metalmagic , IcyLightning , Karrth|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Flamewake Phoenix Discussion
2 months ago
I'm not sure how exactly Quin plays yet, but I'm trying to come up with something with him too so I'll throw some cards I thought were interesting at you. Sentinel's Eyes seems decent, with Quin out it gives you two 3/2s for , which is pretty good. Battle Screech is just a generally strong tokens card so it fits with the token support, but also gives you a 3/2 (for free!). Same with Increasing Devotion , although thats definitely a lower power level just because of the mana cost. Prismatic Strands / Rally the Peasants are both also pretty strong cards that also will just throw in a 3/2 with Quin.
You have quite a few humans, so maybe throw in Bruna, the Fading Light Flip, and if you want to meld, Gisela, the Broken Blade ? Bruna's solid on her own, but I might just be biased because I love meld. Angel of Glory's Rise too, depending on how many humans you end up with. You could also play things like Resurrection and Breath of Life , or even Gate to the Afterlife / God-Pharaoh's Gift . Angelic Renewal goes infinite with Sun Titan and a sac outlet, which you should probably have at least one more of. Ashnod's Altar is the go too, but I think its pretty expensive nowadays, so maybe Blasting Station , Dark-Dweller Oracle , or Grafted Exoskeleton
A bunch of the phoenixes seem decent, since they always return. I think the best ones would be Flamewake Phoenix , Rekindling Phoenix , and Skyfire Phoenix . Flamewake seems great since with Quin your spirits activate ferocious, the others I'd be more skeptical about.
Well I hope that's at least somewhat helpful lol
10 months ago
Ok, as an update to this deck, I have played just over 50 matches with this deck between mostly online on cockatrice and in paper with friends. I am at a win-rate of about 27-11 against tried and true meta decks. when accounting for what I would call "jank" or otherwise just unproven, I am at 35-14. I have played against such decks as: Humans, Hardened Scales, Gruul Midrange, Yorion Flicker (pre and post ban), Eldrazi Tron, Green Tron, UW Control, Death Shadow (Mono-Black, Grixis, Jund, and Sultai), Burn, Prowess (Red and Izzet), Devoted Druid Combo, Spirits (UW and bant), Storm (though I need more testing here), Combo Goblins, Dredge (though I need more testing) and Titanshift.
Though I mostly see players that can see the interactions of the deck, it is quite a unique and unorthodox deck, and reasonably good players have made misplays- especially in seeing the interactions with Retribution of the Ancients as well as just seeing the mutate mechanic. I Also made changes to the deck over this testing period, though minor, in order to aid the deck is hard matchups as I identify them. I also have made misplays myself as I learned the ins and outs of the deck (and obviously still continue to do so). I also played most of my games with random people on cockatrice, which I have heard plenty of things about people not being good players on cockatrice, even though I would not say that is necessarily true. For these reasons and more, I would definitely take these results with a grain of salt and accept that there is a margin of error here (For better or for worse), but I think it is still great to learn from the testing that I have done over the past few weeks.
I have some findings to share here about these games:
This deck has a huge capacity to grind. Obviously turning your two-for-ones into like four-for-ones is good when the plan works, but just fighting with your opponent over getting the engine assembled while swinging in depletes them while bolstering the deck in most situations. As one of many examples, I managed to beat sultai-reclamation by getting the opponent to draw their deck out. I did this by pressuring their life-total while holding down Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath, forcing bad cryptic plays by attacking, and just forcing bad lines. Though I did not count this in my win/loss because the opponent left after game one (which was like forty minutes) and I would consider the deck to be "jank" after the recent banning, I can confirm that the deck was close to meta because I saw all but seven of the cards the opponent was playing (which were in hand). point is though that the deck can grind HARD.
I find that against really fast decks like Prowess and Burn, you find yourself in a spot where you have to try to stabilize, and even end up getting outgrinded because of the constant pressure and considerations that have to be made on your life total which lead to sub-optimal lines. Though I had a decent amount of wins as well as losses in these matchups, I decided to add Life Goes On to the sideboard, which has really helped to improve the chances of winning here. I chose specifically Life Goes On because gaining eight life is particularly potent and almost always going to be active in this deck. This card also plays well in the deck because you will find a lot that the deck is practically built to leave up one untapped land for Retribution of the Ancients activations or casting Village Rites, which just makes having this card extra flexible, letting you play the lines you want to even if your life total is pressured (at least with the play-style I typically opt for when playing the deck).
I almost always side out Eldritch Evolution games two and three. I have pretty much relegated the use of this card to only being used for having the ability to combo more often and give flexibility for the given matchup I see in game one. The only toolbox stuff that I keep this card in for is against decks like storm and dredge really (though there may be other matchups where I need this that I haven't identified yet), where I will not only be able to essentially have additional copies of say Yixlid Jailer, but also be able to get a Lurrus of the Dream-Den to loop Nihil Spellbomb or Scavenging Ooze. The other toolbox card that I have for Eldritch Evolution is Phyrexian Revoker, but more often than not I would not have these two cards in the deck at the same time because this card has really only been used to deal with opposing Scavenging Oozes, even though I would still sideboard this card in as a toolbox card against say an opposing yawgmoth deck if that's something I'll ever see. For the most part though, opt for the play-to-the-board tempo/aggro plan when you can.
In matchups where I see discard spells, Unearth has been an absolute powerhouse. In the past, I would sideboard this card out no matter what to avoid being hit by graveyard hate as hard as this deck can be, but I found that you REALLY want this against discard spells and one-for-one removal decks just because it adds so much artificial redundancy. For what it is worth, cycling also helps dig too.
I found that I almost always side in Gemrazer. The mix between being able to interact and put on pressure is uncanny. I usually just side this card in as a hedge against graveyard hate, but there are so many random situations where you would want to have this card regardless of if you have a target for it or not (I'll list of a few random situations I found against various decks).
Against Titanshift and other land-based ramp decks takes out Dryad of the Ilysian Grove (which is a good blocker against the deck a decent amount of the time) as well as Amulet of Vigor where you expect to see it.
You automatically side this in against Tron and Eldrazi Tron. You need to race, and this card helps you do that while taking out a lot of the cards those decks play
I just side this in against control to help go faster, deal with graveyard hate, and just kill planeswalkers randomly, also trades up in creatures against removal because you get two back after the card is removed
Once again, I want to iterate that this is a card that is in the deck to reactively deal with artifact and enchantment based graveyard hate while maintaining a very proactive position, everything that this card does in addition is an added bonus, and can even drive you to side this card in even though you otherwise might not want to, just because it is that good.
In general, I would say that I love the deck and it is very fun when you can choose between playing a quick aggro game and a slow and methodical approach to playing. As I eluded to in the beginning of this post with saying I have played the deck in paper, I now have a completed build (minus the Verdant Catacombs)!
1 year ago
I think a life-oriented phoenix is the best option, Garza's Assassin is the most similar, but I think red can flavorfully spend life like that, also if a Phoenix costs life to come back, I think it makes sense that it has other life-related abilities:
Creature - Phoenix
, Pay half your life, rounded up: Return Bloodflame Phoenix from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate this ability only during your upkeep.
I'd like to see another Phoenix, but neither a phoenix lord or a repeated method of return.
- Akoum Firebird - Landfall
- Arclight Phoenix - Storm
- Ashcloud Phoenix - Morph
- Bogardan Phoenix - Counter
- Chandra's Phoenix - Opponent dealt Damage from Instant/Sorcery or Chandra
- Everquill Phoenix - Mutate & Artifact Token
- Firestorm Phoenix - Delayed casting
- Firewing Phoenix - Mana cost
- Flamewake Phoenix - Ferocious
- Flame-Wreathed Phoenix - Tribute (very weak, why is this mythic?)
- Immortal Phoenix - No requirement
- Kuldotha Phoenix - Metalcraft
- Magma Phoenix - Mana cost
- Molten Firebird - Skip draw step
- Phoenix of Ash - Escape
- Rekindling Phoenix - Creature token
- Shard Phoenix - Mana cost with timeing restriction
- Shivan Phoenix - No requirement
- Skarrgan Firebird - Opponent dealt damage
- Skyfire Phoenix - Commander
- Spellpyre Phoenix - Cycling
- Warcry Phoenix - Battalion
- Worldheart Phoenix - cost
1 year ago
I really like the idea, but it seems you're a little too all-in on the combo. Maybe try some more creatures? With all these wheels, how about some copies of Flamewake Phoenix?
1 year ago
1 year ago
There are some other "targets" for discard, but I don't think all of these are the best for you. I'll list each of them instead of loads of paragraphs.
Punishing Fire - Could be a replacement for Spit Flame but honestly that's up to you. Punishing Fire is technically more versatile since it hits any target and depending on the matchup it can be easier to retrieve. However, Spit Flame has an easier time removing creatures. This one more to just let you know exists.
Flamewake Phoenix - Again, a card that I'm mentioning just to let you know exists. Since most of your dragons have 4 or more power, you could easily get this card back from your graveyard but you would also deviate a bit from the draconic theme.
Ore-Scale Guardian - This one isn't a target himself, but he makes it more profitable for you to discard lands, specially if you end up being mana flooded.
Runehorn Hellkite - Can be used to refill your hand late game(?) and as he's no diffenrent from other dragons, there's no downside letting him rest in your grave until you active it's effect.
Fiery Temper - Basically adds 3 damage for one mana to all of your discard spells.
These are the monored option. I also have options that would actually require you to splash for black. These are, of course, not mandatory for you to run, but it's always good to get to know more cards.
Bladewing the Risen -A giant dragon that reanimates another one when it comes into play and also has the ability to pump all your dragons. Obviously he's not a target for discard himself. However, he can make other dragons more interesting to discard.
Boneyard Scourge - Pretty simple. Dump him into the graveyard and when one of your dragons die, you get him back for a really cheap cost.
Bone Dragon - A recurrable dragon that can be left in the grave until the late game when it can come back multiple times, assuming you have enough cards in the grave.
In case you consider any of these black cards or you just don't feel confortable not bein able to cast the Thralls, there are a few budget lands that can help you with the mana. Also, the Haven of the Spirit Dragon could help you cast the black dragons but not activate their abilities.
About the cuts for the Thralls, you are still above 60 cards. There are some other cuts you can also make.
Dragonspeaker Shaman - They're quite expensive and you already have a pretty decent amount of "ramp" and cost discounts. Even more, they're really easy to kill.
Slumbering Dragon - He seems quite tempting to play as he can grow a lot. However, that's the problem, he CAN grow but nothing guarantees he will. Also, only one in the deck won't help at all.
Sarkhan's Triumph - Since you now have more card draw, you could maybe cut one of these.
1 year ago
I think in an aggro deck the sheer power of Lightning Skelemental will outweigh the need for survivability that Flamewake Phoenix provides. Maybe just consider it over the Sedraxis Specter then if you are going purely for a red/black mana base and you can keep the phoenix still. Lightning Axe does seem like a solid option for removal and discard fuel. I recommended the 1 CMC spells I did assuming you might want the Dreadhorde Arcanist but if he is not an option then you could easily run something like Cast Down or maybe Angrath's Rampage instead. If you are going red/black then at this point I would also consider cutting Insolent Neonate , Sedraxis Specter and Tasigur, the Golden Fang and just adding some Instants and upping some of your current Sorcery counts from 3 to 4.
1 year ago
Firestalker, I think you made some really good point with the suggestions., and also some real tough considerations.
Honestly, Favorable Winds seems like it's too much. I didn't include it for the memes. I really thought that it would be nice to pump those phoenixes and all the other flyers to hit for massive damage. However, it almost never gets to my hand and when it does, it looks like a dead card for an agrressive deck.
The Lightning Skelemental over Flamewake Phoenix is a difficult one, but don't get me wrong, Lightning Skelemental is an amazing card. The thing is: most of the deck relies on the unearth mechanic and, ironically, the Unearth card. So, most of the cards don't stick until my next turn, espcially in Hell's Thunder 's case, where even when playing it from my hand or reanimating it, it won't surviving by the end of my turn. Flamewake Phoenix can use the Thunder's "power", so to speak, to come in and stay after he dies. At least in my mind, Sedraxis Specter would make a more suitable replacement, as, even tough it would be nice to have a flyer that causes my opponents to discard and a huge trampler that does the same, getting rid of the specter would enable me to cut out blue mana, more on that when I talk about Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Thought Scour .
A 4th Duress and Divest could be placed in the sideboard. Lightning Bolt I'm not so sure, maybe Lightning Axe would be more effective, even tough you've already pointed that I my already have enough discard fuel. Disfigure I'm not so sure about, maybe there's a better option for removal that's also budget. However, I agree that I should have some more interaction with my opponent's board. Vendetta I'll pass, since I don't think the deck race enough to the point that the life loss won't matter.
Now, Dreadhorde Arcanist is a problem. That card would definetly be good in this deck. The issue here is the price. Here in Brazil cards can be rather expensive. You see, while TappedOut says the average TCGplayer price is around $4,69 as of the time I'm writing this comment, here in Brazil it costs R$23,00 minimun, while a full playset would cost R$92,00. Just to give you context, I teach English to a private student of mine and get paid R$280,00 a month. So, the full playset would cost almost a third of what I get paid from my student. It's just not possible for me.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang seems like a card that could be cut out, since I'm already planning on cutting Favorable Winds but I'm not sure I'd replace with Gurmag Angler . Maybe I'd just put 1 Angler to act as a Phoenix enabler and a last resort big body. Maybe Tasigur will get replaced with the Lightning Skelemental and I'll find a way to include other 2 Skellies.
Thought Scour is good but I'll probably leave it on the Maybeboard to experiment with removing all the blue mana and working with a Rakdos manabase.
The manabase will probably just include Smoldering Marsh and Foreboding Ruins since I'll be removing the blue ones, and that should alliviate the pressure of the manabase. Also, as an aggressive deck, cards like Crumbling Necropolis wouldn't help too much.
I think I've talked about everyone one of your suggestions. If I missed anything just say it. Thanks for the attention and time spent to try and help me.