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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a charge counter on Æther Vial.
: You may put a creature card with converted mana cost/mana value equal to the number of charge counters on Aether Vial from your hand onto the battlefield
9 hours ago
If I didn't like the game, I wouldn't be trying to fix it. It's easy to become myopic after playing only MTG for a long time. Did you know Duel Masters and Yu-Gi-Oh! don't even have mulligans?
And Yu-Gi-Oh! doesn't even have lands to begin with, so mana screw/flood is impossible. You can obviously draw too many or too few hand traps, but at least on a brick you can still take game actions.
How would we determine how many lands and spells you can put in a deck? Can I just put 10 spells in my spell deck and 50 lands in my land deck?
Exactly, we can't let people play an unlimited number of lands because they could outnumber the Wastes we're debasing their manabase with. I assumed 24 was a decent number, not counting the Wastes which are shuffled in afterwards. In Shandalar, it's worth noting that if your deck had fewer cards than the minimum, the game would shuffle in random basics to get you up to the correct deck size. This is not really unprecedented.
Or do we restrict it and say you HAVE to have at least X amount of lands and X amount of spells?
The manabase would be separate from your library. I don't think you would need to cap the number of cards in a library as long as you can still shuffle unassisted. Certain companions may become wonky with these changes, so that is a potential problem. But Lurrus and Lutri have been problems in other formats before, never mind the entire Companion mechanic being errataed, so it's not unimaginable that changes may have to be made.
Likewise, Collected Company and Aether Vial may become OP. But why are we warping the RULES of the GAME on behalf of some cards that aren't even legal in all formats? We should fix the problems with the ruleset first and then worry about card design later.
21 hours ago
I told you Pyre of Heroes is super good in tribal decks! lol
AHHHHHHHHHH now I get why you like Nameless Inversion so much! I didn't even think about it being a "knigt card."
On a serious note, after seeing the way Pyre of Heroes performs, do you intend on keeping Fiend Artisan or maybe using its slots for Pyre of Heroes and finding two more somethings? maybe... Unearth? or... ya know... whatever floats the boat better.
The more you play this deck, I'm certain you will see more weight behind my recomendations. lol I really don't want people to waste 3 years figuring out their decks/sideboards. Even if I only cut off a year, conversations like this are always welcome.
Thank you for finding my Cleric Tempo deck.
1 day ago
Oh yeah, also having a full playset of a legendary creature is a little much. 2-3 in my experience is far better, and opens up space for other spells.
And even if you decide to keep Aether Vial, it thrives off of creature decks with "mana problems." 20 lands (maybe even less) is the actually a good idea.
1 day ago
I'm not quite sure what you mean by using Nameless Inversion over and over again. It's a one time use spell. Sure you have a full playset, but... it only effects one creature, and even then only does a reduction of stats. Fatal Push destroys based of CMC. Could you explain?
As far as your lands are concerened, I know what you mean when it comes to being on T2 or T3 and only having colorless mana. Never a good feeling. I also understand your hesitation with going down to 20. However, when you have consistent means of thining your deck with cards like Marsh Flats, Windswept Heath, and Pyre of Heroes (as you will later read, I'm gonna really push it) neither finding land nor creature becomes a problem. Which actually goes into why Unearth and Knight of the Reliquary are good for your deck. The dual use of Unearth allowing you to resurect a creature or cycle and draw a card is money. The ability of Knight of the Reliquary allowing you to search for any land (including fetch lands) is OP. Because of such I would even recommend removing any land that doesn't say forest or plains on it (with fetch lands being the obvious exception). Deck thinning/tutoring is HUGE! Effectively, your odds exponentially increase to draw cards you want by removing the cards you don't want to draw from the deck.
And now my case against Aether Vial lol
Considering how easy it would be to get Haakon, Stromgald Scourge onto the battlefield with Pyre of Heroes, I'm actually more curious as to why you aren't looking for more self discard/mill mechanics. Especially after the recent reprint of Liliana of the Veil. In all honesty, with something like her, you could change your removal spells to target more permanents with things like Assassin's Trophy, Despark, or Rite of Oblivion. That way you already have answeres for people who run graveyard hate in the sideboard, and you will run into them. Sure Aether Vial is great for getting out a creature from your hand for free, but let's say you're top decking and you draw a land. Three Pyre of Heroes would not care. They would only care about the creatures you have on the battlefield. Getting Haakon, Stromgald Scourge out is easy, and that land is more usefull to you than having three stagnant Aether Vials.
2 days ago
squiGGhetti - Good stuff! Thanks for taking a look!
Hmmm...maybe I will drop the filter lands like Twilight Mire, Wooded Bastion, and Fetid Heath and double the shock lands I am currently running. I will say I have had games where I start with like 3 lands in my hand but they only can generate colorless mana which kills the hand. Adding the shock lands would give me more to fetch and still provides me the option to play fast or treat it as a tap land if speed is not of the essence. I am not sure on dropping it down to only 20 lands though, with an average CMC of 2.23, I want to hedge that bet. 21 lands is pretty optimal for starting with 2-3 lands in hand with good odds of drawing an additional land in the next three turns making it so the deck SHOULD be able to play anything by turn 4...should being the key word...
Two people now pushing for Unearth now huh? I do like the card as it provides a cheap return for a 3 CMC creature or provides you a draw if not needed but I am just not understanding why it seems like a good fit for this deck. Generally, I have a lot of ways to cheat or force Haakon, Stromgald Scourge to the field and at that point, as long as he is not exiled, I can continue to cast him or another as needed. Can you expand on why Unearth is a good fit?
You are not wrong that there are better removal spells out there than Nameless Inversion. I mean Dismember comes to mind for a similar card that is more effective and potentially less mana intensive to boot! However, what I LOVE about Nameless Inversion is its ability to be recast over and over. Bar Hexproof this can remove any creature from the board if I have the mana for it or I can remove multiple weaker creatures on the same turn. Trust me, if the game last more that 5-6 turns, Nameless Inversion will greatly outplay any other standard removal spell out there in this deck.
I do love Collected Company. I built my first tribal knight deck around it (For Honor and Glory!!!) and try to find a place for it where ever I can! I was running a full playset but dropped two copies to make room for Eldritch Evolution as I wanted to try that out to see how it faired. Now you have caused the dilemma of having to test drive Pyre of Heroes as well!
Agreed on Knight of Autumn. She is actually the only reason I created this Abzan version of the Haakon deck. The original was the Mardu version but I lover her versatility. Few things are more rewarding that watching my opponent cast a high CMC enchantment or artifact only to destroy it with Knight of Autumn!
On the debate of Pyre of Heroes vs Eldritch Evolution I think you may be right...I like the idea of being able to cast it T2 and use it on T3 with any creature I sacrifice being able to be resurrected whenever I desire. Definitely going to try it out over the next couple of weeks as it as merit. Not sure I would drop Aether Vial for it though, those free up my mana for dropping creatures and spells or just let me drop multiple creatures per turn if needed.
Two of the four honorary mentions you listed originally were in the deck. I dropped Knight of the Ebon Legion and Knight of the Reliquary as they just did not feel optimal in this deck. Murderous Rider is great but when he dies he gets shuffled into the library which is counter-productive for this deck but I do love that card. I have a similar relationship with Knights' Charge, love the card on principal but just seems so slow in practice. I do see your point though in terms of it having some merit in a aggro knight deck built around letting creatures die or be sacrificed...I will add that to the maybe list...liking it more as I think about the possibilities.
Sorry for the long comment but thanks for the feedback and suggestions! As I mentioned, good stuff!
2 days ago
I must agree with to_regatha_and_beyond about the manabase. With more fetch lands and more copies of Indatha Triome, Godless Shrine, Overgrown Tomb, and Temple Garden, it is a great way to improve consistency and speed the deck up. With that said, I completely understand why you have lands like Nurturing Peatland to get the card draw you need with such a low mana curve. Also, I would probably go down to 20 lands since your most expensive card is only 4 CMC.
I would consider putting in more copies of Collected Company, mainly because it's insanely strong.
My favorite card you have in this deck is definately Knight of Autumn. The fact that it offers removal and is a creature is fantastic.
All that to get to the main reason I'm here! The debate btween Pyre of Heroes and Eldritch Evolution. I think with this deck, Pyre of Heroes might be a better option. It is technically a slower play, however something I've found with tutor mechanics like this needing a lot of card draw is not really needed. I would also venture to say that having Pyre of Heroes would eleminate your need for Aether Vial.
3 weeks ago
I would think 22 lands would be a better fit here… 20 seems a bit low for what you’re doing. I’m also not convinced Manamorphose is a good/useful card here.
Aether Vial also feels really questionable considering how few of your creatures share a mana-value
1 month ago
@philosopher thank you for your comment. I have a playset of Collected Company but I don't like it in this deck. In my opinion, Collected Company requires mana dorks like BOP or Noble Hierarch and cards that have good ETB effects. This is more like a zoo deck, cheap strong creatures without much effects, but something similar too CoCo that I was thinking about, is adding Aether Vial.
I'll check your deck out, thank you!