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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Creature — Human Shaman
When Seasoned Pyromancer enters the battlefield, discard two cards, the draw two cards. For each nonland card discarded this way, create a 1/1 red Elemental creature token.
, Exile Seasoned Pyromancer from your graveyard: Create two 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens.
2 days ago
4 Stitcher's Supplier 4 Hedron Crab 3 Satyr Wayfinder 4 Urborg Lhurgoyf 4 Cruel Somnophage 4 Souls of the Lost 2 Nighthowler 3 Grist, the Hunger Tide 2 Wonder 4 Unearth 3 Brazen Borrower 1 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant 1 Glasspool Mimic Flip 1 Kazandu Mammoth Flip
That's a good base. Take what works and replace what you don't like.
Exp. I've been playing iterations of this for years now and eight one drops are important. You need to start filling your gy ASAP. These are the two best. If you don't want to go into blue, there are cards like Gnawing Vermin but for me, m2 isn't enough. The -1/-1 is helpful so there is some leeway based on META. If I dabble in other colors, Shriekhorn is my go-to.
Satyr's spot can be removed but I play a low land count due to the two modal lands (Glasspool/Mammoth). Mire Triton is another favorite because Deathtouch and gainlfie. It's also a META call. I don't like others like Skull Prophet. If I were playing The Mycotyrant I'd consider it because it 'mills over time' (MOT) but once your opp sees what youre on theyd kill it before you get a chance to use it.
So, in this list I'm 12 goyfs. Eight can self-mill (SM) and the other is useful (Souls) in getting Wonder out of your hand. You can also sac Stitcher to it if you're a T1 Stitcher T2 Souls. Every card in this deck is a permanent besides Unearth so if you fetched at all, you could have a T2 6/6-8/8 Souls of the Lost and that aint to shabby.
I have always played at least 1-2 Nighthowler. It makes those Stitchers, Crabs, and Satyrs a threat and more often than not, takes two spells to kill it (when it's bestowed).
I view this deck as a sort of aggro deck and keeping with 99% creature theme, Grist and Brazen Borrower are my interaction. You can bring in whatever you want (obviously) but it's also provides fliers for Nighthowler, Grist has a built in win-con and protects itself. I always play a Boseiju, Who Endures and if I play more, -1 Unearth for Life from the Loam and if I'm really frisky, I'll add a few more legends, play more of the Channel Lands and another Life/Loam. I've got a oops all Channel lands were all the other lands are Modal and I play Amulet of Vigor with Shriekhorn and use Emry, Lurker of the Loch as a self-mill recur piece. It's fun.
Sidisi is a MOT that can help you go wide. Every time you mill, you get a zombie. I use this in near every build when I'm in color. I've tested Blossoming Tortoise but save that for a Mosswort Bridge version I play and if I can't get that going I want to be able to cast the top end. Shigeki, Jukai Visionary, Molderhulk, Aether Vial + Dryad Arbor help get me there. But just playing the new Squirming Emergence is so much easier than playing all those other cards.
You can find a way to bring in draw, life, other interaction, etc.. it's on you. There are times were I play Jace, the Perfected Mind or Visions of Beyond for draw. Spellstutter Sprite and a few spots for other faeries like Likeness Looter (flying faerie goyfs!).
But that's the base. Do what you want.. because you can literally do anything. I've got a junk list focused on recur with Unearth, Renegade Rallier, Necropanther, Athreos, God of Passage... a jund/grixis list that uses Ob Nixilis, the Adversary and Orcish Bowmasters (sac goyf to etb Ob Nix, Token Ob forces opp to draw 7 for -7 life. Bowmasters deals another 6 plus you get a 6/6 orc token (+2 more for paper Ob +1 if they can't discard). That's a 15 point swing, not including attacks. Another Grixis list that plays Kroxa, Flamewake Phoenix, Seasoned Pyromancer and Ox.
My favorite - game 1, I'm a mill deck that sideboard converts into self-mill game 2. It still deals with the gy but game 1 youre spell heavy and game 2 youre creature heavy.
Anyway, have fun.
4 months ago
Flavuss Explaining your list in multiple different ways doesn’t change anything - I can see from the cards you’ve got here that the deck is going to perform quite clumsily/poorly, and not at-all how you want it to.
If you compare this list to other discard decks (google “The Rock” or “Jund”), you’ll see their creatures are all individually powerful - cards like Tarmogoyf that can provide huge pressure and Seasoned Pyromancer that refills your hand. Conversely, all your creatures are individually weak - they do very little on their own, and generally pose mo real threat without support. That’s a terrible position to be in for a discard deck, as its inevitable both players will end up topdecking, and your opponent is incredibly likely to out-value you.
4 months ago
5 months ago
wallisface Whether this deck ever places in any tournaments remains to be seen, but I'm not about to throw the concept out in favor of making just another scales or taxes deck. If I wanted to do that the copy/paste function would have saved me a lot of time.
I'll answer much of this when I get the description written on how to pilot it. To hit an easy one: Anointed Peacekeeper is a replacement effect, not an ETB trigger, so Hushbringer has no effect on it.
Regarding Hushbringer hitting only three decks in the meta, based off MTG Goldfish data this assertion simply isn't true. In addition to hitting Scam (Dauthi Voidwalker, Seasoned Pyromancer, Grief, Fury), Omnath (Endurance, Omnath, Locus of Creation, Fury, Solitude, Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines), and (both Jeskai and Azorius) Control (Solitude, Wall of Omens, Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines), it also hits Creativity (Archon of Cruelty), Hammertime (Kor Outfitter, Stoneforge Mystic), Temur Rhinos (Fury), Living End (Architects of Will, Grief, Subtlety), Mono-Green Tron (Wurmcoil Engine), Yawgmoth (Young Wolf, Blood Artist, Strangleroot Geist, Endurance, Geralf's Messenger), and Scales (Hangarback Walker, Zabaz, the Glimmerwasp, Arcbound Ravager).
So the decks that Hushbringer doesn't touch are Burn, Murktide, Underworld Breach, and Domain Zoo.
The top 15 decks represent exactly 80% of the meta (per MTG Goldfish), with the four above decks that Hushbringer doesn't touch representing 21.5% of the meta. So assuming Hushbringer has no impact on the missing 20% of the meta not represented by the top 15 decks (definitely untrue, Death and Taxes, Eldrazi Tron, Merfolk and Amulet Titan being four obvious examples that Hushbringer hoses just off the top of my head, but let's pretend) it still prevents something in 58.5% of meta competitive decks.
Granted it's not a great card against all of those decks, but it still disrupts something, while sitting on a 1/2 flying lifelink body.
Regarding those decks that Hushbringer's static ability doesn't impact at all, four quick points:
- She can be an excellent chump blocker or damage trader in a deck with 4x Giver of Runes when the opponent lacks trample, plus lifelink is naturally strong vs burn.
- Not all +1/+1 counters are created equal, you get a lot more mileage on a lifelink flyer than on most other creatures, especially if you're trading.
- Those four decks are generally hosed by other aspects of the deck (by design), i.e. Archon of Emeria hoses Murktide, as does much of the list, frankly. That's not to say it always beats Murktide, but it does hold its ground respectably (at least in my playtesting).
- Our sideboard is designed to help us most vs our weaker matchups, and since it's white it's a pretty solid toolkit. I do think the sideboard could probably be further improved.
In general, since we're trying to deny value and slow down the game, we're looking for mana dumps and value engines that help us grind ahead. The +1/+1 counter engines help us do that, and when placed on a lifelink or vigilance creature punch above their weight.
If you think it's a garbage deck concept then that's fair. I've playtested vs a handful of the top competitive archetypes with surprisingly good results, but it may be that despite my best efforts I'm just no good at piloting other decks. In any case I'll entertain feedback that helps it do what it's meant to do better, but I'm not looking to create just another deck that everyone's seen a million times except with a slight two-card tweak just so I can call it innovation. I hope that makes some sense.
When I get a description written up I hope to make things a bit clearer. Undoubtedly the deck isn't for everyone, and may not ever end up on a meta list. That's ok.
10 months ago
Yeah so the best discard outlet, Faithless Looting, was banned a while ago (victim of HOEgaak that disgusting deck).
The best 2 mana discard outlet in red being played in most reanimation decks is Bitter Reunion currently, because after Persisting an Archon of Cruelty you can give it haste and attack for another trigger which is backbreaking. Here, the second ability is probably less relevant since Goryo's gives haste, but I still think it's better than the other options. The main issue with Faithless Salvaging is that its both slow and you're also going down on card advantage, UNLESS: you play it with cards in your hand, and then cast all cards in your hand, so you only draw a card on rebound (breaking even). Or you cast it with no cards in your hand, drawing two cards over two turns (generating card advantage).
As I said the kind of discard outlet you run generally depends on what you want the deck to do: I'd say they are all tradeoffs between speed and power. On the fastest side we have Haggle, which can be used for turn 2 hasty Boar + Emmy although it requires 4 cards in hand. Somewhere in between but still towards the faster side we have all of the 2 mana discard spells in red. And then further toward the power side we have cards like Collective Brutality. And further still we have all the generally good cards like Fable, Spyro, etc. So basically you need to decide what balance between speed and grinding power you want the deck to have. To try and make it easier I rated all of the options in jund colors I think are worth considering along three criteria: speed, power, and flexibility. Given that this deck is a grindy midrange deck at heart (or at least I think that is what you are aiming for), speed can be useful but power and flexibility are more important in my opinion.
Speed 9 Power 1 Flex 1: Merchant of the Vale (1 mana discard spell, fast but that's all there is)
9, 2, 4: Bone Shards (also fast, but generally more relevant mid/late)
7, 5, 1: Cathartic Reunion (powerful but inflexible, seen in dredge)
7, 2, 4: Cathartic Pyre (flexible but weak)
7, 3, 2: Thrill of Possibility (less all in version of Cathartic Reunion)
7, 3, 4: Bitter Reunion (more flexible vers. of Thrill)
7, 5, 8: Collective Brutality (most flexible 2 cmc discard outlet in BRG)
6, 3, 4: Faithless Salvaging (slow, weak, only generates CA in late game)
5, 6, 5: Territorial Kavu (even slower because requires attack trigger)
4, 7, 7: Seasoned Pyromancer (both powerful and flexible, can generate bodies or CA)
3, 7, 8: Liliana of the Veil (powerful and flexible, threat + removal + discard)
Bone Shards can be used to sacrifice an Ilharg or Emrakul, and if you sacrifice Ilharg it won't get exiled in order to reanimate it again next turn.
Bone Shards, Cathartic Reunion, Thrill of Possibility, and Collective Brutality have the discard as part of the casting cost, so you discard the card(s) even if the spell is countered. Merchant of the Vale, Bitter Reunion, etc do not.
Collective Brutality is maindeckable but the versatility makes it stronger in the sideboard.
Territorial Kavu requires at least 4 basic land types to be effective.
Repeatable/delayed discard effects, such as Liliana of the Veil and Fable of the Mirror-Breaker Flip allow you to discard Emrakul the turn after you cast them and instantly reanimate them, spreading out your mana over two turns.
1 year ago
Containment Construct also good for metalcraft and it's a 2/2 with card advantage so yeah another perfect rec for this deck.
Efreet Flamepainter Maybe one day if there gets to be more instants and sorceries but now I don't think theres enough spell density at 9.
Smuggler's Copter has been in there because if all opponents have blockers it's a way to fly over for damage and card advantage. I Think you are right tho and it's low impact compared to some other recs.
Possibility Storm the angle is that it will prevent just about any combo from being cast. Additionaly I can be pretty sure that when I cast a 2 power creature I will get a 2 power creature while my opponents playing combo and control sit with most of their hand dead. My assault combo can actually be assembled piece by piece during a Possibility Storm whereas most combos involving instants and sorceries such as the dreaded Tainted Pact, Demonic Consultation, Natural Order or Brain Freeze cannot play around the chaos.
Dolmen Gate is useful when opponents have too many blockers. In my current meta however the "creature power 2 or less can't be blocked" ability on Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner is enough to make sure key creatures can attack while not dying to blockers.
1 year ago
wallisface: I agree with you on the point that modern is currently quite healthy.
Regarding your argument of reprinting: It is just not enough to reprint these cards, but they need to be reprinted in a lower rarity.
It's nice that expensive cards like: Wrenn and Six, Force of Negation, Seasoned Pyromancer, Cavern of Souls, Emrakul, Kozilek, Ulamog etc. get reprinted in Double Masters 2022 if they get reprinted as Mythic Rares, but all in all that just feels like a drop in the bucket.
1 year ago
0 drop (20) 1 drop (24) 3 drop (10) 4 drop (3) 3x Bloodbraid Elf
Remember you draw 2 off seazypeezy even if you had no cards to discard when he etb'd