Doomsday

Sorcery

Search your library and graveyard for five cards and remove the rest from the game. Put the chosen cards on top of your library in any order. You lose half your life, rounded up.

Discussion (51)

smilodex on You Are Now a Member ...

1 week ago

Don't try to split it into 2 formats, that's not a viable solution.

Wrong or no communication is the problem, because of that some people think cEDH-players are just rich assholes who are liking to stomp other players.

But I think that Demonic Consultation & Flash are to really difficult cards atm. especially since Oracle is a thing.

For me it would be no problem to unban cards like Biorhythm, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn & Paradox Engine. Commander-Ninjutsu/Derevi kinda effects, Eminence- and Partner-commanders are a bigger problem in my opinion.

Because of the high CMC those card are a lot easier to encouter in comparison to cards like Doomsday, Labman/Oracle/LabJace, Demonic Consultation, Tainted Pact, Flash & stuff.

AAAAND just for consistency and logic reasons: ban Gaea's Cradle because Tolarian Academy and Serra's Sanctum are banned, too.

Gosse on Zur's Quarantine Control

2 weeks ago

Looks greasy! I'd pull out Doomsday from here though and replace it with Tainted Pact With your current land setup it will be easy to make it pactable and it's a much better fit with what the list currently has.

Hoobynobber7395 on Yuriko Inevitability

2 weeks ago

Blinkmoth Infusion and Doomsday would be some spicy includes, Doomsday gets you that easy five card stack to wincon quickly without having to tutor

Ender666666 on Grenzo Doomsday Dash

3 weeks ago

Hi Mironzitos,

Thanks for the comment. All those cards are great and the idea of using them IS solid... Just not fast enough. The goal of this build is to combo off asap. We already have enough combos, so there's not really a need to add any more.

I would add the strategies that you're talking about to a slightly slower, grindier build, where you're planning to not use a Doomsday pile.

Hoobynobber7395 on Yuriko, the Tiger’s Shadow

3 weeks ago

also, i see you have Thassa's Oracle have you thought about adding Doomsday and Demonic Consultation these make Thassa's Oracle a win con

dingusdingo on Dockside Extortionist Loops

1 month ago

Good afternoon to all the lovely folks of TappedOut (except the guy who advocates playing Doomsday and passing). On today's thread, lets discuss Dockside Extortionist loops.

As some of you may be aware, the combo of Dockside Extortionist is used alongside Temur Sabertooth to generate infinite mana, usually in 4 or 5 color shells with a commander as an outlet for winning. The gist of the loop is to create 5 Treasure tokens from Dockside, then use 4 of the tokens to bounce and replay Dockside from the Sabertooth.

This combo has been covered in a few places before, but I keep seeing it! So lets dive into why I personally think this combo should be avoided.

1. Players can scoop

The single biggest reason not to run this combo for winning.

• 104.3a A player can concede the game at any time. A player who concedes leaves the game immediately. That player loses the game.

Conceding is an action that doesn't use the stack, and can immediately stop your combo from executing. Imagine a scenario in which you have 3 opponents, with 5 artifacts/enchantments split among them with a 2/2/1 split (so two opponents have 2 and one opponent has 1). With Sabertooth on the board, you play Dockside to start your loop. An opponent who is knowledgeable of the combo with 2 artifacts/enchantments decides to scoop. Now, instead of winning, your combo is going to be mana negative and no longer works.

But Dingus isn't that unsportsmanlike?

Ethics aside, scooping at will is an action other players can take. Relying on your opponents to act in good faith is a losing strategy. Also consider that there are quite a large number of spiteful players, a problem exacerbated by losing. I can think of more than one game I've seen someone revel in their role of playing Kingmaker (deciding who wins after they lose)

2. Dockside relies on opponent's board state

Relying on your opponent's having a certain board state to execute your combo makes it much more fragile. Even if you're holding both A + B of your combo, having to wait until your opponent's assemble a certain board state means you may end up losing with both pieces available for use.

Also: artifact/enchantment removal in response to the trigger is another vulnerability for this combo. Seeing 5 qualified permanents on the board and having one or two removed puts you under the threshold.

3. Treasure tokens require a tap and activation, and an ETB to be created

Much more minor than the other points, but still a reason. ETB tapped cards see play, especially Root Maze Blind Obedience and Manglehorn. There are a handful of other ones too, like Kismet which are more niche. There are also cards that stop artifact activations, namely Stony Silence and Null Rod but also Karn, the Great Creator. The effects that turn off ETB triggers, namely Hushbringer Hushwing Gryff and Torpor Orb all stop this combo as well.

Counterpoint: Both pieces have high enough independent quality to be worth running

Dockside Extortionist is treated for the most part like a red ritual. Temur Sabertooth has lots of application for resetting valuable ETB effects or saving creatures from removal. A large argument for running this combo is that many decks would want to run both of these cards anyways, and slot efficiency is saved by relying on it for a combo.

I acknowledge this, but wholeheartedly believe that Dockside is much weaker than people realize. Most importantly, the two biggest decks to consider in the EDH meta currently are skewed more towards creatures than artifacts in terms of mana ramp. While these decks do indeed pack artifacts and enchantments, they aren't as prevalent as creatures. Furthermore, the biggest combos in the format currently with Flash Hulk and Fish Consultation don't run artifacts or enchantments, and are cost effective enough where the pilot doesn't need to build a massive rock board state to execute the combo.

Discussion

Do you consider this to be a viable combo for winning? Despite my opinion, I'm certainly interested in gathering more information or perspectives on the combo.

dingusdingo on Yuriko Reality and Consultants - cEDH

1 month ago

"Incorrect, DD pass is a legit line. "

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha holy moly I never thought I'd see the day. Yeah you are not a competitive player. This is just about the most dumb thing you can do while running Doomsday.

"No, it does not. Again, you can DD and pass or just Oracle/Consult/Pact. There are more ways to win than just DD. I focused my primer on the DD side of things because that is what I am experimenting with currently."

Unless you're starting with a hand that has your entire combo, my point is that your card draw is so low outside of getting a god tier top deck you aren't going to draw into your second piece fast enough before someone else wins. The point of layering combos is so that after your first combo is negated via stax or interaction you have a different approach that slips through the interaction or stax pieces. While Oracle + Consult is hard to stax and interact with, if you don't even have the cards in hand it doesn't do anything for you. That's the point. You don't run Mystic Remora or Rhystic Study or Dark Confidant or the suite of 1 CMC blue cantrips or good draw pieces. When Yuriko is shut down, you're simply going to be buried in card advantage from the other 3 players.

"Ruric Thar or Keranos - What? This is not cEDH, not even a little"

Tournament winning list for Ruric

https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ruric-thar-competitive-your-heart-is-a-muscle/

Non tournament winning list but still a viable competitive list for Keranos

https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/keranos-god-of-destruction/

While outdated, both of these lists were viable in cEDH and could still easily be considered tier 2 or tier 3 decks, especially when running against some clown Yuriko list like this one.

"These are better examples, but still not ones I see very often if at all in cEDH."

All the green ones see play in Yisan as well as Selvala as staples. Do you even play competitive?

"Again, better examples but outside of Deluge, Rolling, and Covenant they are not seen much."

Sudden Demise literally sees play all over the place. You're joking me, right? Your entire response is a joke, right?

"It's quotes like this. Show some humility. Those were 6 examples of the most played decks that I see. Every pod has at least 1 of those. I play budgetless cEDH, so these are the most prevalent."

Do you really need me to link you budgetless cedh lists that include these exact cards? How many more lists must I link before you trust that there are lists outside of the 6 you have seen and tested against? Show humility yourself. You've been fighting tooth and nail against everything I've said because I said your deck struggles in certain match ups and because I called you a clown. You've deleted comments that were "too mean" because you got called a clown for making clown deck building choices. Who actually passes after casting Doomsday?

"I play a ton of cEDH and have never once seen Xantcha. This is not locally, this is via cEDH Nexus so there is no meta and it's a VERY large pool of players and I still have never once out of hundreds of games seen this commander."

Anecdotal. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't run. I have played competitive EDH in paper in a 30+ person shop for multiple years and seen all these lists. Does that alone mean you will change your stance? No, because its anecdotal. These lists do appear and you should be mindful of them when brewing. I also have 0 way to verify how many games you've played, but if you legitimately 100% think you can win regularly by using DD then passing, you have probably only played kitchen table with your clown friends. Do you trust that ShaperSavant and friends are good and competitive brewers? Because these cards and these lists show up on their dedicated cEDH database.

https://cedh-decklist-database.xyz/primary.html

Browse through these decks then come back and talk.

"Incorrect, I've DD and passed plenty of times. DD isn't my sole win-con either. DD, Oracle/Consult/Pact, or Triggers."

So after telling all 3 opponents in your pod that you're at half life and about to win on your next turn, they don't kill you or hold up interaction for you? Wow something tells me you don't play competitive Magic.

Also do you think you always have Consult + Oracle in hand? Myopic.

"I have no interest in "carving a name out for myself" but you're obviously offended that my deck has positive feedback so I must be doing something right. I have humility and I don't care about my name, I just care about brewing Yuriko, having fun. I don't get my jollies on shitting on people. Encourage people and support them, don't immediately, in your very first message to them, be condescending. You could have approached me in your first comment and said something like "Nice deck! I am wondering why X or X is not in your deck, can you elaborate on those omissions?", instead of immediately resorting to condescending tones."

I'm under no obligation to tell you "Nice deck" before I give feedback, especially if it isn't a good deck. However, my first comment was "Why don't you run X". Instead of responding, you took the passive aggressive bitch behavior of deleting + writing me a note in your primer instead of just responding and tagging me. Are you seriously triggered by someone asking "Why don't you run X?" Do you consider it condescending when someone questions your deck building choices? Are you literally 15 years old?

dingusdingo on Yuriko Reality and Consultants - cEDH

1 month ago

I'll cede the Nevermore point to you, the commander does indeed slip through it and yes I also know the card isn't played. The larger overall point though is that at any table you only have control over 100 of the 400 cards that see play and being vulnerable to a single card that shuts down your entire strategy is a liability. Especially when you play paper, people don't have 100% powered lists and often substitute hoser or situational cards. Regardless, the deck is still 100% dependent on the commander sticking on the table, and its practically your only source of card advantage. Any deck that handles the commander easily is going to shit all over your pile of 99. Replace Nevermore with Lignify or Kenrith's Transformation or Darksteel Mutation or Song of the Dryads or Imprisoned in the Moon and you have the exact same problem, your deck is shut off when your commander is handled. Rather than engage the actual logic of what I'm saying, you and your buddies are getting caught up on specific cards instead of overall types of interaction.

This deck crumples if it can't get commander triggers. That is the point I've been making. Stop misconstruing it.

You'll notice how when I talked about alternate costs, I even said you don't cast it for the regular CMC normally. I did say that in some situations, especially in grindier games, you may find yourself in a position where you end up casting the actual CMC of cards like Force of Negation as you don't wish to -1 card advantage your hand and you're packing the mana. Once again, why do you ask me if I'm reading your primer when you aren't reading my replies?

Yeah its neat that misdirection handles spells, I never said it didn't. I said it doesn't handle the 3 most important spells resolving in the format right now. I am well aware how it interacts with uncounterable cards. Once again, are you reading what I'm writing? Losing a permanent to Abrupt Decay sucks but losing the game to Tainted Pact is 100% worse. This is extremely easy comparative logic for anyone who is trying to win games.

I never spoke badly about Dark Ritual except to note its a consumable piece of mana, and doesn't help you in creating turn loops. I have no problem with its inclusion.

You must be seriously new if you don't understand that when I say Pyroclasm and variants, I'm talking about cards besides simply Pyroclasm. Every time I've mentioned it I've talked about pyroclasm effects, I'm talking about Anger of the Gods Earthquake Toxic Deluge Rolling Earthquake Fiery Confluence Sweltering Suns Fire Covenant Sudden Demise and Subterranean Tremors. There are also all kinds of "Destroy all creatures" effects that I didn't list. Yes, I am highly aware that 2 damage from pyroclasm doesn't kill Yuriko, but it sets back your board state, and all the other pyroclasm VARIANTS do kill Yuriko. This strategy is also seen in decks like Ruric Thar or Keranos. Its more usually seen in tier 2 decks that are able to engage the meta due to how creature heavy the current meta is. Being proud for playing cedh but only playing against 6 different decks doesn't really give you a huge representation of the viable decks in the format. It means you're still new. Yes its good to be aware of the tier 1 decks and the commonly played decks, but if you're running into more fringe decks that are able to leverage these kinds of cards against you, your deck is going to lose in more places than it should. Especially since many tier 1 partner decks are able to utilize these creature blow out cards with things specifically like Sudden Demise.

This leads into Xantcha being a competitive deck. It is 100% a competitive deck, there are decks besides Flash Hulk you need to be aware of. Especially in the current creature heavy meta, continuously blowing out the board turns your Pyroclasm effects into 3-for-1 or 4-for-1 trades to keep ahead of Blue and Green decks. It isn't a tier 1 deck, but if you play cedh you'll run into this deck or another deck that trades specifically on big creature hate. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/xantcha-combo-control/

Similarly, you'll run into a planeswalker commander like Animatou that is able to run big creature hate effects like Humility that once again, completely blow this deck apart.

I am not friends with SolelySelesnya and I don't know him personally or online. I just find these lists haven't explored new territory with Yuriko.

You guys can spend all day saying I'm rude until you're blue in the face, but I made a simple comment on both lists asking why they didn't run a specific card. Rather than respond, or tag me, or answer me, they deleted the comment and wrote a note about it that I received no notification for, and had to dig to find. Me posting on their lists is not passive aggressive, not being able to even respond to a comment and deleting it is passive aggressive. Also why complain about my tone when you use the same post to engage in the exact behavior you're so mad about? If you had just taken 3 minutes to respond giving your very basic reasoning for card justification instead of deleting comments, we could have had this conversation without you getting upset.

Now to respond to Rad Dummy specifically

If you don't think pyroclasm is cedh playable you need to reevaluate. Look at the proliferation of green due to the 7 mana different turn 1 mana dorks available to the color. Players keep 2 land hands because it includes a Llanowar Elves. Look at the amount of hatebear strategies that are significantly chipped away at from Pyroclasm and variants. Look at value enablers like Edric, Spymaster of Trest or even just Dark Confidant that are blown out by Pyroclasm. For real, the card definitely sees play. Board wipes ARE relevant for Yuriko because without a creature on the board you must cast then pass, not getting the immediate card advantage trigger. You also lose further card advantage from not being able to land other ninjas on players too for additional triggers. Your inability to see this makes me think little of your critical faculties.

Diving Top is indeed a grindier card, but you're missing the point I've been making the entire time. Your ONLY pile cracker outside of your commander is Brainstorm or Thought Scour. When your commander isn't available, your DD is a dead card in hand. Rather than respond to this point, you keep sidetracking about how its too much mana investment or only good for grindier games. Not every game is going to curve perfectly into a turn 4 or 5 win. Running DD and only running a pilecracker via your commander is short sighted. Rather than respond to that point, you keep sidetracking. Have you considered that maybe Doomsday isn't the exact same strategy as the rest of the Yuriko deck? Maybe by choosing to slot DD, you have to include build around cards to help find it and resolve it smoothly?

Its neat that you're getting real upset and want to patronize me about math. I only talked explicitly about mana costs, and didn't misspeak. The ability to start the time warp with 5 mana and take the extra turn into the land drop for the 6 mana for the loop is neat and should be included in the primer for the combo, but the combo has far bigger problems. You also never responded to my point about assuredly getting to 6 mana reliably with 29 lands and 4 pieces of ramp, only 3 of which can execute the loop. You're assuming a lot of Yuriko triggers that are not guaranteed. Once again, the back up combo still relies heavily on getting Yuriko triggers. It isn't helping you in match ups where Yuriko struggles.

• Breezecaller is a creature and can be removed by LITERALLY any color at any point to disrupt the combo
• Mystic requires 3 other islands in play, meaning you absolutely 100% cannot start the combo before turn 4 at the earliest
• Mystic requiring 3 other islands means you are vulnerable to Strip Mine or Wasteland or MLD while setting up
• Mystic returning from GY means literally any piece of targeted grave hate stops this combo. Any deck can run Tormod's Crypt, while many opt for more efficient pieces of GY removal or GY hate
• Time Warp requires a cast every time and can be disrupted. It can also be Misdirection'd lol
• Extra turn hate is present in some decks especially in the form of Stranglehold.

The combo is basically hoping everyone is tapped out or has 0 instants in their hands. While it may be slot efficient with other things that you wish to run, it is by no means efficient or fast overall.

I know you're trying to carve out a name for yourself, but you are clearly inexperienced. Playing against 6 decks that are copies of Shaper lists doesn't encompass the entirety of the competitive scene. Both this deck and your own list are extremely vulnerable to a handful of cards and a couple overarching strategies. Rather than engage critically and employ your big boy thinking pants, you would rather split hairs over "Xantcha could NEVER be competitive viable" or "Go watch casual YT video". My point stands. Rather than engage with honest critique, your ego is much too fragile to imagine that maybe the list you made has problems and isn't perfect. @ me if you wish to continue further discussing these points, otherwise lets save both of us any future headaches and leave this be.