Doomsday

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Premodern Legal
Tiny Leaders Legal
Vintage Legal
Casual Legal
Custom Legal
Quest Magic Legal

Doomsday

Sorcery

Search your library and graveyard for five cards and exile the rest. Put the chosen cards on top of your library in any order. You lose half your life, rounded up.

smack80 on Oloro White Black Blue Creatureless Control

1 month ago

You could replace Temporal Manipulation with Nexus of Fate and then you don't need the soldevi Digger part of the combo. Then you can use Doomsday to make a deck of just Nexus of Fate.

How do you have Energy field but not Rest in Peace? RIP also combos with Helm of Obedience to kill a player. RIP in this combo can used with Leyline of the Void. Either card also hoses graveyard based decks.

Spirits on Yuriko (Optimized) Primer

2 months ago

azja,

I've only played 5 cEDH games so far (won 2 lost 3).

If you ignore the ninjitsu ability on Thousand-Faced Shadow, it's really a better Mothdust Changeling.

Any thoughts on Wash Away? I really can't tell, to counter a commander, or anything impulse cast like s Jeska's Will or Dauthi Voidwalker etc.? Multi-use at MV3.

I'm at 29 lands, hasn't been an issue yet, thinking of going to 30? I'm also short an Imperial Seal really need that card in here unfortunately.

I run Doomsday only tried to win that way once, was counterspell though (too bad).

Temporal Mastery and Temporal Trespass have been great, is there any way to turn them into an immediate win though?

AstroAA on Good Cards That You Just …

2 months ago

Demonic Consultation because it's boring. Doomsday is where it's at as there is more interaction and possibility to screw your own win up; it's a much more exciting card.

Acidic Slime because it cannot be casted with Aluren.

Land ramp in general just cause I prefer fast mana like dorks and rocks. Although, I don't particularly like Smothering Tithe because I think it's one of those cards that people just know to target. It comes out and eats a removal spell as soon as it resolves - if it resolves at all. If I was going to bait a removal spell, I'd rather do it with a cheaper card CMC-wise like Esper Sentinel.

AstroAA on Convoluted Combos

2 months ago

jaymc1130 Now you've made me want to build a Sultai deck, haha.

I'm quite familiar with both combos you mentioned. I run the Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter combo in my Oona deck, where I also run Thassa's Oracle. However, I don't run Demonic Consultation because I think that its a boring card. Instead I run Doomsday because I think the concept of exiling most of your library and being left with five cards to stitch together a win is hilarious. In addition, it still leaves a bit of room for interaction from the other players - which is what I don't like about Demonic Consultation.

I think the reason why I like large and extravagant combos can be traced to my first little foray into cEDH with Selvala, Heart of the Wilds back in 2016~2017. I loved having to do a bunch of little things first before I could do a big thing in order to win. Since then, I've always tried to build combo decks to the point where they're like a large machine, and every card fits into it and enables something somewhere.

Regardless, thank you so much for inspiring the absolute mess that was the graphic/combo. I just think it's hilarious that this 10-card combo pretty much solely results in infinite mana, but can easily be expanding to helping my commander, Titania, Protector of Argoth, do what she wants to simply by having her out. There are a bunch of applications to this combo and I'm excited to sort of start looking at the deck in a different light trying to see what all cards work in ways similar to this.

azja on Yuriko (Optimized) Primer

2 months ago

Hey @Spirits, sorry for taking so long to get back to you! You asked such detailed questions, so I wanted to make sure I had time to write out detailed answers :D

Karn's Temporal Sundering vs Capture of Jingzhou:

Like you said, just a budget consideration. Yuriko is my pet deck so I don’t use any proxies, but I highly encourage it for others! While the bounce effect of Karn's Temporal Sundering is nice, I’m thinking of replacing it with Time Warp or just cutting it altogether for Treasure Cruise.

Enablers:

Since I don’t have any combos, I’m all in on the Yuriko damage plan. So having an enabler at all times is much more crucial for me, which is why I play 15 of them. Comparing my list to others, it seems 15 is on the higher end, so you could probably get away with cutting a couple. You’re correct about Tormented Soul, it can’t be pitched to Force of Will, as well as the mana base being more blue-heavy. As for the flying enablers, they’re included for redundancy (since there aren’t 15 unblockable 1-drops). It’s pretty rare for every opponent to have a flying/reach blocker, and we don’t really care who we attack, so flying does a pretty good impression of unblockable. Plus, many of them have relevant abilities, especially Faerie Seer’s scry 2 and Wingcrafter which can give Yuriko flying. If you’re mainly trying to win with combo, I wouldn’t play any of the 2 mana enablers except Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive. But don’t underestimate Augury Owl in the “winning with big spells” shell!

Kaito Shizuki

I haven’t tried him out yet, so I’m also unsure whether he makes the cut. Normally I wouldn’t consider playing a planeswalker, since we’re not very good at blocking to keep them around for longer than one turn. But with Kaito, we’re guaranteed 2 activations since he phases out eot, so I think he’s worth testing out for sure.

Win-Cons:

I think the wincons you described are all totally viable. Most of the cEDH Yuriko lists win with Thassa's Oracle + Demonic Consultation or Tainted Pact since it’s only 2 cards and 3-4 mana (and tough to interact with outside of counterspells). Doomsday is significantly weaker than fish-consul, but its also a reasonable win-con. It’s convenient that cards that would go in the doomsday pile such as Gitaxian Probe and Street Wraith are already good cards for the deck anyway. When I first built this deck, I didn’t include doomsday for power level considerations. Now, I doubt doomsday would be too powerful for my playgroup to handle, but I decided to leave it out since I prefer to win with Yuriko’s ability.

Scheming Symmetry

Scheming symmetry is pretty much my budget replacement for Imperial Seal until we get a reprint. It’s true that you can do some cute plays with Nashi, Moon Sage's Scion or Fallen Shinobi. But most of the time, I save it until someone is below 16 life, choose them to tutor with me, put Draco on top of my library, and eliminate them before they can use the card they grabbed.

Mutavault

I’m a big fan of Mutavault since it allows me to rebuild a turn earlier after a boardwipe, or just to have an extra ninja that usually goes unnoticed by your opponents. Unfortunately, colourless lands are really, really awkward in this deck, so I wouldn’t play more than 1 or 2 at the most.

Drowned Catacomb, etc.

Since I’m currently playing 10 basics, I usually don’t have any problems with Drowned Catacomb and Sunken Hollow entering tapped. As for Mystic Sanctuary, it definitely sucks when you draw it and have to play it as a tapped island. But, imo it makes up for it in the late game when you can grab it with a fetch land and put an expensive spell on top of your library in response to a Yuriko trigger. If you’re including Tainted Pact, or just playing less basics in general, I would definitely cut those lands for City of Brass or River of Tears, like you mentioned.

Colourless Mana

I touched on this a bit in the Mutavault discussion, but you definitely want to stay away from colourless lands as much as possible. Although Ancient Tomb and Gemstone Caverns are really powerful lands in a vacuum, the early mana they provide isn’t worth it imo. I definitely agree with you that Reliquary Tower is a trap. I wouldn’t play it in very many decks in general, especially not in Yuriko. As for Glacial Chasm and Maze of Ith, they aren’t played enough in my playgroup for me to need an answer for them. But if they did become more popular, my plan would likely be to cut Mutavault and include Strip Mine/Wasteland instead.

I hope everything I explained made sense and was helpful to ya! Don’t hesitate to ask me more questions!

Spirits on Yuriko, Shadow of Fate EDH

3 months ago

Wow thanks Virlym!!!

Agreed Thrasios, Triton Hero or a Kess, Dissident Mage way more value for Fish-Consul, was hoping for some flavor, along with the easiest win in commander today. Goal is to build a fun, rogue style deck, but that I can play in High power format games, 8+. I'll think on the fish overnight, certainly is powerful (and lots of interaction in the format to deal with it, a couple you identified). Doomsday without fish wouldn't be good either, too much work and weird cards would have to be put in without it. I defintely want a focused strategy not just play stuff for needing to play it.

Agreed Mana Vault is wrong, not on curve, going to replace that one with something. Dark Ritual I think I might need, a T1 Opposition Agent or Nashi, Moon Sage's Scion, maybe an Arcane Signet into an Unblockable with a Sensei's Divining Top lots of scenarios I can see using that {b}{b}{b} Dauthi Voidwalker that grabs me a fetchland I can use to not miss my T3 land drop, etc.

For Mox Opal I haven't done an analysis "yet", i have calculated the hypergeometric probabilities and charted them, see Kaalia Deck, but it's generally low, even lower with no Mana Vault.

The land selection supports the Thassa's Oracle + Tainted Pact, if you have any duplicate cads (including basic lands) then Tainted Pact doesn't work as a Tutor or a win enabler. I included the basic & it's snow-covered counterpart for maximum coverage there. I'm prioritizing lands that 1) Never enter tapped, 2) are T1 useable lands. Spire of Industry might not be right, similar argument to Mox Opal what is it's activation probability. Could go back to Tarnished Citadel or Ancient Tomb maybe? I dont like the colorless, or maybe just an Island like Cephalid Coliseum. I've tried finding another dual colored land that meets the criteria but can't which is why I landed on Spire of Industry. If I abandon fish-pact, can add more basics.

Satoru Umezawa I had a hard time. His CMC4 activated ability is useless, I was more evaluating on the following 1) Whenever Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow commander ninjitsu, I get to a) Look at the top 3 cards of library, b) Choose one for my hand (a counterspell or land or something), c) was a ninja lol. Looking again, his ability isn't a "may" so he's actually going to break the sorcery speed top deck manipulators like Imperial Seal or Personal Tutor, so he's bad, needs to come out, the draw isn't worth disrupting the synergy of the deck.

Viscera Seer has goldfished ok with me so far, why i've liked him a) He is CMC 1, so could be an early swing unblocked to commander ninjitsu and doesn't cost much to recast, b) He can put Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow back into the command zone, so that she can commander ninjitsu in "unblockable" again, dont want her stuck on the board with no way to attack, c) The top deck manipulation helps drawing what you need when you need it or getting rid of a card so that you can connect with a bigger spell. He also protects my stuff from exile effects, or effects that might turn her into an indestructible insect or a land or whatever all those things want to do! d) Can block and sac against lifelink (if that matters, probably not), not giving their footing back when I'm trying to kill with my Yuriko ability. He's not critical value, but having a way to consistently cast that unblockable, commander ninjitsu, replay the unblockable and get Yuriko back in command zone, is good isn't it? Cunning Evasion dpes this for all ninjas where Viscera Seer only works with Yuriko.

Praetor's Grasp probably wrong. Reevaluating there thanks.

I don't like that Grazilaxx, Illithid Scholar only triggers once, thought he was for each creature. Hmm. If unblocked draw a card. If blocked return to hand vs. if blocked return to hand. Grazilaxx, Illithid Scholar gives them additional incentive to block, but not much more, it's an extra card per turn, with the unblockables it should be anyway, so like a Phyrexian Arena with a second ability? Easier to remove. Cunning Evasion really just de-incentifies the block, especially if Yuriko on the field, but most stuff is unblockable or will draw a card. So point taken, is the extra card here or there worth the extra mana, and making it easier to remove, hmm. Maybe both are good?

Opposition Agent agent certainly is good stuff, but it has so many benefits a) It's a CMC3 instant speed tutor (for a land, any card, multiple lands, etc). It's going to get you something you want b) It's an essential stax piece, the higher power you get, the more value he is, essentially it stax locks down oppoents lands (too many fetches not enough basics the higher you get), finding an answer to you board (no looking for a board wipe for your ninjas (high power usually have 1 or 2 and rely on tutors to find it when needed), or even looking for an answer to Yuriko. Opponents durtle under Opposition Agent unless they have a removal "in hand" forces them to draw into a solutions, under a restricted mana base, decks playing 10-20 tutors shuts down 20% of their deck, slows them down etc. Until they ban this card that should never have been printed, or at least printed in White instead, have to play him. In Mid>High games or lower, he's far less useful as you see more basic lands, or more enters tapped, more draw effects and fewer tutors understandably.

This is really fantastic discussions, appreciate it, hopefully not consuming too much of your time :)

Thousand-Faced Shadow, I got hyper focused on his CMC4 ninjitsu for a "lack luster" ability and didn't even consider he's a CMC1 with flying evasion built in, that's also a ninja! Who cares about his dumb ability! He's going in 100%.

Mist-Syndicate Naga he's really just a 3/1 for 3 (bad), no evasion (bad), ninjitsu is CMC3 (bad, why not CMC1?). He replicates and then exponentially populates, but you can't bounce the copies to hand to protect them, and as with exponential growth, it's the T1-3 growth that kills you, the game isn't going to go long enough for him to deliver the value he could, let's say on T14 of a game, his T4 swinging. It's extra draw, but how is this guy getting through all these times to draw the cards, and why would I even Ninjitsu him lol. Can't get there on this guy.

Moon-Circuit Hacker and Ninja of the Deep Hours I keep thinking about though, their Ninjitsu costs are reasonable, but can't decide what they take the place of, a control card? a tutor card? That tutor finds me a win-con piece, a big spell for Yuriko to hit with, or a Ninja that delivers more advantage. However, if Yuriko is offline for whatever reason, they can draw into a solution themselves. In reconsidering mode on those. Thought I was close to having the list, your points have made me reconsider so many things.

The other low-cost ninjitsu are a little too situational and for like Mid>High games where board state matters more. The higher you get, the less important a board state is, and other than disrupting 1 player at sorcery speed (since Ninjitsu is on your turn, during attack, and only unblocked) it's utility is low. If the games are 5-7 power level, things tend to come out, wait around a turn before they do their thing in 7+ "usually" the thing comes out and it's already done it's thing Dockside Extortionist or a creature with haste that activates, etc. There are some exceptions like an Esper Sentinel or something, but in general Destroy/bounce are usually bad, want Exile at instant speed to have more "interaction".

Doomsday isn't really necessary, it's just an easy T1 win-con that tutors all the cards in combo. I haven't figured the stack but probably 1BBBB (5CMC T1 win), 1BB with a dark ritual. I'll build the stacks but that seems right. T2 win with lots like Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox. I'm just not 100% sold if it's needed and also means can cut Plunge into Darkness as well, although I think Night's Whisper would still stay even without Doomsday. Fish-consul is UUB T1 or Fish-pact 1UUB, so there are more efficent lines than Doomsday. There is a BBB Doomsday win-line but too many cards that don't synergize well with the commander in the deck.

Thanks so much, a bunch more modifications to the decklist coming tonight! Was extremely helpful.

Virlym on Yuriko, Shadow of Fate EDH

3 months ago

Honestly, I wouldn't bother with the Thassa's Oracle line. There's much better generals out there for it over Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow (like any Thrasios, Triton Hero deck partnered with something that has black in it). Doomsday could still work with Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow as a game ender tho if you really wanted to keep that in. It's really your call, but I never liked setting myself up to lose if something gets countered (Trickbind makes you lose to the Thassa's Oracle line, and something like Angel's Grace will make you lose to the Doomsday line). Having said that, the following will assume you are focusing on Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow, and not a planted "good-stuff" strategy.

glaring issues in a general sense from your list :
1)You have poor ramp choices for Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
2)Your land base is too awkward and has unnecessary things in it.
3)You have some turtle cards that don't really have much use in Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow

1)Mana Vault is more for a deck that wants big explosive turns, not ramp for small things over multiple turns. You are hardly ever going to want to dump 4 mana into untapping it. Same concept applies to Dark Ritual as well, especially considering it only gives you black mana. Lotus Petal falls into this category as well to an extent. You don't want explosive turns, you want consistent pressure. Mox Opal makes you life more complicated for a potential free mana, which leads into the next issue.

2)Your land choice is too awkward. You have artifact lands to turn on Mox Opal, but they serve no other purpose and can be wiped out with artifact removal. If you are running so many different lands, you generally want to be taking advantage of something where that matters (like Field of the Dead, and you usually want to avoid using the non-indestructible artifact lands unless you have a lot of artifact synergies. They are too vulnerable to just have for 1 or 2 cards. You have more fetch lands than you have targets for those fetches. You have 3 black fetchs, 3 blue fetches, 1 black/blue fetch, and 1 basic land fetch. You only have 4 basic lands, and 2 fetchable dual lands (giving you 8 fetches for 6 targets). Spire of Industry is honestly too reliant on other things that it can basically be counted as a colorless land with no utility.

3)Satoru Umezawa is cute, but doesn't help in a Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow. It's main purpose is to cheat in big things for 4 mana. Anything you have over 4 mana should already have a ninjutsu reduction to that. Spellseeker is only good for the Thassa's Oracle line and has no real impact with Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow aside from tutoring for a tutor, which is awkward (Solve the Equation follows the same line of thought). Viscera Seer's scry ability may seem decent to try and find something for Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow, but you would need to sac ninjas or enablers, which would lower the amount of triggers you would get. The only real payoff for it is if you're trying to win that turn and you sac your ninjas after they trigger Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow. Praetor's Grasp is too reliant on your opponent having something useful to you, and isn't reliable enough for what Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow wants to be doing. And if you're using it to remove you opponent's wincons from their deck, you might as well just use something like Extract for that as it's cheaper, or Sadistic Sacrament as it will hit more targets. Grazilaxx, Illithid Scholar is a little too fragile for the bounce it gives and you would be better off running Cunning Evasion. The card draw on it really isn't necessary. Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow tends to give you more cards than you need, you don't need additional card draw reliant on damage. Opposition Agent kinda just falls under the "good-stuff" category and will most likely have a prompt death by any1 after you get a land off it, otherwise if kinda just sits in your hand and people will assume it's just a counter.

Ninjas of note that aren't included: Thousand-Faced Shadow, get it, it's too good. 1 drop flier is an enabler spot, but it is also a ninja. Later on, it can be used to double up some ninja triggers as a toolbox card. Mist-Syndicate Naga, expanding your ninja army is really nice and forces value from your opponents to deal with the growing threats. Moon-Circuit Hacker / Ninja of the Deep Hours, extra card draw on cards ninjas with low ninjutsu costs.

Some more meta call ninjas: Throat Slitter / Dokuchi Silencer, removal is nice, especially when it's already lending towards what you already want to be doing and not taking up additional space. Mistblade Shinobi temp creature removal, can set people back a turn if you hit something big, has a tap effect, etc. Skullsnatcher, graveyard hate.

Spirits on Yuriko, Shadow of Fate EDH

3 months ago

freezerboy, Sadistic Sacrament would be bad, hopefully have a counterspell onboard if that gets cast! I think Cruel Tutor would be good here too, to set the top deck.

Jack_Dashing, thanks for the post on the other deck I commented, appreciated. Valid point, I'm going to move Viscera Seer to the Ninja's category. Really he just sacrifices Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow to get Commander Ninjitsu back in play, and hopefully scry a nice card to the top of the library, so he's really like a Ninja since he just re-enables the Ninjitsu. He can be an early T1 play that also can connect if an opponent has no blockers to commander ninjitsu and return him to hand, then recast, and sac the Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow, but doesn't have any evasion to speak of.

I'm trying to figure out how to get, Cruel Tutor (maybe remove Grim Tutor or Doomsday/Plunge into Darkness) and a backup plan to Thassa's Oracle, maybe Laboratory Maniac in? Since Doomsday just relies on Thassa's Oracle anyway, it's not really a backup.

A Doomsday + Plunge into Darkness or a Doomsday + Street Wraith or a Doomsday + Thassa's Oracle all rely on Thassa's Oracle anyway. Doomsday just let's me tutor the setup with a lot more cards (cantrips in hand, thassa's in hand, plunge in hand), so unsure really if it's the right card. Could just tutor up the thassa's/consul instead, but thats 2 tutors vs. 1.

Also, wonder if anyone just has a deck thats 30 lands, 25 tutors (Tatsunari, Toad Rider, CMC1/2 green tutors for Thassa's Oracle, CMC 1/2/3 blue tutors for Tainted Pact, CMC 1/2/3 black tutors for anything (counters/combo pieces). It wouldn't be very resilient without any draw, maybe have a couple strong draws you can tutor.

I like the ninja flavor though, seems like a bit of work to get going, but it's quick, low on the curve, draw built into the commander. Certainly competitive speed.

Also feel Mothdust Changeling is going to give me value as well. Not sure what changes I need in here. If I abandon Doomsday is there another alt. win (Show and Tell + Omniscience + Enter the Infinite maybe? They all punch people in the face with Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow, or is hitting with the high cmc extra turns spells good enough?

I watched a Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow on a youtube, it just pulled cards like Draco and such to top of library, but those cards never get cast, feel every card should at least have play value vs. just being a damage source, but have no play experience with this, hoping build 1 not to invest in a bunch of cards that will get cut as I learn to play it, but feel its a good start as is, a few more tweaks?

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