Demonic Consultation

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Premodern Legal
Tiny Leaders Legal
Vintage Legal
Casual Legal
Custom Legal
Quest Magic Legal

Demonic Consultation

Instant

Name a card. Remove the top six cards of your library from the game, then reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal the named card. Put that card into your hand and remove all other cards revealed this way from the game.

enpc on Dawnwalker

2 weeks ago

Given that you don't have access to black (and so can't run Tainted Pact/Demonic Consultation), Thassa's Oracle becomes less good here as you are reliant on generating infinite mana prior to playing it. Basically the card is the same as any other infinite mana combo, except that you can potentially help out other players if they Praetor's Grasp you. You also have to pay double blue for it, making it harder to cast than say just a Walking Ballista.

You do already have the backup line of infintie mana + Emiel the Blessed + Eternal Witness + instant/sorcery + Swan Song, so you can probably ditch it for another card.

I would also agree with Grubbernaut in that cards like Noble Hierarch and Avacyn's Pilgrim are good includes here. You run a lot of dorks that cost green but only produce green so swapping one or two out for dorks that can mana fix is a good move.

13579f on Master Oogway

1 month ago

you're running emergent ultimatum in this. I would suggest also running Rune-Scarred Demon + Thassa's Oracle +Demonic Consultation as a combo wincon. that way you get the most out of that spell (in my opinion)

Decrepit_Angel on [Primer] Colored Mana is for the Weak

2 months ago

Profet93

Yeah, that is an unfortunate downside of mono-colorless. Collector Ouphe, Null Rod, and Stony Silence are really bad cards for this deck to see. I always try to tutor or mulligan for an Inspiring Statuary when I expect to see those cards as it allows me to still use my artifacts to cast stuff like Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Karn Liberated, All Is Dust, Emrakul, the Promised End, etc. Typically I try to outspeed the artifact hate but as that is not always an option, Inspiring Statuary or politics tends to be the best option. It also helps that other decks tend to get hurt by such artifact hate so I am not always the one that has to deal with it.

As for the power level, I tried to make it as powerful as possible for the sake of having a decent chance at a cEDH power level table. A max power level Kozilek is typically around the power level of a budget cEDH deck so it tends to play well at that kind of table. Given the ridiculous speed of the deck though, I have had good matchups against full pods of max power cEDH decks. Very few decks can shrug off Annihilator 4 on turn 3. Also, Mindslaver effects are hilariously good against cEDH decks. Especially with how many Necropotence, Ad Nauseam, Tainted Pact, Demonic Consultation, etc. effects are common in cEDH. Even outside of that, just using their own removal spells on their stuff or exiling their commander if it is a deck that relies on it to win (and choosing to put it into exile of course) can completely kill off opposing players on the spot. Emrakul, the Promised End is my go to answer for cEDH decks as the cast trigger almost always just kills an opponent on cast, even if she gets countered.

As for additional stax, I already run Torpor Orb and I quite like it. Cursed Totem is interesting (and if nothing else is a good budget option). I liked Cursed Totem a lot more when Flash + Protean Hulk was a thing. Perhaps it is just my meta but I don't see too many decks that make me want a Cursed Totem effect. Winter Orb has been underperforming of late so I might trade those out and see if I like it. It cuts off my Metalworker, Palladium Myr, and Burnished Hart but I think that is acceptable given how much it can hurt some decks. Worst case scenario, I could always just treat it the same way I use something like The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale where I just mulligan or Bazaar of Baghdad it away if it is a meta that it isn't useful.

Guerric on Good Cards That You Just …

3 months ago

I agree on Thassa's Oracle and Demonic Consultation and other boring win cons that everyone runs. If you are going to do combo, at least be creative and have a wide variety of ways to go about it.

Also, I hate any cards that can combo and win the game but are otherwise horrible on their own, like Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer. These cards are just horrible if you are not using Necrotic Ooze or Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to win with them, and I hate cards that are bad on their own and will sit uselessly in my hand until I can win with them. It was good to get that off my chest.

Niko9 on Good Cards That You Just …

3 months ago

AstroAA Couldn't agree more on Smothering Tithe : ) I used to play it and the few times it hung around, I just didn't want it anymore. It was like, I don't want to keep asking everyone, can I just please sac it for no reason, I thought I wanted to be here but now that I am I regret it.

And I'm so glad I never see Demonic Consultation I feel like that's one of those, you just can't play it nice, cards.

AstroAA on Good Cards That You Just …

3 months ago

Demonic Consultation because it's boring. Doomsday is where it's at as there is more interaction and possibility to screw your own win up; it's a much more exciting card.

Acidic Slime because it cannot be casted with Aluren.

Land ramp in general just cause I prefer fast mana like dorks and rocks. Although, I don't particularly like Smothering Tithe because I think it's one of those cards that people just know to target. It comes out and eats a removal spell as soon as it resolves - if it resolves at all. If I was going to bait a removal spell, I'd rather do it with a cheaper card CMC-wise like Esper Sentinel.

AstroAA on Convoluted Combos

3 months ago

jaymc1130 Now you've made me want to build a Sultai deck, haha.

I'm quite familiar with both combos you mentioned. I run the Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter combo in my Oona deck, where I also run Thassa's Oracle. However, I don't run Demonic Consultation because I think that its a boring card. Instead I run Doomsday because I think the concept of exiling most of your library and being left with five cards to stitch together a win is hilarious. In addition, it still leaves a bit of room for interaction from the other players - which is what I don't like about Demonic Consultation.

I think the reason why I like large and extravagant combos can be traced to my first little foray into cEDH with Selvala, Heart of the Wilds back in 2016~2017. I loved having to do a bunch of little things first before I could do a big thing in order to win. Since then, I've always tried to build combo decks to the point where they're like a large machine, and every card fits into it and enables something somewhere.

Regardless, thank you so much for inspiring the absolute mess that was the graphic/combo. I just think it's hilarious that this 10-card combo pretty much solely results in infinite mana, but can easily be expanding to helping my commander, Titania, Protector of Argoth, do what she wants to simply by having her out. There are a bunch of applications to this combo and I'm excited to sort of start looking at the deck in a different light trying to see what all cards work in ways similar to this.

jaymc1130 on Convoluted Combos

3 months ago

AstroAA Sometimes a silly initial idea can lead to a fundamentally powerful truth. That's part of why our group initially started running the original Bloom Combo in any Sultai shell. There are lots of combos in the game that are very powerful, and evaluating total efficiency in competitive settings can help a player win more games by streamlining deck play patterns through deck construction techniques.

For example, a quick comparison of some of the combos we've discussed so far, Bloom Combo, Dramatic Scepter Combo, and Thoracle Consult Combo.

Thassa's Oracle + Demonic Consultation requires 2 card slots in a deck to be able to produce a win with a total mana investment of . It's not just compact in mana investment and card slots, it's also stack compact, requiring just the Oracle trigger, holding priority, and the Consult naming a card not in the deck. All of these factors combine to make it extremely efficient at the job it does and this comes with the trade off of extremely high risk to go with such an efficient maximum reward. If your attempt gets stuffed at the point where you exile your deck but your Oracle trigger doesn't resolve successfully then you get to enjoy perhaps a turn cycle before dying immediately on your next upkeep. Extreme efficiency with the trade off of some knuckle whitening risk. It makes this a great combo to employ at a moment's notice in situations where you can fit it in while opponents didn't leave themselves with enough resources to defend against the line of play, but not usually ideal being used into the full grip and untapped mana bases of opponents ready to interact and the two cards won't generate much value while waiting for the opportune moment as they sit in hand.

Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal is a 2 card combo that generates infinite untaps of nonland permanents with a minimum of 1 additional card that itself is a nonland mana producing permanent (ie, Sol Ring). The loop can become mana positive with certain cards or combinations of cards (Mana Vault, or Arcane Signet+Sol Ring). And that infinite mana can be used with some sort of outlet card to produce a win. So it's a combo that at a minimum will require 4 cards to produce a win, though more often 5 or 6. The mana investment is to play and activate, which is more efficient than the number of card slots that will need to be dedicated to it. It's a combo with components that will have at least some value over time before the combo is activated outright since those dorks and rocks can probably cast another spell, so it has some natural play pattern efficiency. If stuffed, there's a pretty decent chance of losing access to this combo in the future. If the Scepter is destroyed in response to it's first activation, for example, you'll be out the exiled Dramatic Reversal from the imprint even if you can get the Scepter back into play later on. So still maximum reward potential, but less impactful risk to go with the slightly less efficient overall set up since you won't lose if stuffed. It's a combo that can be played pretty easily into opponents ready to defend since it will generate mana to interact with them after starting it's loop and the mana investment on your end is pretty low, but an easy one to interact with for opponents so it's liable to be one they stuff if thrown out wily nilly.

Summer Bloom + Mystic Sanctuary + Waterlogged Grove + Squandered Resources + Ramunap Excavator + Noxious Revival + green land is 7 pieces in total, but one is only needed as the "outlet" (Noxious Revival to loop the deck) and another can be essentially any random land that might be lying around to bring the core down to those 5 unique cards. With the initial 6 cards in place and Revival in the deck the initial mana investment can be as low as to begin the line of play by casting the Summer Bloom. If some of the other pieces aren't in play then the initial investment cost isn't quite so shockingly efficient, but the combo is still solid in terms of card slot and mana investment efficiency when not wowing. Not much risk if the attempt is stuffed, and there's a decent chance you can just try again by saccing the Sanctuary and replaying it to get the Summer Bloom back if countered for example, but the same maximum potential reward of winning the game. Most of the pieces of the combo are value components themselves so they fit naturally into most board state development play patterns allowing you to both spend resources reacting to opponents and amass resources in play and in hand when they don't present serious threats. By far the most conservative of these 3 combos, but far more flexible in it's approach while minimizing potential risks to lose the game.

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