|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Ravnica: City of Guilds (RAV)||Uncommon|
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Creature — Elf Shaman
Tap four untapped creatures you control: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
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|Have (4)||Lucretian , rikertchu , XxCataclysmiCxX , goodair|
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Nullmage Shepherd Discussion
1 month ago
Hey there! I love Ghave as it's one of my favorite decks to play since I got into Commander six years ago. My list is here:
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 45 | 37 COMMENTS | 6561 VIEWS | IN 14 FOLDERS
Just to give you a perspective of where my advice comes from.
Ghave + a source of +1/+1 counters + any way to make mana = infinite tokens or death triggers. To capitalize on this, I included a bunch of ways to replenish counters in my Ghave deck, like Ivy Lane Denizen, Undying creatures like Young Wolf, Strangleroot Geist, Butcher Ghoul, and Geralf's Messenger, etc., are all extremely useful because they let you turn 1 mana into 1 (or more) token(s) if you have a sacrifice outlet like Yahenni, and goes infinite with Ashnod's Altar (and in the case of Geralf's Messenger, kills everyone before even entering combat. It's one of Ghave's fastest combos not involving Protean Hulk). Ivy Lane Denizen needs no sac outlet, and just lets you make tokens equal to your mana at any time, but the Undying creatures generate value best when a sac outlet is in play- like Viscera Seer or maybe Carrion Feeder. Sadistic Hypnotist is a great option too, and Blasting Station lets you ping off opponent's creatures when combined with Undying creatures pretty easily (1 mana = 1 damage and 1 token, generally).
Fecundity would also be pretty decent in here as you'd draw a bunch off of the creatures you sacrifice. Cryptolith Rite would give you mana for more than two turns. Eldrazi Monument could easily provide a buff, evasion, and indestructible as well, all for the cost of just sacrificing one Saproling.
To fit the aforementioned cards in, I'd recommend removing the following: Gaea's Blessing (shuffling back in with so few tutors will make it very difficult for you to get those cards again. It's also not very good as an anti-mill defense, so Blessing seems mediocre), Necrogenesis just seems to be worse Fungal Plots and I don't see why you'd need two of this effect, and you probably have too much single-target removal. Sweepers function in Commander because you can eliminate multiple threats of your opponents with 1 card, while 1 for 1 answers will leave you needing more cards in hand, badly, especially if your opponents have multiple threats. Things like Fell the Mighty, Slaughter the Strong, Elspeth, Sun's Champion's -2, etc., might be better than running 8 single target creature removal spells (not to mention the enchantment/artifact removal spells, which could probably be consolidated to Nullmage Shepherd or something repeatable).
Beast Within and Anguished Unmaking are two of the best permanent removal options you have, and I would easily recommend dropping Death Mutation (too much mana and sorcery speed is ick) and Seed Spark to fit those in. They hit practically anything, and while you're not producing Saproling tokens by casting them, you have more efficient ways to obtain Saprolings by including more sacrifice outlets and Undying creatures into the deck.
Anyway, long comment, I know, but hopefully this helps. If you need any information on combos, I have a bunch listed in my deck's description.
2 months ago
After looking at your deck, this aggro approach seems very doable and nasty, but theres a handful of cards I see that just shouldn't be included. Nature's Spiral is just a worse Regrowth, so that's a start. I see with all of the artifact removal that stax is an issue for you. Bane of Progress is a great addition to solve this, but i would take out one of your removal spells for Nature's Claim. You don't care about their life gain when elves can smash for 100+ damage. Another great way to give a stax deck the middle finger is Creeping Corrosion. The card rarely hurts you and gives them a hell of a time. Krosan Grip is a fantastic card that also helps in this situation. For these 3 excuses to shit on rocks, I'd at least take out Sundering Vitae and Natural End. Nullmage Shepherd is a fantastic elf to throw in your deck to solve this issue as well. Hum of the Radix is also a fun little card for artifact decks that no one will expect you to drop. If you need enchantment removal, just throw in Back to Nature and you'll be fine. If you're having a hard time with killing creatures, run Taunting Elf, or just run it anyways if you can regenerate it and hit people for free every turn. Aluren will help your elfball rolling, and running Primal Rage will help make sure that even when Ezuri is gone that you get your damage through. Talara's Battalion was a cool card I experimented with in my deck, and it did quite a bit of damage. I would definitely include Marwyn for her beefy presence and massive mana ramp. Something like Predator's Rapport is just not useful, as gaining life tends to be some of the most useless magic cards unless you're running a deck that focuses on it. Instead I would try to tutor for a card like Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen, Nissa Revane, Wellwisher, or Essence Warden which help a lot more with solving this problem. Triumph of the Hordes is a great meme to drop on your opponents in a tough situation, as it gives you a nice little one shot, or at least eats through indestructibly and "prevent all damage" creatures. Most of the artifacts you run arent necessary, so I would just replace them with lands. While you have an extremely low mana curve, 28 lands is very dangerous with no rocks. Unless you add some very fancy $$$ rocks (which if you dont wanna drop 1k on artifacts), I would just run some more forests. Primal Order was a neat card I haven't seen in a while, and I think that can prove very useful in your deck if you're having a hard time getting through to other opponents running decks with multiple colors. If you want to stick with the aggro theme, I would add a Coat of Arms, since by the time you hit turn five you'll have about 4-5 elves, and this can turn 7 damage into 50. The risk of helping your opponents is worth it. Selvala, Heart of the Wilds is actually insane in this deck, and if your opponent draws a card or two off of it, nobody is gonna care. She can give you a ridiculous amount of mana with Ezuri pumps and elves like Drove of Elves. Concordant Crossroads is an absolute necessity if your goal is aggro. This card hurts sometimes, especially if your opponent has a creature-heavy deck. The payoff is huge though when you drop mana dorks with haste or drop your hand on the field, tap your Priest of Titania for a crazy amount, and have Ezuri pummel everyone with your hasty elves. As for mana doublers, you can run whatever you'd like, although I would say you don't need any of them for the deck to work: they're just a waste of a turn. Over all the others, I would run Mana Reflection so that your elves can tap for double as well as anything else. Overall, this deck is pretty solid, and with a few tweaks it could be an unstoppable force! Let me know if you need any other suggestions on anything else (:
3 months ago
A lot of the cards in the deck seem to be leftovers from Multani when Marwyn really wants to be an Elf deck, of which you're not really running enough.
Umbral Mantle + Marwyn makes infinite mana. Spend 0 to equip, tap Marwyn for 1, untap her by paying 2 additional mana from other sources, and then tap her for 3, then pay that 3 to untap her again, and now she taps for 5. You'll net gain X + 2 mana every iteration of this loop.
Staff of Domination is expensive but worth it. Once Marwyn taps for 6 mana (which is as simple as casting some Elves), you can generate infinite mana, draw as many cards as you want, and gain as much life as you like.
For your creatures, you need to run Boreal Druid, Fyndhorn Elves, maybe even Joraga Treespeaker. In the case of the former two, they let you cast Marwyn on turn 2, instead of 3. Your ramp should be aiming to put her down t2, and if it costs 4 or more mana to ramp you should drop it. Animist's Awakening, Cultivate, Grow from the Ashes, Harvest Season, Hour of Promise, Kamahl's Druidic Vow (you have a whopping 3 legendary permanents in this deck), Kodama's Reach, Map the Wastes, and even Splendid Reclamation (unless you're playing against land destruction, otherwise it's an extremely blank card), and Tempt with Discovery. You don't need land cards in your hand anymore; this isn't Multani. Adventurous Impulse can go too. Replace all of these cards with Elves or cards that produce Elves- Imperious Perfect, Elvish Champion, Farhaven Elf, Arbor Elf, Elvish Harbinger, Boreal Druid, Fyndhorn Elves, Elvish Archdruid, Priest of Titania, Elvish Visionary, Fierce Empath, Immaculate Magistrate, Joraga Warcaller, Wirewood Channeler, Nullmage Shepherd, Lys Alana Huntmaster and more, are just some of the cards you could add. The Elf lords are important, but make sure you run every 1 drop Elf that taps for mana (and if you want to go full elfball with it, run Heritage Druid as she enables absurd plays with the right starting hands). Heck, even Dwynen's Elite isn't bad here since it's +2/+2 to Marwyn when they enter play.
Bottom line is: Marwyn wants Elves to enter play in order to grow. If you run few Elves, she won't grow very much.
So, you add more Elves and now Marwyn can tap for boatloads of mana by turns 5-6, so what do you do with that mana? Genesis Wave, Slate of Ancestry, and Ezuri, Renegade Leader make solid mana sinks. Similarly, Yisan, the Wanderer Bard and Skyshroud Poacher give you something to do with your oodles of mana too. You could add more tutors and draw (Chord of Calling is a personal favorite but there are cheaper options).
Instead of Hour of Promise, you could use Sylvan Scrying to find something like Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, but if you're not going to be running Nykthos then either card is pretty mediocre so I wouldn't bother with it.
Aerial predation is cute, but Beast Within kills whatever and a 3/3 token hardly matters in a format with 40 life.
Ancient Animus is also cute, but it's heavily reliant upon your board position (IE, you already have to be 'winning' in order for Animus to do anything), whereas Song of the Dryads turns someone's Commander into a tree and, unless they have something that lets them sacrifice a land, they can get stuck without their Commander for a whole game. It's one of the best removals in green, truthfully.
Blossoming Defense gives you 2 extra mana out of Marwyn, but you could just cast Elves to get that instead. Heroic Intervention saves your whole board state from board wipes at only 1 mana more, which seems like the stronger inclusion.
All of those buffing equipment cards can probably go, too. Blackblade Reforged/Strata Scythe is adorable, but why use that when Coat of Arms is a thing? On another note, Thousand-Year Elixir would oftentimes let you get as much, if not more, use out of Marwyn and other mana dorks by letting them tap the turn they come into play, not to mention untapping them.
Anyway, I know this is a lot of recommendations but I hope this helped. My wife's been playing Elfball with basically every possible Commander since 2013 so I've learned a lot about it while helping her tune her Elf deck.
3 months ago
Thank you for the feedback He_Who_Hungers and I am embarrassed at my spelling mistake, oops hehe.
Helix Pinnacle is a great card, but I want to be very aggressive with this deck and it is a very slow draw. Burn at the Stake is also a bit slow when I want to be turning my creatures sideways to fill up on mana.
Nullmage Shepherd looks like it could be a really strong contender over Rec Sage, so that is something to consider, and I will see if I can find one at my LGS. Same goes for Omnath, Locus of Mana it can potentially get out of control and is a card that if I can pick up will be considered for the deck.
I was actually just looking at Yeva, Nature's Herald at my LGS today, but do not thing it is what this deck wants to be doing.
The Hideaway lands coming in tap and having potential to whiff on X spells makes me favour them lower for this deck.
Again, thanks for the feedback!
3 months ago
I think you have most of the must-haves included... But there are still some which you may consider.|
I maintain that Helix Pinnacle is one of the best mana sinks in the game, if not the most impactful until you actually get to the 100. Nevertheless, it might serve as an alternative win condition if your main plan should for any reason not work.
Other ideas might be Burn at the Stake, which is a creature sink more than a mana sink, but might help you finish someone off, since you're going to have a lot of them anyway. For the same reason I'd strongly recommend Nullmage Shepherd over Reclamation Sage. Omnath, Locus of Mana and Yeva, Nature's Herald are examples of cards which don't directly provide mana but give you more options to hold on to your mana or spend it at more opportune times. In addition, Mosswort Bridge en Spinerock Knoll both seem quite good in this deck.
Lastly, and not entirely to the point, for the name of the deck, you probably meant "The Hordes of Keld". Hoards refers to something like Hoarding Dragon ;)
3 months ago
I play this very deck and it's great. You might want to add Burgeoning as it allows explosive starts akin to starting with Sol Ring.
Then, talking about instants and sorceries, Seasons Past is, I find, just one of the best value cards in the game. You'll get back exactly what you need from the yard. Harvest Season is just really powerful ramp in a deck like this and if you really want the power to win out of nowhere, Hatred is a really, really spicy card. Prepare for people to hate you back though!
Finally, as for cards you should drop (since you ask for it), and I'm not going to hold back here: Giant Adephage, Omnath, Locus of Rage, Rampaging Baloths and Spawnwrithe are all cards that are more cute than directly helpful to your gameplan. You don't really benefit from having big tokens as much as having many small ones. I also would not play Intangible Virtue (even though I have one in my binder) because it doesn't buff Tana and thus doesn't let her make more tokens. This is the important double duty of all anthem effects in this deck, not only does it make your army bigger, it makes Tana grow your army size as well.
These are just my opinions, make of them what you will. Have fun with your deck!
4 months ago
I'm running a similar deck and have a few suggestions of cards that work really well in that deck:
Benefit from having many creatures - Ashnod's Altar - Nullmage Shepherd - Odric, Master Tactician - Hour of Reckoning - Nissa's Expedition - Appeal / Authority - Glare of Subdual (very powerful) - Eldrazi Monument (I know, puts your creatures over 2 power. But if you're flying and indestructible, who cares about details like that) - Cathars' Crusade (same luxury problem as Eldrazi Monument, and same solution)
Generic goodstuff - Path of Ancestry (how are you surviving with so little land in the first place?) - Krosan Verge (if you put in the big dollar land cards, might as well fetch them. plus, it ramps too!)
4 months ago
Outside of that, Bramble Elemental nets you saprolings whenever it's enchanted, however you need a way of either moving the enchantment onto the saproling or blowing it up without killing Bramble Elemental. You would have to use Nullmage Shepherd, Doubling Season and Parallel Lives to net enough saprolings to loop. And at that point It just feels like you're reaching really hard for very little gain.