|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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Creature — Sliver
As Ward Sliver enters the battlefield, choose a color.
All Slivers have protection from the chosen color.
Ward Sliver Discussion
1 month ago
Nice, but I'd recommend sideboarding Ward Sliver as well. It can be pretty useful against certain decks.
2 months ago
I love Slivers, and am more than excited to give you my two cents- however, I have a major pet peeve when it comes to deck descriptions, specifically the lack of a deck description which your page has. When you don't include a detailed description it's hard for me to get a feel for how you want to your deck to play. Plus, it'll be a big help for you as you can put some thought into how you want your Sliver deck to play...as Slivers are the most flexible tribe in all of magic (and for those of you who doubt that, or want to argue- fight me :P). So yeah, get your deck description right- here are some resources you can use to help you get started:
End Rant. So, onward onto actual suggestions. Since you're running Sliver Overlord you are going to go for a more control oriented deck. You'll likely want to focus on Slivers that help you keep a stranglehold on the board as you won't need any of the Lord Sliver s. They're simply irrelevant as you are rarely going to be swinging wide with this commander. I would just include the one Sliver Lord that actually matters: Sliver Legion .
- Acidic Sliver - sacrificing Slivers is never ideal unless you are getting the better end of the deal. Sac-ing a Sliver to deal a paltry 2 damage isn't worth it. Cut.
- Diffusion Sliver - doesn't really work in commander. Paying an extra to remove a pesky creature in Commander is hardly a tax. This card is only good in standard where you could play multiple copies of this card, and make that tax potentially or . Cut.
- Morophon, the Boundless feels more like a win-more card - essentially it's a card that only helps you if you're already ahead. Cut.
- Opaline Sliver - generally, you don't want your Slivers to be targeted at all by your opponents(hint Crystalline Sliver ) - not to mention this card is a total non-combo or non-bo with the previously mentioned sliver. Cut.
- Shadow Sliver - losing the ability to block for evasion is a risky gamble. Since Overlord is the more Control oriented Sliver and doesn't really encourage an aggro play style this sliver will rarely afford you an advantage. You have better options for evasion in the deck already (in my opinion.) Cut.
- Tempered Sliver - This Sliver only benefits you if you were playing a more aggro style deck - and also if you could play multiple copies. Getting a +1/+1 counter only if your slivers can hit the opponent is okay...but I think you could better use the card slot for something else. Cut.
- Virulent Sliver - This Sliver is cute, but unfortunately doesn't offer much in the way of a valid alternate win option. Definitely another win-more card, as you'll need 10 separate instances of combat damage on each opponent. Honestly, that's not really feasible in my opinion - unless you had 4 of these in your deck. But alas, that is a Sliver that doesn't really benefit you. Cut.
- Ward Sliver - This one i'm a little bit uncertain on as protection can be incredibly handy depending on the circumstance - but for ? That's a hefty asking price. I think you could put that mana to better use elsewhere. Cut.
So that's it for my recommendations regarding what Slivers to cut. As for the rest of you deck, i'll save those recommendations for when you can give me a bit more information on how you want your deck to play - are you looking for a more aggro play style? If so, i'd recommend Sliver Hivelord or Sliver Legion honestly - but that's for a later conversation. Look forward to your response - i'm always happy to see another Sliver deck - Chitinous Approval Ensues
3 months ago
I have found Ward Sliver to be a useful fetch-from-the-toolbox Sliver, especially if you already have flash going for you via Quick Sliver . Answers Pestilence effects, green fight mechanics, and those looking to Blasphemous Act away your Sliver line.
4 months ago
Appreciate the suggestions as this opened my eyes to re-tooling the manabase. This is the first commander deck I built and I made the mistake of never revisiting the manabase.
I think i'm going to go a little different route though and if you have any other thoughts on this strategy i'd love to hear them.
The plan is to increase the basics land count to 13-15 with a little extra focus on green. With those i'll add the green ramp/fixing staples of Kodama's Reach , Cultivate , Rampant Growth , Farseek , and Explosive Vegetation .
In addition to the basics i'm planning to add the Battle lands for another shot of entering untapped.
I understand your point about cutting these guys:
Jolrael, Empress of Beasts - Love holding a player hostage with the land destruction threat. Sad to see it go.
4 months ago
Hey, great deck name, +1 just for that :)
21 of the 34 lands in the manabase ETB tapped. That's a lot and not good for a five color deck. Since this is a budget manabase, budget lands to consider adding:
Are Thorncaster Sliver , Ward Sliver , Jolrael, Empress of Beasts , Might Sliver and Pulmonic Sliver worth playing as five drops? The five drop Sliver here you want to play is Hivelord or Overload, playing seven other five drop creatures doesn't seem needed and can hurt the consistency of being able to play the better five drops. There's quite a few other five drop noncreature cards here too. Constricting Sliver , Fury Sliver , Megantic Sliver are six drop Slivers and they also don't seem needed.
Other cards to consider adding:
- Sol Ring
- Eladamri's Call
- Fellwar Stone
- Mystic Remora
- Amoeboid Changeling
- Homing Sliver
- Venom Sliver
- Striking Sliver
- The First Sliver
- Shared Animosity
- Dovin's Veto
Cards to consider cutting:
- Vivid Crag
- Vivid Creek
- Vivid Grove
- Vivid Marsh
- Vivid Meadow
- Thorncaster Sliver
- Ward Sliver
- Constricting Sliver
- Fury Sliver
- Megantic Sliver
- Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
- Might Sliver
- Pulmonic Sliver
- Spreading Plague
- Star of Extinction
- Door of Destinies
5 months ago
This is a bit of a long one, but I'd like to respond to all the comments haha,
Love the deck name. The First Sliver is very fast and can be brutal when the opponent can't blow you out. Swarming the field can be enough to slaughter your opponent if its 1v1. It's definitely much harder if your partner has killed your commander 3 times and forced it to become 11 cmc! But of course, still very good.
In non 1v1 it could be harder, but then it could be still ok as well, depends on the meta and the politics in the play group. I never realised how important politics were until I played one of my other favourite decks: Queen Marchesa . Sometimes I face 1 control deck and 2 other aggro decks and I find that we all team up to take down the control deck because it can easily blow us all up with an Evacuation or Cyclonic Rift . In a meta full of other aggro decks, sometimes I find there are more threatening challengers, e.g. Edgar Markov which can start of WAY faster, Maelstrom Wanderer which can just win in a single turn, and Reanimator strategies which summon giant unstoppable threats. In a full combo meta, you might find that you get a lot of support if you make deals with people to assist in taking down a combo player. One of my friends was playing Kess, Dissident Mage storm and everyone countered his boardwipes so I could get in to finish him before he went off. Certainly where no one plays politics, you will seem quite threatening because you're the 'sliver' guy (definitely a dirty word). The First Sliver is very threatening, but it has some weaknesses (e.g. board wipes) and may be portrayed as more 'dirty' than it actually is. If you make it clear what your weaknesses are, play it patient + look for windows where you can surprise kill people, and make it clear that you play a role in keeping the peace (that you're valuable to keep alive), it won't be too bad and people won't see The First Sliver as THAT big of a threat (albeit still a threat haha). When you attack, share the love. When you go in for the kill, be sure u can kill them dead.
I hope you have fun at the LGS! I'm actually overseas on vacation at the moment, but in July I'll be back at my LGS and keen to slam some games with this deck.
Thanks for the constructive criticism; I don't think it's negative at all and very useful. I hope I get more comments like this. I'll try to address all the points, please let me know if I missed anything!
- Hitting 5 mana consistently
You'd be surprised at how often the deck is able to get to 5 mana. I based the land count off my predecessor sliver lists, though after play testing, I found that 35 was good myself. We don't really thin the deck of lands so we draw lands quite a lot. If worse comes to worse, you might need to mull, but as soon as you hit 5 lands you can do much of what the deck was designed to do.
We have ramp in the form of Manaweft Sliver , Gemhide Sliver , Cultivate , Kodama's Reach , Herald's Horn , Urza's Incubator and even 2 pseudo-power cards as ramp (as well as ways to search for them/draw them). But you're right about the lack of ramp. Hence, I've I mentioned in one of the previous comments (#10) that I'll be trying to add more "ramp/rocks to ensure consistency as well as enough mana in the late game". Ultimately, however, I do want to minimise the number of non-sliver cards. The gimmick of this deck just aims to cascade as much as possible and play the pseudo-power cards. We don't risk cascading into ramp by accident, which is what I didn't like about my Maelstrom Wanderer deck, so the ceiling is high, but there is the trade-off.
The deck seems to do fine in getting to 5 from what I've seen, though I'll report back after further tests. Even if it doesn't hit 5 lands on 5, it doesn't mean doom. The deck is admittedly quite glass cannon regarding lands, though by virtue, it also has a high ceiling. Maybe after testing more, I'll go up to 36, but I will need to find room for that extra land. I'm considering even putting in utility lands (see comment #10) which will grind us advantage while also adding to the land count.
Much of the lands come in tapped yes, but in the guide I wrote that this was a budget mana base. I also suggested to use fetches, shocks (and even duals) if you had them available to you. The lands will come in tapped in this build, though if you sequence correctly it should not be too much of a hindrance.
Ultimately, I keep my low land count because: As you said I mentioned, the deck is fast. For the most part, 5 mana is all you need to go off because you'll be casting multiple slivers off each trigger (we also have acceleration cards that allow free casting, such as Descendants' Path and the hideaway lands, so we can do more with less mana). This low count also ensures you draw as most slivers as possible.
- Recasting the commander
You are completely correct in noticing the weakness in The First Sliver being removed and being hard to be recasted. In comment #4 I stated that after play testing the The First Sliver became widely feared and was likely to be removed. Therefore I suggested to add in Diffusion Sliver . The idea is to either have enough lands or play protection before you cast The First Sliver (for now, but, as I mentioned, I definitely would like to try tech in more ramp, though what we have now is not too bad). Also, you have to be aware that as soon as you cascade a few times after, you're very likely to hit Mox Tantalite and Lotus Bloom which will keep you in the game until you hit more lands and the card draw engines (including Ancestral Vision ) will draw you into more.
As for protection, I consider cards that leave The First Sliver 's casting cost at 5 as protection as well (I probably should have been more clear about this). As long as you can replay your commander, it can do its job. These include: Crypt Sliver , Hibernation Sliver , Frenetic Sliver , Pulmonic Sliver , Sliver Hivelord , Ward Sliver , Crystalline Sliver and ways of searching. Sometimes these slivers will be situational (e.g. some cannot defend against exile effects), though patience and not presenting yourself as a threat before getting these cards out is the key. Sometimes you just need to play without The First Sliver abit. You can also let your commander go to the grave and use Graveshifter or Volrath's Stronghold .
Again, there are also other utility lands which I want to tech in (see comment #10) which will act as recursion after The First Sliver dies. In saying this, I avoid non-sliver protection spells for the same reason I try minimise ramp spells: ending the cascade chain. Also, I would rather draw slivers or non-sliver cards that accelerate us in the late game + while some of the slivers I mentioned account for board-wipes, the non-creature shroud/hex proof cards will leave you with no slivers to protect after a wrath.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll definitely test with more ramp and lands for sure.
This is an interesting suggestion, I haven't really considered it. Though there seem to be some downsides.
Aetherflux Reservoir could be good as we cast so many spells off cascade. This can lead to finishing opponents off early. However, we don't cast enough spells to gain us up to 111 life (assuming this is a standard game with 4 players and everyone at 40 life, leaving us at 1 after Aetherflux Reservoir ). Based on the triangle number sequence, if we cast 4 creatures we will deal 10 damage. If we cast 5 (the average) we will deal 15 damage. If we cast 6, we will deal 21 damage. This will take at least 6 turns to get to 111 life, by which the opponents will have destruction for the Aetherflux Reservoir and we can't protect it, lacking any counters in the deck (a bit too glass cannon?). We are also so aggressive that we can normally already kill under 6 turns when we do go off. Because the lack of defensiveness this deck has, we will also be taking a lot of damage from other aggro decks. This will be worse for us if we play Aetherflux Reservoir , because we will likely become more archenemy than we already are; we can definitely take out 1 or 2 players, but our life will be too at risk from the last player. This also encourages going all out with casting our hand, which may cause us to over-extend and blow out.
This may be assisted by Essence Sliver though such may be a bit inconsistent. Furthermore, it's a risk to cascade into it and is a card that we don't necessarily want in the late game, having cast everything we have already.
Though again, my theorising is all on paper and I might give it a try? In practice who's to say it won't work? With aggression from our deck we may not even need to reach 100 life. Very interesting suggestion.
- Thank you all for the feedback! I like constructive criticism and will continue to improve this build.
7 months ago
In the future, please use the Rules Q&A for questions regarding rules, cards, or card interactions. Unlike other forum sections, it has some added functionality, such as the ability to "Mark as Answer" a post to indicate you no longer need assistance. Even though Oathbreaker is not an official format, the question you have involves colour identity, which is defined under the rules. I have gone ahead and moved the thread for you.
First off, as a bit of clarification since your post indicated you were not aware of this rule, colourless is not a colour. For example, Ward Sliver instructs you to choose a colour; since colourless is not a colour, you cannot pick colourless for Ward Sliver 's ability.
Moving on, colour identity has three components: (1) The colour's in the card's mana cost; (2) the colours in the card's rules text (not including reminder text); and (3) any colour indicator or characteristic-defining ability which states the card's colour(s).
Let's apply this to Ugin first. While you did not specify which Ugin you were talking about, it does not matter as they both have the same colour identity. Ugin, the Ineffable and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon have (1) no colours in their mana cost; (2) no colours in their rules' text, and (3) no colour indicators or characteristic-defining abilities stating they have any colours. Therefore, their colour identity is colourless--the lack of any particular colour identity.
Let's let's look at a non-Devoid Eldrazi-- Kozilek, Butcher of Truth for example. Kozilek has (1) no colours in its mana cost (as stated above is not a colour); no colours in its rules text; and (3) no colour indicator or characteristic-defining ability. As such, it is also colourless, and can be used in a deck with Ugin as the Oathbreaker.
As Pervavita stated, Devoid would not be allowed with Ugin, as cards with devoid have a coloured mana symbol in their cost and sometimes rules text. These cards fail point (1) and possibly point (2), and therefore have a colour identity of a given colour, even if they themselves are colourless.
9 months ago
hkhssweiss I have considered using some of the cards like Patriarch's Bidding for recursion but I guess I just didn't like the idea of letting my opponents get their stuff back too. I thought about Teferi's protection but I felt like having a lot of things like Ward Sliver and Sliver Hivelord would be good enough protection. If I were to add these what would you consider cutting?
Ward Sliver occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.0%