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Hero's Downfall Discussion
3 hours ago
Alright, let's talk control for a second everyone. We got our first glance at the format at the Standard Open in Indianapolis the past weekend. There were a few interesting variations, some of which I didn't expect. I'll start with the more traditional builds and move to some odd ones.
This is a familiar deck, and not much has changed. some stock cards such as Hero's Downfall and Thoughtseize are gone and replaced with similar iterations such as Complete Disregard and Despise. Noticeably, this black control deck has opted out of using the Hero's Downfall "replacement", Ruinous Path. Seemingly, the sorcery speed was too much to overcome and is therefore not being used. Maybe as the format progresses it may be used more.
A single copy of UW Control landed in the top 64, unlike the numerous Esper lists as we've seen. There were a splattering of UW Control lists floating around last season, but they never gained much traction. The archetype hasn't seen popularity since the days of RTR/THS standard where we all rememember the powerful one two punch of Sphinx's Revelation and Supreme Verdict. Now, however, the deck looks quite a bit different. Dig Through Time acts as the decks main draw engine, with a win condition in Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and not much else besides awakened lands. It is a very slow version of control, much slower than Esper which smacks you in the face with dragons. Rather than instant/sorcery speed removal, UW opts instead for enchantment based removal as its primary creature removal and a plethora of counter spells.
With fetch lands and battle lands running wild, standard is seeing a manabases capable of crazy things. This is evident by the five color monstrosity you see here! So what exactly is going on? We've got Bring to Light serving as a tutor for almost every single card in the deck save silumgar. The amount of flexibility this allows for is insane. Removal runs rampant, and a variety of it which can all be grabbed with Bring to Light in a pinch to match the situation. On top of this, being five colors allows the deck to run the all-powerful Siege Rhino, which is nothing to scoff at. Many variations of this deck ran around the field, some opting for a more aggro/midrange approach but this more controlling version landed closer to the top. This is a very interesting player I am excited to see where it goes in the future.
Yeah...you didn't think this was going away, did you? The deck as it stands is ultimately a weaker version of the previous iteration. It has the same game plan in the end however, remove your creatures and beat you to death with Siege Rhino. Prepare to have the same one fast against you multiple times with Den Protector and cry yourself to sleep. I don't expect this boogie man to go away, although I expect the aggro variant to be stronger in this day and age.
These are the standout control lists to come out of the tournament for me. We get a familiar face in Esper Dragons and Abzan, and a couple of newcomers with Bring to Light and UW Control. But where is the archetype going? Some cards I expected to be nearly crucial to control ended up not being present, and other cards standing in awkward contrast with counterparts. For example, does Ugin, the Spirit Dragon remain the powerhouse that it was, and can it coexist with Stasis Snare and other permanent based removal? Will Dragonlord Ojutai remain a good win con still with the prevalence of Crackling Doom being packed by Abzan Red and Jeskai Black? How about Pearl Lake Ancient, where does it stand? The removal seems to be getting worse, which puts control in an awkward spot but still even in week one control still managed to make a decent showing against a fairly aggressive field. So, down below feel free to discuss your thoughts on control and it's different versions existing in standard and how they are going to fair. Are any decks absent you feel have potential, such as UB Control? I'm interested to hear your thoughts!
8 hours ago
No worries, it's appreciated. Beast Within isn't fantastic, since it leaves the target with fodder for Smokestack or The Abyss. If for whatever reason, I didn't have Putrefy I'd run it. However, Hero's Downfall would probably go in sooner, for similar reasons.
12 hours ago
I think the meta is still up in the air for what should come out, RDW is still a killer, Control, though, without Thoughtseize and Hero's Downfall will make the shell significantly weaker. The draw-go control, to me, is somewhat compromised. Scatter to the Winds and Clash of Wills are decent but variable.
I agree. Zombie fish is a better body, couldn't think of a better body.
2 days ago
@necro: heapdoll looks sweet, but shriek and bone i have issues with in my meta, black is a popular color, and whenever i ran them, it would end up me drawing that instead of Hero's Downfall or something. ill see if i can run Mindshrieker again though. thank you
2 days ago
I would be dumping the Lands unless you are playing them, same goes with the Ob Nixilis Reignited I dont think he can hold his value when competing against Gideon and Kiora. I would certainly be dumping the foil of him ASAP.
Ruinous Path is hard to say, I mean Hero's Downfall peaked at like $20-$25, but that was also Instant speed vs Sorcery speed... thats a big game changer. I would say its gonna hover in the $5-$7 range but a solid showing could easily spike it.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir is my wild card... Shes at $25 and seems to be holding, and I mean she fits in Abzan, Orzhov and really any build running B with creatures... So yeah if your not gonna play her, might be a safe bet to dump. With the set only a few days old and Expedition's being cracked left right and center at what seems to be much higher then anticipated volumes, this set $$$ wise is going to be interesting to watch. I am personally dumping anything I am not playing aside from Expeditions and Foil Mythics/Lands
2 days ago
There are several things you need to change if you want to win AND have a cheap deck. Since your going budget, use Pain Lands (Watery Grave, Steam Vents, and Blood Crypt) instead of your fetch lands.They cost much less but are still usable. If you still want to use fetch lands, you NEED Brainstorm. I am not going to tell you why, just look it up on a forum. Another thing I noticed is some of your spells are only good against one deck type. For example, Surgical Extraction is only good against Graveyard decks or if you have a ton of discard effects. Another such card is Doom Blade, it only hits ~4/5 creatures. You need cards that are universally good. Here are cards you should KEEP, cut the rest: Grixis Charm, Lightning Bolt, Terminate (add one more), and Cruel Ultimatum. Before you add any other cards, you need to establish a Win Condition (something that lets you win the game) first. Cruel Ultimatum is good, but won't win the game outright. Use cards like: Delver of Secrets Flip and Tasigur, the Golden Fang. These are cheap and powerful. Find more cards like those, I am not going to list them all out. After you've done that, add a mix of: Mana Leak, Rune Snag, Infest (or another cheap board-wipe), Hero's Downfall, Go for the Throat, Dreadbore, Serum Visions, Sleight of Hand, Thoughtseize (budget Duress and Despise), Inquisition of Kozilek, Into the Roil, and Cyclonic Rift. I could go on all day. Find good cards like these by doing some research. Unless you want to copy another deck, you have to put in some effort. Finally, add a sideboard to deal with threats you have a tough time against or to replace dead cards (a dead card would be a board-wipe against a deck with no creatures). For Splinter Twin decks (look it up), add Pithing Needle, for Graveyard use Nihil Spellbomb, etc. Good luck.
4 days ago
I think your removal package mainboard needs a bit of tweaking.
I would go with:
I believe running one more Sarkhan over Ob Nixilis is important because of his ability to finish games in the air. While Ob seems sweet, I think that he forms more of a role comparable to Liliana Vess, which saw play as a one-of in most decks that considered her.
I like Butcher here, and he grows more powerful with the removal of Hero's Downfall from the format.
For your sideboard I would consider starting with something like this:
2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker (all 4 in against control)
2x Ruinous Path (against planeswalker heavy decks and some control decks)
1x Ultimate Price (against decks with lots of mono aggro or midrange)
2x Outpost Siege (against control)
1x Utter End (utility)
3x Wild Slash (against aggro)
1x Stasis Snare (utility)
3x Duress (against control)
I think your worst matchup will be control, so I tailored it towards that more. If manlands and awaken lands start to be an issue, then maybe even Crumble to Dust.
5 days ago
Thanks!! I already have Sign in Blood and Read the Bones!! I'm actually debating taking out Skeletal Scrying since i need to exile cards for that...I really hope I get Ruinous Path & Hedron Matrix! Aren't they both in the new Battle For Zendikar set? I'll have to look out for Hero's Downfall tho.
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
- Academy Rector + Hero's Downfall + Test of Endurance
- Abzan Charm + Hero's Downfall
- Dreadbore + Hero's Downfall
- Banishing Light + Hero's Downfall + Murderous Cut
- Agent of the Fates + Hero's Downfall
- Hero's Downfall + Utter End
- Dissolve + Hero's Downfall
- Abrupt Decay + Dreadbore + Hero's Downfall
- Hero's Downfall + Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni