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Surgical Extraction Discussion
2 days ago
3 days ago
I question the point of making a Death & Taxes with less than the full 4 Flickerwisp. Taxing 2-drops and Wisp shenanigans is literally the reason to play the deck. I was also pretty disappointed with Selfless Spirit in testing. Thraben Inspector has pretty clearly established itself as the 1-drop of choice. Eldrazi Displacer with only 1 Eldrazi Temple is pretty clunky. With the rise of Shadow decks, Relic of Progenitus has become Taxes' graveyard hate piece of choice. Not really getting what the Surgical Extractions are in there for.
4 days ago
Well for sideboard, definitely something to deal with eldrazi and other big threats, like Roast, Dismember and Terminate (which if I'm gonna be honest should be in the main board). Definitely hand hate such as Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Duress, Distress or Despise. Some graveyard hate like Grafdigger's Cage, Relic of Progenitus, Leyline of the Void, Nihil Spellbomb, Crypt Incursion and plenty more that I can't remember at the moment. Against Burn, the only thing I can think of off the top of my head would probably be Dragon's Claw. Against combo decks Surgical Extraction or Slaughter Games. Finally against something like Tron or B/W Control you have options like Stone Rain, Molten Rain or Rain of Tears.
I'm unsure what your local playgroup or meta is like, but these are some fine options to help board in against whatever match-ups you face. Good luck!
4 days ago
Even with the reasoning you have expressed for playing 4 Ezuri, Renegade Leader I would cut down on the number to 2-3 copies. Your opponents don't know he is your win-con in as much that they know he is your only wincon, this means you have to broaden your ways of winning as currently you can lose to a Surgical Extraction, Joraga Warcaller and Craterhoof Behemoth are good alternative win-cons in elf ball, other than that the list looks pretty stock, is there a specific area you want feedback on?
5 days ago
filthyc4sual Except there is a real cost of not hitting anything useful. For example, finding any top 6 where you take a Birds and some random other creature is a "hit" but it really isn't. A T1 dork into T2 Evolution for Anafenza, the Foremost can slay dredge, or Eidolon of Rhetoric against Storm/AdNaus, etc. A company in those matchups might not actually do anything fast enough, Evo actually wins the game (in general) in those spots.
Even in matchups where you don't have any bullets to search for, You can always curve out Voice of Resurgence + Evo --> Renegade Rallier to get a Rallier and a Voice token while getting the voice back. Evo is insane with an active Gavony Township/Vizier of Remedies and persister, and can even turn the "all dork" boards into something scary. You can also board in as much non-creature disruption as you want in games 2/3 -- Thoughtseize, Path to Exile, Stony Silence, and Surgical Extraction are all cards that increase CoCo's chances of whiffing while being very helpful in difficult matchups.
1 week ago
cplvela0811 Thanks! It took me 3+ years to cave and buy 2 snapcasters, even though they are pretty great. I've been thinking 1 more Ensnaring Bridge might be worth adding, but I don't know if there's enough room for more Snapcaster Mage's. Maybe drop the manic for one more Snap, or the bridge? I don't see this deck ever really getting the delirium trigger, so either would be more efficient.
I've play tested a slightly different version a couple different times now, and it seems to excel against combo decks, but struggles against most others. (Esp. Affinity and Grixis Shadows, due to infect and delve respectively)
frogkill45 Good question, I originally wanted to go for the passive control type matchup, with counterspells and walls. After play-testing though, I've gravitated more towards early mill and using Surgical Extraction and Extirpate as the control aspect. The problem I have with purely active mill, is it tends to burn out of mill about 20 cards short on average, where the passive mill tends to hit about that amount allowing it to finish by about turn 6-7. The deck dies hardcore to a wide early board swinging for lethal before I can empty my hand with Ensnaring Bridge, or get off a game winning life-swing from Crypt Incursion. I ran Supreme Verdict for a while, but the double white requirement tends to make casting it difficult, so I'm considering Damnation or some other black/blue board wipe.
Ultimately, I don't think I want to drop the 4x Hedron Crab nor at least a one-of Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. Ashiok was my reason for going into mill, it's just too cool a card and such a powerful 3 drop that demands answering. Hedrons are, in my opinion, mandatory for any deck that uses non-combo mill as its wincon. It's just insanely efficient with fetch-lands.
1 week ago
I like the deck, the problem you have is the random discard effects, for my version I play 2 Hazoret the Fervent against cards like Surgical Extraction but in this deck the chance of losing them to a random discard effect is too high.
1 week ago
I forgot about Profane Memento.. That might work early game, but if you draw one turn 4-5 it's too little too late. Crypt Incursion will have a fog effect by allowing you to gain anywhere from 12-45+ life; it's Instant speed, so it also acts like a Surgical Extraction; furthermore, you buy the time needed to continue your mill. It's simply the best choice for your strategy. I would take out one Jace, Memory Adept, one Lazav, Dimir Mastermind and both Undead Alchemists.
Jace is a wincon, but an expensive one. You have plenty of mill power, you need to buy those turns. You can leave one in, but 2 is too much.
Lazav is also a nice alternative wincon, but a bit janky for what you're doing here. It's color specific, and he doesn't seem to fit well enough to justify 2. So, one will do.
Alchemist is a mill card, but not quite a fit for this deck. This is just expensive defense that may never get off the ground.
Now, you still have a slot to fill (took out 4, put in 2, and we are trying to get down to 60). Put in one more Phantasm for alt. Wincon and blocking purposes.
You are still at 62 cards at this point. After making adjustments, I would look at your avg. Cmc. Multiply that by 8.
Now, if the sum is <18, put more land in to =18.
This is my rule of thumb of course, for curves heavy on the lower end of the curve. Since you are running Hedron crabs, but no fetch lands (something that would help this deck out TREMENDOUSLY), 21 lands (or 22 if you take Lazav out completely) feels pretty comfortable for this deck. So you should sit right at 60 cards, if my imaginary math is correct!