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|Want (3)||obsidianwind , Bestclops , wolf-tasu|
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|Modern Masters 2015 Edition (MM2)||Rare|
|New Phyrexia (NPH)||Rare|
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Surgical Extraction occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.11%
All decks: 0.06%
Surgical Extraction Discussion
1 day ago
Miscast is definitely a cool card, and I can see its sideboard applications in certain decks, however as far as this deck is concerned, Veil of Summer is strictly better as, not only does it turn off targeted discard and protect me from Necromentia-like effects, but in doing this it also replaces itself via drawing a card. It is also a superior "counter-like" effect, in large part because it is one of the few cards that can actually answer Dovin's Veto. For these reasons, I would rather have the green counter, also taking into consideration it isn't difficult for me to make green mana.
I'm also not sure I would even say Miscast is my second choice for the role you specify; that would likely be Swan Song which may be an easier point of comparison as both have their drawbacks. The benefit to Swan Song is that it is always a hard counter, yes if it has to be used early then it can give our opponent some measure of inevitability, but considering we are looking to win relatively quickly this usually isn't a problem. Miscast, while it doesn't provide our opponent with a way to win, is not a hard counter, and while it could be useful turn 1 to deal with discard, it can be very underwhelming and potentially damaging in matchups where I am expecting a counter war when I try to win, both Veil of Summer and Swan Song don't suffer from this problem.
In other words, while I think Miscast is a very good card that isn't getting enough attention, I don't believe this is the deck for it, that spot would likely be as the 60th card in a UW control list. The issue you identify with early game hate is already well covered by Veil of Summer and Leyline of Sanctity out of the board, and I would say discard heavy matchups tend to be fairly even or even favorable for me postboard. Additionally, Necromentia effects just don't see a lot of play in modern, Surgical Extraction also doesn't see a ton of play anymore with Faithless Looting gone. I also have 7 dedicated cards to this problem already which unfortunately renders Miscast surplus to requirements. The truth is, I don't fear discard, I can still dig afterwards assuming I have no way to answer it or an active Leyline of Sanctity, playing against discard is really a matter of experience, sure there are times they will just bury you but you have to be able to move on from those with a deck like Ad Nauseam lol. People playing Necromentia effects like yourself have an extra tool for the matchup, a tool that I would say pushes the balance into your favor as it represents just a tad extra flexibility and an effect that, if it resolves, can be detrimental, but I'm not overtly worried about them for the reason's outlined above postboard; though there is a good chance I may lose game one.
Thank you again for your comment its very much appreciated :) I hope I make a good case! Good draws, from what little you describe, this mono-black brew you have sounds pretty cool :)
1 day ago
Thanks for the comment, about 6 months ago the answer to that question was generally yes, now, while it will put me at a severe disadvantage, it does not remove my ability to win thanks to Thassa's Oracle, specifically the game wining combination of Thassa's Oracle, Spoils of the Vault, and either Phyrexian Unlife or Angel's Grace. There is also the outside possibility I can win using Simian Spirit Guide to beat you down. In fact, while effects like Necromentia are very good against Ad Nauseam, there are some nuances to playing it correctly.
Necromentia and similar effects such as Lost Legacy or Unmoored Ego have the drawback of being 3 mana, this effectively means that you have to be smart about your name, keeping in mind whether you are on the play or the draw. For example, if I have opened the game by playing a Pentad Prism on turn 2, I may not be so inclined to name Ad Nauseam on turn 3 if I am on the play, the reason for this being that the more immediate win is the Thassa's Oracle method outlined above. The name in the face of that combo will depend some on circumstance, but generally Angel's Grace or Thassa's Oracle would be the correct choice. On the draw I'm almost always naming Ad Nauseam with something like Necromentia as in order to cast Necromentia one has had to have passed the earliest window for the Thassa's Oracle kill.
I would argue however that Thoughtseize + Surgical Extraction is a generally more powerful and efficient means of combating me as it can be done on turn 1, but Necromentia and its ilk are very effective. One other thing to note is that sometimes lines will present themselves that may seem awkward, let's do a thought experiment and say you are on the play, I pass turn 3 with a Lotus Bloom coming down next turn meaning, in essence, you have to assume that I can win next turn. You go to turn 4 and draw a Necromentia; you play a land and have 4 mana available. In hand you also have a Thoughtseize. The tempting play here would be to fire off the Necromentia and name Ad Nauseam, likely preventing me from winning next turn and buying you, in all likelihood, a lot of time to just land a threat and beat me. However, the correct sequence here would be to Thoughtseize first and look at my hand. For sake of argument we will say that my hand is Angel's Grace, Ad Nauseam, a land, and Lightning Storm. Again the tempting play may be now to take the Ad Nauseam or the Angel's Grace, but the correct answer is to take Lightning Storm, especially considering your hypothetical hand. With Lightning Storm gone, the only card left in my deck that actually wins the game is Thassa's Oracle, meaning you can then Necromentia that away and win on the spot. This could seem like an obvious line to you but I have had people miss it in the past and feel its best to have this articulated on this page.
In short then, yes and no, you don't technically win the game by naming Ad Nauseam with Necromentia, but fundamentally the game is probably over unless I find the auxiliary combo fast enough. Thanks again for the comment I hope my response was adequate.
6 days ago
Use Surgical Extraction on yourself.
1 week ago
I mean, sort of, you forgot a ton of the rules, and randomly tossed in pet cards. 75 cards, not 70 as you stated, interrupts aren't cards anymore, I actually briefly mentioned AEther Snap separately, and you assumed that Chaplain's Blessing is useful, despite 0 lifegain synergies existing that I know of, outside of False Cure, which would theoretically be used with Beacon of Immortality, additionally Angel's Grace/Ad Nauseam will likely be a popular build, and so will Scapeshift lists.
I honestly don't think you meant to put Rakdos Charm as relevant, I mean, it hits graveyards, but Scavenger Grounds does it, is useful in other situations, and is colorless, and gives mana, and every deck can use it. Overrun wouldn't be competitive if we even did have creatures and Fog seems like you are completely kidding. There are no non token creatures, only bad token producers outside of lands and a few possibly useable builds as side wincons. Anger of the Gods is again, not a relevant card really either.
Similarly, Swords, Push and Path (Especially Path) are really bad cards in this format, where there are only tokens. Effects that are more versatile specifically and can hit lands, as each deck is effectively required to be based on those has to run them, and few decks really even use manlands, as they slow the list, and land destruction does it better.
Remember that Swan Song also will often be a worse Flusterstorm that just gets hit by Mental Misstep (This is a Misstep format, so the entirety of the format is based around it) and Veil of Summer. Due to Life from the Loam being the only real engine aside from flashback based cards, and the fact that ever single spell hits the yard upon resolution rather than the battlefield, and most people will see the graveyard as a resource outside of Loam too. The best abusers are Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, and Cling to Dust, which cleans up loams and acts as a draw engine for cheap black discard decks based on Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, etc. Then there is Mystic Sanctuary, which adds so much flame to the fire, as it layers with both Scapeshift and Life from the Loam builds.
That backbone, along with some control tech for the format (Force of Will, Force of Negation, Miscast, Echoing Truth, Cryptic Command, Archmage's Charm, etc.) made the Simic Land Control build you claim I made, and called "loam". I turned it for the meta game's adjustment to it after building the rest of the possibly abuseable archetypes.
One of these tests included tons of Ad Nauseam Storm builds, but it flopped with the Mental Missteps in the format. They can take the loss of some rituals going, or even trade them for their own missteps occasionally, but the fact that every half decent list ran 4 free counterspells just meant that wheel-based builds flopped too.
In fact the format is so aggressively focused on lands being engines, loam, Scapeshift, and the other land builds that the only reasonable combos, which were depths, that got crushed by Archmage's Charm and Cryptic Command in the Control builds, and most other lists packed enough Field of Ruins or Ghost Quarters to still be just fine.
Look, you didn't really read up on GoblinElectromancer's format, you misread what shadow63 said, as he never implicated that he solved the format, just said, quote: "So burn or mill or tokens?" And nothing else on it, and you seemingly tossed a ton of janky filler cards as your choices for powerhouse cards, using the same terminology I used to describe a completely separate group of cards, and then miscredited me on multiple points claiming random things I think everyone immediately knew as "breakthroughs."
Despite the 10+ hours straight I spent since the banlist of the format's release designing and using multiple geometric calculators (had to make one on my own for Loam calculations and 75 card opener testers), attempting to check which build had the most room to improve and grow, I landed on Simic/Bant Lands Control, and solved the format's boogeyman. Yes you still somehow claim the only two decks are yours and mine, despite me proposing over 8 decks and in this bringing up another I didn't feel the need to previously. There are many more than 2 decks, one of which being a worse version of a good deck.
P.S. for all people that want to try the format.
Don't assume the format is solved for good, just that a singular deck seems to be absolutely busted and will beat everything else we have come up with. Intuition depths is my current brainchild, working to take Dark Depths, Life from the Loam, and Thespian Stage, in a Sultai build optimized to cheaply interact while having a list almost entirely based on card advantage and disruption, a more tempo based build rather than just wincons and control like Simic/Bant.
If the shell just gets added to Simic/Bant, I won't be surprised. Surgical Extraction is currently the best anti-loam card I know of, with Extirpate and Cling to Dust being strong avenues the decks trying to counter Loam can use as well. Divert and Misdirection are incredibly powerful however and can be used against them, as they also hit all of the counter magic, burn, discard, etc. in the format.
The format is cool to tinker with but is mostly done currently. If a ban comes tinker around in it, it seems cool!
The Stifle -> Lotus Field -> arcane storm is super viable, and Sylvan Scrying, Crop Rotation and Past in Flames are all in the format, so try it. It doesn't work amazingly because of how much free countermagic is in the format, Flusterstorm, etc. but still, resolve a Veil of Summer in an opportune moment and go for it!
1 week ago
The Spellchaser format, first created by GoblinElectromancer, has become one of my favorite formats.
For those unfamiliar with the format, here's how it works.
The deck is 75 cards. You can have up to 4 of a single card, and you start at 30 life. The catch is you can only include land, instants, and sorceries (technically interrupts too). The banlist is here: Spellchaser Banlist.
The format seems pretty clear cut. You either run burn, mill, or tokens, right (The exact words of shadow63)? Well, in a way. There have been many unique strategies in Spellchaser that have been invented. The First is Loam, built by SynergyBuild. The deck uses Life from the Loam to mill and get lands continously. The main win con is Field of the Dead. Field is a versatile card. It can go into any deck and generate a large number of tokens. This and Loam are the first two breakthroughs of the format.
The next deck was just me playing around.
The format, while it may be "solved", is still interesting. Here is a list of power cards for each color:
Also, I'm going to make a YouTube video on it this weekend. Is that okay?
2 weeks ago
Okay, did the geometric testing, I was done 6 minutes before writing this comment, which I started at 10:28, that means I think I solved the base of the format in 7 hours and 5 minutes.
I tested the shells against eachtlother, the most consistent was the GU list, after tuning the other lists against it, it was easy to break the simple Life from the Loam, Growth Spiral, Field of the Dead list. All you needed was a Cling to Dust or Surgical Extraction Luckily Extraction meant every color had the option. Both also got around Veil of Summer, which is huge in the format. What else gets around it? Divert and Misdirection, who cards that break the Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole piles that were beating UG the most, and were a Golgari Depths list. Before Divert, Golgari lists basically just had to fight Veil of Summer, often with Mental Missteps.
This meant UG could side in the redirects and crush the Black lists. I tried Sultai, so Flusterstorm, Miscast, etc. could disrupt the combo, but sadly they couldn't hit the mana consistently enough anymore. Even when they did the deck was sloppy. A countered Crop Rotation was really bad, and Mental Misstepping one was such a tempo swing, it was almost game over. Most lists could use mana on end steps pretty easily, UW control could at least Brainstorm, UG could Growth Spiral or crack a Waterlogged Grove to dredge a Life from the Loam. Black builds could Cling to Dust to draw. Decks had the means to use tempo, easily turning tempo into massive swings. Mystic Sanctuary is huge for UG and UW builds, Entreat the Angels needs it to function, and Cryptic Command/Deprive loops are big.
Muddle the Mixture let UG have too much redundancy, grab a Loam to grind? On it! Be a Echoing Truth to wipe a Dark Depths token or Field of the Dead army? On it. Use it to get a Living Wish to grab a Field of the Dead from your sideboard if your opponent Surgical Extractioned all of the ones in your deck.
Then all that is needed is backup for this stupid deck.
Mystic Sanctuary for Cryptic Command, opponent on Depths? Echoing Truth, want better? Why not steal it with Archmage's Charm. Stupid. The deck was considering without that upside. Field of Ruin, Miscast, Veil of Summer, a sideboard of lands for Living Wish and more choice cards. Gitaxian Probe, great to judge when to do anything, if you are ever afraid of a Veil of Summer, target yourself. Force of Negation can exile opposing Life from the Loams, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Growth Spiral, etc.
Now onto if they have an answer to tokens, because at this point Lumbering Falls is our best backup. UW gets Celestial Colonnade, which straight up wins in a fight. So we play a Hallowed Fountain and run a couple Colonnade's ourselves. Easy. Plus, unlike UW, we have Loam to recur our Colonades.
Now Bant, with a light splash for colonnade just beat everything. I just found variation of it could be tuned to beat itself, but worse against the field. The deck was evil, super gross to pilot against, felt even worse to play.
It was perfect. I'll write it up and post it.
2 weeks ago
The best end game wincons so far: Angel's Grace/Ad Nauseam, Field of the Dead or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle with Scapeshift or on their own. Dark Depths/Thespian Stage also is amazing in the format. Remember to use manlands, like Creeping Tar Pit or whatever you find fun. I know I'll look at Mutavault heavily for the format. Tokens can also do well, Commence the Endgame seems great!
Engines outside of it that can grind games are Mystic Sanctuary and Cryptic Command/Tragic Lesson/Daze/Gush, Life from the Loam and Horizon Canopy/Tranquil Thicket (Or any other cycling lands, but honestly Lftl works amazing on it's own).
What cards are really good to know about? Unsummon and effects like it should really be good, as all non-land permanents are tokens. Sinkhole and land destruction must be realized to be a very powerful effect, and Thoughtseize style discard is great!
Remember that Negate is just a cheaper Cancel and Miscast is a cheaper Mana Leak. Additionally Muddle the Mixture can both be a Counterspell or a Life from the Loam, and can be returned with Mystic Sanctuary.
Veil of Summer, Lightning Bolt, Silence, Stifle, Miscast, Flusterstorm, Dovin's Veto, Surgical Extraction & Cling to Dust (Amazing against Loam decks and some Sanctuary decks, as well as shutting off backup combos from recursive loops)
Currently Noxious Revival, Echoing Truth, Divert/Misdirection (against discard and burn), most discard, burn, Merchant Scroll, Entreat the Angels (Works well with Brainstorm, Mystic Sanctuary, etc.), and more are all strong.
Overall, it seems like a format where blue dominated, with green engines and tutors like Crop Rotation or Sylvan Scrying can set up the easy combos. Entomb for Life from the Loam, maybe Mission Briefing can do well too.
The best decks seem to be Bant Control, Simic Scapshift (sultai?), Sultai Loam Depths, Golgari Depths (Hymn to Tourach style list), Azorius Control (Entreat Sanctuary style) and Dimir+ Control (No idea the wincon, but a 2-4 color list, aimed at Miscast, Cling to Dust, and Thoughtseize as a base). A ramp build for field outside of Scapeshift, perhaps running it as only a backup, or perhaps a Sultai Loam Field Ramp list could work.
Sadly if you memorize the 6ish real wincons, the 4 bases, and understand the few counterplays the format is solved
2 weeks ago
For more police fun, I suggest Sudden Spoiling (Massacre Wurm smiles even more).
For some nice recursion: Mortuary/Haunted Crossroads/Tortured Existence.
Maybe some specters to discard as "police helicopters"? :D Hypnotic Specter;Liliana's Specter;Urgoros, the Empty One;etc.
For some secret CIA fun police, you could go for Nightmare Incursion;Sadistic Sacrament;Bitter Ordeal;Praetor's Grasp perhaps even Surgical Extraction for those pesky Shadowborn Apostle/Relentless Rats/etc. decks :D
From the newer sets, you could use:
Revenge of Ravens - more protection.
Witch's Vengeance - depends on your opponent's deck.
Bone Miser - great card if you manage to discard your own cards. It is pretty much Waste Not, but it works only on yourself.
Peer into the Abyss - works great with Underworld Dreams and Price of Knowledge.