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Mind Twist Discussion
20 hours ago
Hey, honestly you should consider simplifying everything. Start by cutting Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker, white and blue and just playing Smasher with red and black? I suggest this because of the budget; it's easier to make a good two color budget deck than a four color one. When playing four colors on a budget you really need to restrict the types of cards you play in some colors. For instance here because of the manabase it's better not have or cards in the deck. Instead mostly red and black cards only splashing the two other colors which makes it easier on the manabase and more consistent that you can cast cards in your hand because you have the right mana. With two colors however you increase deck consistently; you only have to worry about being able to cast black and red cards.
Cards like Rakdos Return, Torrent of Hailfire, Ribbons, expand with more of these types of cards:
- Black Sun's Zenith
- Mind Twist
- By Force
- Decree of Pain
- Blasphemous Act
- Comet Storm
These cards want a lot of ramp:
A problem with just red and black can be draw, but there's a few good budget draw spells to choose from:
- Night's Whisper
- Faithless Looting
- Sign in Blood
- Read the Bones
- Magus of the Wheel
- Reforge the Soul
- Bloodgift Demon
- Winds of Change
1 month ago
2 months ago
I haven’t yet seen anyone in my playgroup make a discard theme work. And if you do, you gotta go all in on it.
Black discard decks in EDH usually try to abuse Waste Not. The problem with discard is that it usually is either 1: targeted at one player, not hindering the other player(s), or 2: simply being too weak for anyone to give a damn. Some decks even want to discard their key cards, so you might be helping them more than you are hurting them.
In short: I would prolly advise against building Discard. However if thats what you want to do, go ahead. Here’s how I would approach it:
Waste Not is crazy strong when it gets going. Sangromancer and Geth's Grimoire are your other payoffs, but they can’t turn into a win the way Waste Not does. You should also get all the black tutors you can afford to go find it.
The targeted discard spells are pretty sweet if there is a lot of combo in your local meta. Duress is the only good cheap one I can think of though.
Some decks are gonna try to abuse the fact that they can put their good cards from hand into their yard for juicy reanimation/recursion value. You want cards that deal with this as a result. Bojuka Bog + Relic of Progenitus + Faerie Macabre and so on.
Lastly, there have been some cruel and very strong discard spells over the years. Mind Twist is the best one I know for edh. However these are generally not very budget friendly. Maybe try Death Cloud
3 months ago
First lets work on the mana base, that's black's strongest power...
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Coffers, Vesuva, Thespian's Stage and Deserted Temple are your best friends. Urborg makes everything a swamp and cabal coffers, unlike cabal stronghold gives u for every swamp you control, not basic swamp. Vesuva and thespians stage copy urborg or any land you want. Deserted temple untaps cabal coffers and stronghold.
other potential, but not necessary additions can include the following...
Expedition Map to find your lands.
You DESPERATELY need artifact/enchantment removal. This can be done through All Is Dust, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Karn Liberated, Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone, Scour from Existence Ratchet Bomb and Spine of Ish Sah.
Bonus point: Spine + Trading Post = Repeatable removal. Trading post can help you discard horrible cards you got with erebos to gain life to draw more cards, discard a creature to reanimate later. Creature a chump blocker. Artifact recursion and sac outlet for both creatures and artifacts so they dont get exiled.
Mind Twist - Best discard spell imo
Imp's Mischief - SUPER UTILITY. Redirect's counterspells to imp's mischief to save your torment of hailfire you spent 20 mana into. Redirect some extra turn spells that target, redirect path....and best of all no one expects it from the black player.
Blue players/instant speed interaction giving you issues? Add Mana Web with urborg to make them tap out always (unless they have rocks or dorks).
A funny idea could be to add Soul Conduit or Mirror Universe to switch life totals since black operates out of life loss. If you add Necropotence (or rather when you do), you can bring yourself to one life and switch with your opponent. Necropotence also has high synergy with vensers journal. Pay life, draw cards, gain life draw cards... necro can be used for redundancy with ur commander in case someone uses nevermore or declaration of naught.
Hero's Downfall for PW removal.
Alhammarret's Archive - For extra card draw.
Thats enough for now. Proxy whatever you cant buy or want to try out. I have several ideas for cuts if you're interested. Cheers!
3 months ago
Those are some great suggestions, Profet93, thanks.
The majority of wins that this deck produces, are off of cards like Exsanguinate, Torment of Hailfire, or the basic combos. Stall with creature hate, then hit heavy. It was meta-born, so it didn’t really run into the artifact/ enchantment issue. But the more I play it, I’m sure I will encounter those issues.
Having said that, you gave me some good cards to play around with:
Soul Conduit seems like it should find a way into the deck.
And, All Is Dust seems like some gold that I kept overlooking.
I don’t think that Oversold Cemetery is gonna find a place in the deck. I really don’t have enough creatures to allow this card to work, on a consistent basis. And, Grim Discovery is kind of a meta-based card, it’s there for land-hate I run into.
3 months ago
How are do you deal with artifacts and enchantments, or do you just try to play under/race whatever you are facing? I feel in a race you would lose to any real dedicated combo deck whose pieces are more interactive with the rest of their deck.
If you're into BS, since you have Urborg, you can run Kormus Bell to make everyone's lands swamps. Then play massacre worm to destroy their lands, make them lose life and then swing for the win.
3 months ago
spaceman42 firstly, thank you! I have thought about Mind Twist, great card! It would definitely hit hard in a one on one setting but this is more of a multiplayer deck so I steered clear of cards that say "Target player discards..." and more towards cards that say "Each opponent discards..."
That being said, I love cards with 'X' in the mana cost...so it may find it's way in.