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|Masterpiece Series: Amonkhet Invocations||Rare|
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Mind Twist Discussion
3 weeks ago
If you're going for sheer value, junk deecks (abzan, WGB, whatever ou want to call it) are solid. Between a solid dork package and some decent card advantage pieces, you can start spewing threats like Anafenza, the Foremost, Siege Rhino and Sigarda, Host of Herons very quickly.
The other benefit of junk is that you can build quite a consistent mana base for cheap. I would also strongyl recommend running Stirring Wildwood - I have had a lot of good experiences with it.
3 weeks ago
On the whole, I really like this banlist. Sure there are cards that are on it that I wish weren't on it (Back to Basics to punish multicolored decks, Humility to punish goodstuff decks), but there are lots of cards that are on it that I am glad are on it (literally all of the fast mana, Necropotence, Doomsday, Sensei's Divining Top, etc.) that will help the format. In addition, I wish the list also had Panoptic Mirror which goes infinite with any of the many Time Warp effects, Upheaval which easily turns a game one-sided, Captain Sisay to match all the other commanders that tutor, among others, but I'm glad they removed some of the tamer cards from the list, like Coalition Victory and Worldfire.
If you are curious on what the changes are from the paper commander banlist, I've examined the lists and here are the differences the MTGO banlist made to the official paper banlist:
- Arcum Dagsson
- Back to Basics
- Bazaar of Baghdad
- Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
- Edric, Spymaster of Trest
- Food Chain
- Gaea's Cradle
- Hermit Druid
- Mana Crypt
- Mana Drain
- Mana Vault
- Mind Twist
- Mishra's Workshop
- Oath of Druids
- Natural Order
- Protean Hulk
- Survival of the Fittest
- The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
- Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
- Zur the Enchanter
1 month ago
if money isn't a problem i would recommend Mind Twist. that card seems like it would be really good here.
1 month ago
First I'd like to say that this is almost certainly one of the best Chainer decks I've seen (though most chainer decks are not very good). Buut... (also, I did read the description for each card before commenting)
Nether Traitor seems quite bad. In general the card is bad, it's body is totally irrelevant and Reassembling Skeleton is basically always better if you're just sacrificing it. There are a few decks that can justify both but you would need a lot more to make it work.
Dictate of Erebos seems fantastic here, pact is great, dictate is often > pact
Mindcrank wtf, maybe I'm missing something but I absolutely cannot figure out why you would want to play this card, it actually just helps your opponents and I can't see any combo with it. I guess it gives you more stuff to chainer, but I would honestly rather play Chimney Imp than this card (Actually Chittering Rats might not be bad). (If you cast exsanguinate for 20 and still need mindcrank to win, you need to rethink your deck)
Library of Leng again wtf, this card has two effects that have both been printed on lands (Reliquary Tower and Nephalia Academy) and don't even seem like effects this deck wants. Why is this here? (Note that with necro you can just discard your creatures and reanimate them with chainer in response to the exile trigger to keep them so it's not even insane there)
Dark Depths I mean if you're already playing stage and map... Hardcasting Marit Lage is a real thing too.
Night's Whisper tends to be a bit better than SiB as it can't be misdirected which in my experience comes up more than the life loss.
Sensei's Divining Top given that you already play fetches and with all this tutoring, top seems very good.
Darkness - A black fog existing does not mean you should be playing it, going down a card to gain a bit of life is not a good trade. Hence why mono green decks don't play fog.
Rune-Scarred Demon I guess I could understand not playing this for the same reason as Sheoldred, but Sheoldred is significantly worse than this card..
If you're playing Contamination you are clearly open to no fun allowed options - Infernal Darkness is basically contamination but for the first 5 turns of it being in play the overall cost is lower than maintaining it with chainer activations.
Skullclamp - You're playing a sacrifice deck, but are not playing the best sacrifice deck card ever printed, just blanked or intentional?
This deck is missing the absurdly broken Chainer card that is Laquatus's Champion. Now this card may seem garbo at a glance but it's true power surfaces when you have an altar in play, he becomes a 1 card + lots of mana combo to kill people. Step 1) Chainer him into play. Step 2) Resolve the life loss trigger. Step 3) Sac him, put the life gain trigger on the stack. Step 4) Respond to the trigger by going back to step 1, repeat until the chosen player is dead. It gets even better when you have Exquisite Blood in play and you actually get to not die while doing it! (This combo may be awful, 100% worth testing though, also chainer make Laquatus's Champion so 10/10 flavor)
1 month ago
1 month ago
SageOfStone: Sorry it took me so long to respond, I've been meaning to get back to you but I was wiped out all weekend and then today has been hectic. But I wanted to properly address your comment - you've given me a lot of awesoem feedback and points to ponder.
As for your individual card comments:
I hear what you're saying about the Joraga Treespeaker. I think it can be a bit slow, but it has potential. I added it sonce I've upped my elf count (primarily for Priest of Titania) - I want to give it the acid test and I'll see how it holds out.
While Mindbreak Trap isn't as powerful anymore, the fact that it exiles rather than counters is a huge plus for me. I'm typically playing against big eldrazi (one of the main decks I play against is a Captain Sisay deck) and being able to exile them so they don't reshuffle is huge. Notto mention, it's one of the few counterspells I have that shuts down a Dragonlord Dromoka (again, a card I see often).
I've been o nthe fence about Glen Elendra Archmage for a while now. While it's really good, I often have the problem that 4 mana to play it plus 2 mana free for countering often leaves me tapped out otherwise. I prefer having options, plus having that bluff can be nice sometimes.
I used to run Prophet of Kruphix and found that it pulled a lot of aggro. My concern is that Seedborn Muse would have the same effect and that the benefit it would bring wouldn't be enough to offset that. Plus I owuld personally prefer to run more ramp rather than an untap effect as onc eyou have Damia mana you're generally pretty good.
I actually used to run Jace, the Mind Sculptor, but cut it for Baleful Strix. I found that with a small (and weak) creature base, people would just swing into Jace if they had nothing better to do. Baleful Strix on the other hand has the opposite effect, plus it can act as a backup Rune-Scarred Demon in combo.
Again, I used to run Chord of Calling back in the day when thedeck was a lot more creature heavy. Becuase most of the creatures in the deck now are either mana dorks or need multiple creatures to combo, I ended up cutting it as it became less and less useful.
Just like Chord and Jace, I also ran Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for a bit. The thing I noticed with him though is that because i was one of the heaviest control decks in the meta, I usually didin't need him as I had enough counterspells to resolve my combo. He might make a second appearance i nthe deck if I start coming up against more control decks though.
Sower of Temptation is interesting. I think the biggest interaction I like with it is that you can bounce it with Riptide Laboratory however it feels ab it niche in the curent build. I will add it to the maybe board though, because it's an interesting idea.
Again, I used to run Mind Twist a long time ago. It is pretty dirty, however I've found that in multiplayer it's not anywhere near as powerful as in 1v1. If this was a due lcommander list, I would be running it in a heartbeat however here I'm focusing more on reactive control rather than proactive.
Honestly, I've never felt the compulsion ot run Trinket Mage in a deck. I run him in a prototype deck however that deck is somewhere in the order of $4K and he has a lot of targets. Here, I find him underwhelming. Baleful strix is actually really good as it acts a deterent for people to attack me. PLus hte flying blocker is nice.
Very long ago I made toe conscious choice to run Archaeomancer over Snapcaster Mage. This was because I liked the non-exiling nature of Archaeomancer, making it work better in combo. I would consder running snappy alongside, but not instead of. I run Noxious Revival in my Saffi deck and can vouch for it, however I don't know if I need it as I'm not a storm combo deck. Yawgmoth's Will is one of those cards I've been on the fence about runnign for a long time. It will probably see its way into the edck eventually. I don't like Regrowth here though for the same reason as revival. I don't need that much 1/1 recursion.
Unfortunately my meta is quite heavy on creatures attacking, so I think Ad Nauseam is out. I have another combo deck I would like to test it in (that super expesive prototype deck) but I think it's too heavy here.
I hear what you're saying about stroke/blue sun's. The benefit of the USZ combo thoug his that technically none of the peices ever have to hit the graveyard and especially with these new bibcycle lands coming out and with only needing 1 more fetch, the mana base of the deck is overall pretty solid.
I think there are a few cards here that really should make their way into the deck. Long term I think I will try to add a Cavern of Souls (plus the new art is beautiful) alnog with Yawgmoth's Will and potentially a Snapcaster Mage (alongside Archaeomancer). There are a few others like Sower of Temptation which are interesting as well. I'll definitely give them some thought.
Thank you again for your comment and the upvote. It's always good to get a fresh perspective on the deck and especially from someone who has been playing a bit more combo focused deck, it provides me with some good ideas which I may not have seen originally coming from a control point of view.
1 month ago
Hi, enpc! I'm responding to the comment left on my Damia Primer. You said you wanted to try to fit Day's Undoing in, as well as possibly Gilded Drake.
I see you removed Remoraid for Day's. I personally don't play Remoraid, but its mostly a meta call because there are a lot of dorks in my group. I think I would rather nix the Joraga Treespeaker. My friend who plays green and I argue about that card all day. Personally I think its a bit slow, not producing any extra mana on turn two, which consuming mana on turn one.
This is definitely more of a control variant than my list is. Back when I played dedicated control, I liked my counterspell count around the 8-10 range, which is where you are. Personally I could see you cutting Mindbreak Trap for Gilded Drake or even Maelstrom Pulse. Both are super good picks for a control build. Mindbreak Trap is super niche, and aside from being a potentially free counterspell, countering a ton of spells at once isn't as relevant anymore. Most storm decks win with Aetherflux Reservoir.
I kinda miss my control deck. There are a lot of great cards that can be put to much better use in those variants. I'll leave a few as suggestions.
Glen Elendra Archmage - I see you have it in your main list, but its not here. I love this card, and even though my deck is dedicated fast combo, I can't fully remove it. Its sitting in my Wishboard right now, and its never leaving. For control, its a godsend.
Seedborn Muse - I've always thought Seedborn Muse was a better Prophet of Kruphix. When I played control, if I could pass turn with this critter out, I generally always won. The only downside is not being able to flash in Damia before your untap like with Prophet, but for just being ready on everybody's turn, its great. It gives you a lot more wiggle room to be proactive while still controlling. It also makes controlling three opponents possible for potentially indefinite amounts of time.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - His 4cmc is a bit daunting, but he does too much. His brainstorm effect helps as general redundancy, and his -1 works great with all your ETB creatures.
Chord of Calling - A bit of an expensive tutor, but being able to fetch up Venser in response or Glen Elendra or what have you is just so valuable.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - Again, a bit pricey. But control is kinda go value or go home. He does very interesting (read broken) things with Mystical Teachings. A little known fact about Teferi is that he gives every creature in your deck Flash (while they're in the deck). Which means Teachings can fetch creatures. It also is fetched by teachings. Silencing everybody while you combo off is very good to. There are a few competitive strats that can't deal with Teferi on the field either.
Sower of Temptation - Being a wizard means you can make it uncounterable with Cavern of Souls (a great land that I always recommend). Its also fetchable instant speed with Chord of Calling. Like with Gilded Drake, it really helps screw over commander centric strats.
Mind Twist - Probably the dirtiest card ever printed. I've actually made somebody quit playing EDH forever with this (which is unfortunate). But if your group is okay with anything, I recommend it. It just brutalizes somebody. One card to make one player lose. Its pretty good. Helps you only have to use counterspells and removal on two opponents.
Trinket Mage - I promise my control build was only coincidentally wizard tribal. This little guy fetches Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Sensei's, Mana Vault, and if you get them, the Moxen. I explained it on my primer that its also an out to the Deadeye / Palinchron combo. At the very least, it seems more relevant all around than Baleful Strix.
Yawgmoth's Will, Noxious Revival, Regrowth, Snapcaster Mage - BUG has the best recursion suite in the game, and the only piece of the five you're playing is Eternal Witness. These would add extra layers of resilience to your deck.
Ad Nauseam - Your average CMC is <3. If your metagame doesn't have a ton of creature combat, you can probably live with Ad Nauseam.
My last little suggestion here is if you add the superstar recursion suit, either change Blue Sun's Zenith for Stroke of Genius or play both. Stoke is easier to cast without infinite mana, and going to the graveyard drastically increases its playability in pre-end game scenarios.
Overall, great deck. I loved looking through it. +1 to this and to your main list.
1 month ago
And on the subject of the Invocations, I think I've identified what annoys me about them: the title font, and those damn little black squares on either side of the main text. I might pick up Mind Twist, Entomb, Diabolic Intent, and Vindicate, though.
How do you think the pricing for the Invocations will compare to that of the Masterpieces and the Expeditions?