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Mind Twist Discussion
2 weeks ago
NV_1980 Thanks for the Ideas man! I do agree that i can definitely add more in terms of mana ramp, draw, and payoffs.
I most likely won't put in cards such as Hymn to Tourach or Mind Twist Primarily because they're single-use targeted discard. The only times I'd consider discard spells that don't go for all players / all opponents is when they're repeatable.
As for Paupers' Cage and the like, I'm defninitely adding them soon when I have the budget for it!
Your suggestions definitely helped and I hope to add them to the decklist over time.
2 weeks ago
I like this deck; I'd recommend some changes though. Adding some more mana rocks and/or other ramp options helps this deck's speed a bit. Cards like Sol Ring, Jet Medallion, Thought Vessel, Dark Ritual and Cabal Ritual could be considered.
You already have some nice draw options, but in mono-black I usually go for Underworld Connections and/or Phyrexian Arena no matter what other options I have, because these are so reliable; they don't require you to do anything in order to work.
Hymn to Tourach and Mind Twist are great discard spells. Paupers' Cage, Rackling, Wheel of Torture and The Rack all have great potential to damage opponents for having too few cards in their hands. Bloodchief Ascension and Painful Quandary are especially powerful in a deck like this.
Hope any of this helps; good luck brewing and playing!
3 weeks ago
Sweet deck bro! If Mind Twist wasn't banned in Legacy this deck would be insane.
3 weeks ago
For starters, you have like 6 more point s you can play with and more than that, Skullclamp is zero points.
I would recommend cutting stuff like Anointed Procession - it doesn't do anything by itself.
Smuggler's Copter could be good here to help tokens connect.
Mother of Runes is a must. She is so good.
1 month ago
Hi there, i'll share all the knowledge i've gathered after playing discard decks for more than 5 years (i've built monoblack creatureless discard, monoblack creature discard, UB discard, RB discard, Grixis discard, specter discard, etc.).
The first i see here is that you don't have anything to deal with the board, so you'll more than probably die to anything that hits the board, even a simple 3/1 two-drop. Your deck relies too much on damaging your opponent through giving him many cards and forcing him to discard not that many; the only card in your deck that punishes him this way is Liliana's Caress and that's it, it's not reliable. You also run two copies of Painful Quandary which it's ideal mechanics are to punish your opponent for having no hand, but since you are forcing him to draw so many cards, he'll always have the option to discard while playing a spell (only taking 2 damage from Liliana's Caress and only if you have the enchant on the battlefield).
You have many cards that allow you or your opponent to draw and discard cards, but you only have Alms of the Vein to exploit this mechanic, so get rid of those or stick in more madness cards.
The description says "the goal of this deck is to get your opponent as low as possible", but you can't do that quickly by relying only on 4 copies of Liliana's Caress while you'll be recieving lot's of threats and hits. Master of the Feast will for sure get destroyed by any of the thousands removal spells you'll force your opponent to draw, so it won't be dealing too much damage if any.
Let's work on the solution. First of all, you need your deck to have more consistant way to deal damage and you also need to get rid of your opponent's threats until you've reached mid-late game and you can develop your winning mechanics.
Since you have almost no creature, let's take advantage of that so that you can trade one card of yours for many cards of your opponent. Good cards to do this, depending on the money you want to spend are, for example, Drown in Sorrow , Yahenni's Expertise , Languish and Damnation.
You also need to be faster or at least to be able to delay your opponent's strategy. A way of doing this is by disrupting his early moves to wreck his plan. Cards like Inquisition of Kozilek , Thoughtseize , Duress and Despise excell at doing so.
To strenghten the draw and discard engine you have many cards at your disposal. I don't know if you want to keep the deck in the modern format or to build a casual free of legal restriction deck, so I'll recommend a variety of cards like Chains of Mephistopheles , Probe , Wheel and Deal , Ill-Gotten Gains , Urza's Guilt , Anvil of Bogardan , Whispering Madness , Dark Deal , Font of Mythos , Forced Fruition , Geier Reach Sanitarium , Memory Jar and Temple Bell.
You need more cards than Liliana's Caress to punish your opponent for discarding or drawing cards. All of these are good for the task, suit yourself: Underworld Dreams , Psychosis Crawler , Fate Unraveler , Waste Not , Megrim and Words of Waste.
Since you and your opponent will be drawing lots of cards, you will be able to discard cards too or abuse your card-drawing. This does not only work well for madness, but also with delve, retrace and other cards. Consider some of these: Chain of Smog , Last Rites , Big Game Hunter , Raven's Crime , Syphon Life , Cunning Lethemancer , Necrogen Mists , Psychotic Haze , Call to the Netherworld , Dark Withering , Gibbering Descent and also Sphinx's Tutelage.
You'll be forcing your opponent to draw many many cards, so you'll need cards that make him discard more than one to win the trade. Consistant massive discard cards are for example this ones: Brink of Madness , Mindstab , Mind Twist , Mind Shatter or Delirium Skeins.
Which ones and how many
Pick the ones you like the most according to their mana costs and their price. Also consider the ammount of black mana symbols in their cost, because you'll be playing a two colors deck.
Try to keep it as balanced as you can in terms of cards functions. Maybe 30% draw/discard engine - 30% draw/discard punishment - 20% massive discard - 10% 1drops quality discard - 10% board whipe. You'll have to test and adjust the numbers.
I know most of those cards are black, but you can keep it UB if you want to. Best version I've made of this strategy was using Grixis (Blue Black and Red) because there's a lot of red cards that force both players to discard and draw like Burning Inquiry and Reforge the Soul for example. Grixis also enables the use of Nekusar, the Mindrazer , Blightning , Sedraxis Specter , Blazing Specter and Dack Fayden.
I hope it's helpful! Best wishes!
1 month ago
Mike94: Hmmmm. Myojin of Night's Reach is neat but pretty costly to cast. My concern is that by the time I cast it (mid to late game), my opponents won't have many cards in hand so it might not be worth the mana investment. I'll think on it but I'm not rushing to add it.
Kyln: No argument about Ensnaring Bridge, it's perfect. The only reason I didn't include it from the start was budget concerns. But I splurged and picked one up... a week before it was revealed as a reprint in Masters 25 :p
notorioez: I've tried to cut down on the single-player-target spells in this deck and for the cost of Monomania, I'd probably rather something that makes them discard their whole hand. Like maybe Mind Twist... which I just recently took out.
IAmTheWraith you definitely grabbed my attention with Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip as a commander. I was thinking about her for at least a month after your suggestion and even printed out as proxy of her to test as a commander. Then I realized her trigger to transform is based on another nontoken creature I control dying (not her dying), which is a bit more limiting when I only have 12 other creatures in the deck. In the end, I'm gonna pass on her as a general.
I hear you EternalBrewmaster. One with Nothing is super cool and I've used it in Dredge decks to great effect ;) But here it's not really on-strategy: I want to focus on making my opponents discard and while I don't mind "everyone discards" effects, there's little benefit to only me discarding my hand.
2 months ago
I completely agree. Against storm you can add in the new 2 CMC artifact (dampening something) from Dominara and maybe some targeted discard like Mind Twist could help, although I don't have much experience against storm.
I find the deck is great against creature based strategies as you said.
I don't think Chainer is the best though, if anything, Sidisi, Undead Vizier might be better as a reuseable tutor in the command zone
2 months ago
I absolutely love Breya, so when I saw this in the banner I thought I'd stop by.
Point of reference for my Breya list: Breya's Party Pants
All advice I provide will be from the perspective of the above deck. My playgroup is exceptionally cutthroat- IE, if you can't combo off on turns 4-5 or prevent someone from comboing on those turns then you may as well not bother, etc.. Admitting, my deck is all-in on three very specific combos, but I think at least one of them would push this deck to new heights.
You run Wheel of Fortune, but not Notion Thief. I definitely think you need to squeeze Notion Thief into the deck. Lots of competitive decks run cards that draw lots per turn, from Mystic Remora to Windfall and the like, and Notion Thief not only shuts those down, but turns them into pure, blissful card advantage for you. You could easily replace Thopter Spy Network with the Thief and enjoy superb card advantage.
Examples of how good Notion Thief is:
I had a game a few weeks ago where I Entombed Notion Thief t1, and then untapped on turn 2 to cast Reanimate on him and Winds of Change after. Everyone shuffled their hands into their libraries, and I drew 22-24 cards. I then proceeded to win that same turn by playing Mox Diamond and Mana Crypt into Frantic Search, discarding Worldgorger Dragon and Snapcaster, which untapped my 2 lands and let me play Dance of the Dead to bring Worldgorger back and generate infinite mana (I believe I had Gemstone Mine on field). After making 1 septillion of each color, I reanimated Snapcaster instead and then cast and sacrificed Breya repeatedly to Bolt everyone to death.
Even without going all in on that kind of thing like I have, t3-t4 Notion Thief into t4-t5 Wheel of Fortune is still stupid good. Everyone gets Mind Twisted but you and you draw a huge number of cards in one turn, which means it's really, really hard for your opponents to break up your combos as they'll have nothing in hand.
I would recommend dropping Sphinx's Revelation for Windfall, and maybe one of the Daretti Walkers for Winds of Change, since they're powerfully disruptive, dig you to plenty of new cards, and when combined with Notion Thief would give you some of the greatest card advantage you can get in a 2 card combo in Commander.
Beyond that, I do love the look of the deck. I adore Rube-Goldberg Commander decks. That's what I did with my Ghave deck lol (which, you're probably not interested, but it's here: Ghave: Baby Makin' and Alimony).