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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Creature — Dragon
Delve (You may exile cards from your graveyard as you cast this spell. Each card you exile while casting this spell pays for .)
This enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each instant and sorcery card exiled with it.
Whenever an instant or sorcery card leaves your graveyard, put a +1/+1 counter on this.
darkmus on Ang-Hellic
2 weeks ago
Well, I am still testing Sigarda, Font of Blessings but for now its doing an amazing job, definitely a keep IMO. Both the "card draw" and the protection effects are huge on their own, and combos like a charm with Giver of Runes and/or Shalai, Voice of Plenty to have our stuff pretty much untouchable. Add Heroic intervention in now that we can, and we have a lot of layers of protection. Thats's actually the main difference between our builds, I try to protect our stuff as much as possible (since we can barely draw) while you go a bit more all in in life gain triggers (that's why Thune would work for you even better than for me). I also play angels in historic with coco, I pretty much play angels everywhere I can, xD. I've tried coco before, but I didn't have much positive difference if any in winrate, and restricted me way more in deck building. I have way more fun with this build. I've haven't meet that many Stormbreath Dragons in a while, so I dont really count for them. WG is not the best color to deal with that, but tbh, we gain so much life that on defense a 4/4 hitting us every turn doesn't really worry me much normally. And on attack, amongst Giver of Runes's protection, Righteous Valkyries anthem and the counters from Giada, Font of Hope and Archangel of Thune opponent may have free blocks, but a 4/4 is not killing our angels. Best option to remove it in white is most likely Settle the Wreckage I use 2 of them in and out of the side depending the meta. If you play most games against your buddy with the dragon, black my be the best second color for you, but with what I am testing, Sigarda seems the way to go.She ads so much. I can totally respect flavor, check my list and you will see that in this deck (as said, pet deck, xD) I've burn too much money in lands just for flavor, haha. I used to play 2 Lyra Dawnbringer and 2 Archangel of Thune but slowly Thune took all the places. 90% of times ill rather play Thune than Lyra. She would be even better in your build, and you can stack her since it's not legendary. I don't think that Shadowspear is a good card here, and really bad for want you want from it. You have only 1 and no way to search for it, so you are almost never going to actually be able to use it for what you want, and even when you do, you still need some way to kill Heliod. Since you are playing black, the best option you have to deal with indestructible (arguably the best in the game) is Anguished Unmaking. it will deal with anything but lands instant speed. The 3 life loss is irrelevant in this deck. I tried soul warden and is not good enough, it gives us more lines to have t3 Resplendent Angel trigger and more Thune triggers but other than that, adds almost nothing and mid to late game is a totally dead draw. Quite similar thing happens to speaker, slightly better, the ceiling of that is huge, but the floor is way to low. If you are losing and top deck this, you have lost. Esper Sentinel is a great card up to the mid to late game, while Giver of Runes is always a great draw. And both of them must be answered pretty much t1, if you play t1 giver or sentinel they are taking their Fatal Push before she can tap. If you play speaker or warden, your way more valuable t2 Giada, Font of Hope and Bishop of Wings are taking that push. Amongst Giver of Runes and Esper Sentinel both have their pros and cons, Sentinel give us much needed card advantage and can be played with Sigarda, Font of Blessings ability, while giver protects our stuff or makes it unblackable and is a cleric so she triggers Righteous Valkyrie and against control we may even be able to set our second cavern of souls to cleric to cover all our creatures. In my build, which goes big in keeping our stuff alive to somewhat offset the lack of card draw, she is the best option for sure. And overall I'll say it's the better option, synergizes better with the rest of the deck and she's always great, while Sentinel does nothing against creature decks, and mid to late game they are more often than not going to be able to pay for it. I used to play Serra Avenger when there weren't other 2cmc angels, but she's only good with vial, now we have better options. To me Aether Vial is a must, it ramps use, guarantees a "landrop" and allow us a lot of interesting lines, like triggering Resplendent Angel on opponent turn or use Shalai, Voice of Plenty and Sigarda, Font of Blessings as short of counter spell, amongst many other things. Psicologically is also great, because even if you are tapped out, opponents would be uncertain to attack if you can instant speed a blocker. I haven't tried soul partition, but I dont know if our deck is fast enough to not have whatever they exiled back in play before we can take them. I'll rather pay an extra mana for Anguished Unmaking and have the thing gone for good. Lay Down Arms looks decent, but I dont think it is. The rare creature we are worried about enough to need to remove it tends to be "cheated" in play, like Archon of Cruelty, Primeval Titan or Murktide Regent, and that won't hit those on time. Also the sorcery speed. I'll rather have Path to Exile or Fateful Absence. I don't think neither Legions to Ashes or Temporary Lockdown are good enough for Modern. Legion to ashes does fill a good sideboard slot, but IMO Declaration in Stone is a bit more flexible and cheaper. Ive used it often in the side and its great simply as a removal, and amazing against tokens. Temporary lockdown also hits our stuff, which is a no no. In arena can be good because we care about 3cmc, but it is not here. I do play FNMs and sometimes modern LGS tournaments with this deck (which is pretty much the most "competitive" events I play), because I love it and I want to test and play and win with it, but tbh, the times I really want to do well this is rarely what I play. And yes, I've never had a mirror match in any of those, xD. Or almost ever in years really... I think that covers all, haha.
wallisface on competitive cards vs casual cards
2 months ago
What seshiro_of_the_orochi said is correct, but just to extrapolate on that:
individual cards aren’t “competitive” on their own. Amulet of Vigor, Murktide Regent, Stoneforge Mystic etc are all undeniably strong cards in decks we typically see them, bit their “competitiveness” is dictated entirely by the other cards in the deck and whether they have the support they need. Even cards that are seen of as “generically good” don’t show up in every top-tier deck that can support them (example being no Solitude in Modern Hammer Time).
a decks competitiveness is also dictated by the meta it’s running in. The highest-tiered Burn deck would be completely uncompetitive in a world of Lifegain decks, and the strongest-possible Tron deck would completely suck in a world of land-destruction and/or Mill.
Dead_Blue_ on Magic: The Countering
4 months ago
Counterspell is now legal
Impulse or Consider over Think Twice
Tarmogoyf is like 10$ if you ever felt like adding some or perhaps Murktide Regent
zapyourtumor on Murky Waters
5 months ago
Card Suggestions Show
I think the main decision you have to make with this deck is whether you want it to be a true control deck or a tempo deck. A true control deck would try to trade one for one and build card advantage before dropping a threat like Murktide or Jace or simply winning with Snappy beatdown. A tempo deck on the other hand would try to turbo out a quick Murktide and then protect that threat.
Mixing control and tempo is nothing new, and it sometimes works quite well. But because a lot of the cards from each type of deck don't necessarily go well together, you can sometimes end up in an awkward situation.
Here, you definitely have a mix of both types (which, I'd like to emphasize, is not necessarily bad). Archmage's Charm, Counterspell, Cryptic Command, Snapcaster Mage, Devastation Tide and Jace, the Mind Sculptor are all heavily control-flavored cards in your deck. They all either break even or generate card advantage, or massively stall out the game.
On the other hand, Force of Negation, Otherworldly Gaze, Thought Scour, Spell Pierce, and Subtlety are all tempo-flavored cards.
The problem with this combination in this deck is that half of your cards aim to turbo out a Murktide Regent as fast as possible with Otherworldly Gaze and Thought Scour and then protect it in the short term with cheap spells like Dismember, Force of Negation, Subtlety, and Spell Pierce. The main problems with these cards is that they are pretty terrible topdecks late game. Scour isn't too bad because it cantrips, but topdecking a Gaze when you really needed a counterspell or card advantage engine or a Murktide would probably feel terrible. And all the control-type cards aim to reach that stage of the game.
One example of a problem that arises when you try and combine these two archetypes is in the manabase. Tempo decks typically don't need many lands; depending on the deck's mana curve, we are generally looking at 19-20 lands, and occasionally even 18 or less. On the other hand, control decks almost always want at least 22-23 lands, sometimes up to 24-26 lands in order to reliably play their more expensive spells on curve like Archmage's Charm, Cryptic Command and Snapcaster Mage, and to also always have mana held up during their opponents turn for a reactive spell.
Of course, many cards fit very flexibly into both tempo and control decks, for example Counterspell is just so strong it works in both, while Consider being a cheap cantrip also fits into both types. So in my opinion one of the most important decisions you should make, if you want to make the deck more cohesive and just function smoother as a whole, is whether you want to lean more towards tempo or control.
Quick disclaimer: I think it is definitely possible to make the deck more competitive while keeping both tempo and control aspects; however you should probably then trim both the very slow control-leaning cards (Cryptic Command, Devastation Tide, Jace, the Mind Sculptor), and the cheap tempo-leaning cards (Otherworldly Gaze, Thought Scour, Force of Negation) and replace them with cards more towards the middle ground. The rest of the cards, like Archmage's Charm, Subtlety, Force of Negation, Spell Pierce, Dismember, and of course Murktide Regent are all flexible enough that they can slot into both types of decks.
The second important decision to make is what secondary color, if any, you want for your deck in order to complement the primary color (blue). The main issue with mono blue control is that you have very few ways to deal with resolved permanents, which is why most players typically splash white or black (or occasionally red). Blue only has access to bounce spells, which are decent in tempo decks but generally bad in control decks because they are card disadvantage (and also terrible late).
Here, I see you kind of "splashed" black, but your only maindeck spell with black pips uses phyrexian mana anyways, while the only black spell in your sideboard can be casted with only blue mana. In my opinion, since you already have black lands, I would commit fully to a UB manabase by including a few more fetches (U fetches since that's your main color) because it gives you access to a lot of strong options:
Drown in the Loch is a really good spell doubling as both removal and countermagic at only 2 cmc, and only gets stronger as the game goes on. Fatal Push is another great removal spell which is generally stronger than Dismember, although it needs at least around 7 fetches to show its full potential. You can also run discard like Inquisition of Kozilek, although that is more tempo/midrange-esque so it may not be a great fit for this deck. Black also gives you an actual boardwipe in the form of Damnation, which is definitely a lot stronger than something like Devastation Tide since it gets rid of the creatures permanently and indirectly generates CA by trading with multiple enemy creature cards. It also doesn't hit Jace. If you don't think you need it in the mainboard, it can be a great sideboard inclusion. Lastly you have access to some sideboard options like Unmoored Ego.
If all of the blue pip spells like Counterspell and Archmage's Charm have you worried about mana fixing issues, you can run the filter land Sunken Ruins which is great in these types of decks to ensure you can cast both BB and UUU spells.
Those two main points aside, I have a few other card suggestions I think could work well here, some of which lean more control and some which lean more tempo.
Ledger Shredder is a great card which leans a bit more towards tempo but unlike Gaze/Thought Scour it helps turbo out a Murktide while also growing into a significant threat itself.
Aether Gust and Mystical Dispute are decent color-specific sideboard cards.
Remand is a tempo-leaning card that is generally not great in pure control lists, but could be good here if you decide to stick to the turbo murktide strategy.
Spreading Seas is probably the best sideboard option mono-blue has against Urza's Saga.
Memory Deluge has a bit of antisynergy with Murktide, but a very good digging spell if you decide to go towards control.
Orvar, the All-Form is another great sideboard card which instantly turns the tables on any Creativity player thinking they auto won the game after cheating out an early Archon of Cruelty.
If you made it this far, thanks for reading all of my comments. I like the deck and I'm excited to see where you can take it in the future. Happy brewing!
MrGuizee666 on Grixis wincons viability
5 months ago
wallisface Thanks for your valuable input. Unfortunately I can't buy Ledger Shredder, Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer or Murktide Regent yet, they're too expensive. Gonna brew some decks with Manamorphose. I thought about using creature cards like Monastery Swiftspear, Sprite Dragon and Dreadhorde Butcher with Mutagenic Growth, Gut Shot and Manamorphose for explosive damage.
wallisface on Grixis wincons viability
5 months ago
I think you're going about this a bit wrong. Grixis decks typcically don't want to be winning by any kind of big flashy-combos, or high-mana-cards. Their gameplan is typically to grind away any kind of proactive play from the opponent, and then quickly edge-out a win before the opponent can recoup from all that early-game disruption.
To that end, iconic Grixis spells include Lightning Bolt, Fatal Push, Inquisition of Kozilek, Thoughtseize, Counterspell, Spell Pierce, and Stubborn Denial, as well as occasionally some stuff like Drown in the Loch, Expressive Iteration, and Unholy Heat. Their creatures are often cards that can hit hard fast, or come with free value - things like Death's Shadow, Snapcaster Mage, Dragon's Rage Channeler, Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer, Gurmag Angler, Ledger Shredder, and occasionally things like Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Murktide Regent.
So, their gameplan is typically a very straightforward one - every one of their cards provides value on its own, everything is fairly low-mana-curve, and the overall goal is to quickly disrupt your opponents ability to play, and then kill them before they recover.
In terms of the cards you've suggested, I would say they don't really fit into any kind of typical Grixis shell, for the following reasons:
Cormela, Glamour Thief is a very high-costing card with very low relative value for that mana-investment. Same goes for Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God.
Grapeshot is a combo card and something better having a deck dedicated towards making it work. Instead of trying to do value-plays, you try and combo off asap. This archetype already exists in Modern as Storm, so has no real home/reason-to-exist outside of that. Similarly, as Grixis isn't trying to do any flashy combos, Manamorphose & Dramatic Reversal have super-limited/non-existant use.
Lazav, the Multifarious doesn't really do anything or add anything important to be worth building around, imo. Grixis decks especially often have a super-low creature count, which makes its ability pretty niche. Maybe it's a "pet card" that could fit as a 1-of in a death's shadow brew?
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger is a fine card to include in Grixis decks, as many decks already run this (though often as only a 1-of or 2-of at most) - it definately requires some deckbuilding considerations to include it though. I think Ob Nixilis, the Adversary could potentially fit within a Grixis shell, though Grixis decks do often run a very small quantity of creatures, and this may pose a problem.
Now, most of these cards you can still easily build decks around, though I would say you generally don't want to be trying to fit them into typical "Grixis" builds. Some of these cards fit a lot better in UR combo decks (Grapeshot, Manamorphose) for example. I would say that all the cards you've mentioned will have some home within modern, baring only Cormela, Glamour Thief (the card is trash) and Dramatic Reversal (there's just better ways to achieve anything this card is trying to achieve).
keizerbuns on You want more cards? You can’t handle more cards!
5 months ago
Those are all great suggestions, Dead_Blue_! I’m sure I could find a spot for Day's Undoing somewhere and Hurkyl's Recall looks like an excellent sideboard card. Murktide Regent is a great suggestion too, but it‘s just a little too expensive for me to run a full set.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Dead_Blue_ on You want more cards? You can’t handle more cards!
5 months ago
I’d probably add in 4x Murktide Regent to have another game plan