Drown in the Loch

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Choose one —

• Counter target spell with converted mana cost less than or equal to the number of cards in its controller's graveyard.
• Destroy target creature with converted mana cost less than or equal to the number of cards in its controller's graveyard.

Discussion (48)

zapyourtumor on Mono-Boo-hoo

5 days ago

General notes:

Running less lands increases your chances of flipping Delver--it also increases your chances of not being able to play any of your spells which feels like shit. 14 lands is insane, you probably want at least 18-20.

Cards like Unsubstantiate are bad because they are pure card disadvantage. Against spells that can't be countered its better to just let them resolve instead of running bad cards against them.

If you want the deck to be budget, just cut the Force of Negation. 1 copy isn't going to be doing anything the vast majority of the games you play, and its half your deck budget alone.

I highly recommend splashing another color. Blue has good card draw and countermagic, but lacks removal. Splashing red or black would be the best imo. Even though it does make the manabase a little more finicky, it should be fine as long as you don't run any cards with RR or BB mana cost. If you run around 8-12 cheap duals it should be fine.

Red would be for Dragon's Rage Channeler, Lightning Bolt, Unholy Heat, and Expressive Iteration.

Black would be for Fatal Push, Inquisition of Kozilek, Drown in the Loch.

zapyourtumor on Esper Mill Control

1 week ago

Why the maindeck leyline? If your meta isn't 80% burn and belcher I'd cut it.

Similarly, you're trying to do too much with the vampire stuff. It just doesn't fit, so I'd cut both vampires, and the Elixir which doesn't really do anything here and also is a nonbo with Snapcaster Mage.

Another major problem is 16 lands. Even burn runs more than 16, thats just insane. You will be manascrewed every game. I assume budget isn't a problem if you're running Snappy, so I'd go look at some esper mill manabases online and draw inspiration from those. Notably, you should be running a lot more fetches and shocks and no Arcane Sanctum, Sejiri Refuge, Orzhov Guildgate etc.

The 8 crabs Hedron Crab + Ruin Crab are some of the best mill cards in the game, since they only cost 1 mana, can block creatures, and usually mill 12 or more cards each with fetchlands. Add in 1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds and you'll be triggering landfall every turn ez.

Drown in the Loch should be 4 of maindeck, no questions asked. Basically counterspell but it can also remove creatures.

Prismatic Ending is one of the main reasons to splash white in mill, I'd run 4 over Path to Exile which isn't as good right now.

Mill typically doesn't run targeted discard, which you may think is odd because its "controlly" but it really wants to mill the opponent out as fast as possible while removing and countering potential threats. I'd cut the Thoughtseizes and Serum Visions. To replace Visions I suggest 4x Visions of Beyond, which is basically Ancestral Recall (the best card in magic).

The last mill spell I suggest is Tasha's Hideous Laughter which mills around 25 cards versus hammer and other low cmc decks.

Crypt Incursion is a good one of against aggressive decks. I've lost to this card multiple times.

zapyourtumor on Curse Deck

1 week ago

You only have 4 lands that can make red or blue mana, and even if you can tutor out Curse of Echoes with Bitterheart Witch or Curse of Misfortunes, I don't know how you're gonna cast Captive Audience or Act of Treason or Claim the Firstborn.

Accursed Witch and Bitterheart Witch definitely fit with the curse theme, but I'd cut all the other Witch stuff. It goes flavor wise but not mechanics wise. Bogbrew, Cauldron Familiar, Festering Newt, Witch's Oven should all be cut for some more control and removal cards imo to give your curses more time to kill the opponent. I'd also cut most of your sorceries besides Sign in Blood since you can't steal creatures and then sac them to oven anymore.

Curse of Misfortunes is probably the best card here so I'd run 4. Curse of Surveillance is another good 1 of curse to help draw you tons of cards. Curse of Death's Hold + Overwhelming Splendor is a hard creature lock, so I suggest one of each (you can't cast splendor but you can tutor it out).

I probably suggest going UB instead of mono-B if you can. Victim of Night is ok removal, or Go for the Throat. Drown in the Loch is a good counterspell and removal. Fatal Push is another good removal spell.

I don't really know what else to suggest rn

Skysurfer on Esper Hero

1 month ago

The idea is litty and i love it but this list has 3 major issues:

1. Your sheer lack of turn 1 proactive plays makes you so hilariously screwed if you are on the draw and being on the play not nearly as threatening as you could be, along with you likely having a difficult decision of playing hero or thought erasure turn 2.

2. The massive amount of 2 ofs will likely make it really hard to have any idea of what you might draw or even see in a game and be able to critique and figure out how to mesh and meld your deck as you play more with it.

3. Your sorcery speed plays and instant/flash speed plays are all of very similar mana costs and i imagine make the deck a struggle to figure out what to play each turn; the deck cant decide if it wants to play midrange value or tempo.

I would probably with your current setup delve more into the tempo option. The first issue can be easily solved by just molding at least 2 of the Thought Erasure into either Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek so you almost always have it in your opening hand (the last erasure can mold into either another of them or a 4th Spell Queller) Drown in the Loch seems like a really good tempo option so i would take out the 2 Discovery / Dispersal for 2 more Drown in the Loch. I dont think Tomebound Lich fits very well into what you are trying to do so I would search for something more in the 1-2 drop area to be better capitalized on by ojutais command/ahtreos (Delver of Secrets  ^Flip or Esper Stormblade??) I would also cut 1-2 lands as 24 is only really played for decks that scry a lot like control. Dimir Charm or a creature buff for the tokens like Collective Effort might also be a spicy option to put in exchange for some of the spot removal like path or push. I hope this all helps. Good luck in your matches.

ManicSloth on Sisay

1 month ago

Your Prosper fanboy here! I would kill the following; Flawless Maneuver, Drown in the Loch, Chromatic Orrery, and Yawgmoth's Vile Offering. Day of Destiny I would replace with Smothering Tithe. And bring the land count down by 2.

Trullofit on Glint Delver

1 month ago

zapyourtumor thanks for advise.

But I have to say, Drown in the Loch would be good if I´m not playing playset of Deathrite Shaman and that one Klothys. Because of them, in most matches both me and oponent have graveyard empty.

That thing about Fabled Passage is right, but I can't afford more than 2 in the deck because I play only four basics. I will swap it with 3rd Treasure Cruise copy. And I agree with you, in most decks Dig Through Time is better than Treasure Cruise, but each of them often costs me 5-6 cards and Treasure Cruise give 3 of them back. So in this deck I think Treasure Cruise is not better than Dig Through Time, but at least, they are equally good.

If you now any other cards that have functions like Drown in the Loch (removal & counterspell in one card), but they don´t depend on graveyard, please let me know, because deck very much need cards with that type of effect.

zapyourtumor on Glint Delver

1 month ago

Tyrants scorn is probably the least good card here. I recommend replacing it with Drown in the Loch which is a solid counterspell and removal spell. You currently have 2 Dig Through Time + 3 Treasure Cruise + 1 Tasigur + 2 Kroxa + 4 Deathrite + 1 Klothys which is really putting a lot of strain on your graveyard, even with Jace to help fuel it. I'd ditch most of your Treasure Cruise since dig through time is better in this deck anyways.

20 Lands also looks low for this kind of build, I would probably add 2 more Fabled Passage. 3 is a good number to trigger revolt and for more exile targets from klothys and deathrite.

zapyourtumor on Mill help!

1 month ago

Wtf wallis again

Anyways, wallis already covered most of what I was going to suggest (namely cutting the slow cards, going 8crab, adding Fatal Push and Drown in the Loch) although to be honest I'm surprised that they are running Maddening Cacophony over Tasha.

If you want some repeatable mill, I don't recommend stuff like Isochron Scepter which is very mana intensive, and stuff like Fraying Sanity which relies on your other mill spells. Mesmeric Orb should be your go to. It isn't run in a lot of the most competitive mill lists anymore, but the card is still quite strong.

Since most of your 3+ cmc permanents are slow anyways, I recommend cutting them all and running Lurrus of the Dream-Den as companion. It gives you a free card and can help you recur dead crabs, or maybe a destroyed Mesmeric Orb.

For the manabase, I assume you want to keep it somewhat budget, but there are still some good options for dual lands I think you should consider. Sunken Hollow is decent but becomes worse if you run more other duals. Fetid Pools has cycling for when you're manaflooded. Temple of Deceit is a tapland also but lets you filter a bit. I thougth the midnight hunt slow lands would be cheap (most are like 2-3 bucks) but for some reason Shipwreck Marsh is 9 bucks so.