Archon of Cruelty

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Arena Legal
Block Constructed Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Gladiator Legal
Highlander Legal
Historic Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Modern Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Penny Dreadful Legal
Vintage Legal

Archon of Cruelty

Creature — Archon

Flying

Whenever this enters the battlefield or attacks, target opponent sacrifices a creature or planeswalker, discards a card, and loses 3 life. You draw a card and gain 3 life.

zapyourtumor on Jund Twist - Modern

4 days ago

Yeah so the best discard outlet, Faithless Looting, was banned a while ago (victim of HOEgaak that disgusting deck).

The best 2 mana discard outlet in red being played in most reanimation decks is Bitter Reunion currently, because after Persisting an Archon of Cruelty you can give it haste and attack for another trigger which is backbreaking. Here, the second ability is probably less relevant since Goryo's gives haste, but I still think it's better than the other options. The main issue with Faithless Salvaging is that its both slow and you're also going down on card advantage, UNLESS: you play it with cards in your hand, and then cast all cards in your hand, so you only draw a card on rebound (breaking even). Or you cast it with no cards in your hand, drawing two cards over two turns (generating card advantage).

Unfortunately many of the other good discard outlets are in blue, examples being: Prismari Command, Faithful Mending, Tainted Indulgence, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  Flip, Ledger Shredder, etc.

As I said the kind of discard outlet you run generally depends on what you want the deck to do: I'd say they are all tradeoffs between speed and power. On the fastest side we have Haggle, which can be used for turn 2 hasty Boar + Emmy although it requires 4 cards in hand. Somewhere in between but still towards the faster side we have all of the 2 mana discard spells in red. And then further toward the power side we have cards like Collective Brutality. And further still we have all the generally good cards like Fable, Spyro, etc. So basically you need to decide what balance between speed and grinding power you want the deck to have. To try and make it easier I rated all of the options in jund colors I think are worth considering along three criteria: speed, power, and flexibility. Given that this deck is a grindy midrange deck at heart (or at least I think that is what you are aiming for), speed can be useful but power and flexibility are more important in my opinion.

Speed 9 Power 1 Flex 1: Merchant of the Vale (1 mana discard spell, fast but that's all there is)

9, 2, 4: Bone Shards (also fast, but generally more relevant mid/late)

7, 5, 1: Cathartic Reunion (powerful but inflexible, seen in dredge)

7, 2, 4: Cathartic Pyre (flexible but weak)

7, 3, 2: Thrill of Possibility (less all in version of Cathartic Reunion)

7, 3, 4: Bitter Reunion (more flexible vers. of Thrill)

7, 5, 8: Collective Brutality (most flexible 2 cmc discard outlet in BRG)

6, 3, 4: Faithless Salvaging (slow, weak, only generates CA in late game)

5, 6, 5: Territorial Kavu (even slower because requires attack trigger)

4, 7, 7: Seasoned Pyromancer (both powerful and flexible, can generate bodies or CA)

3, 7, 8: Liliana of the Veil (powerful and flexible, threat + removal + discard)

2, 8, 8: Fable of the Mirror-Breaker  Flip (slowest 3 cmc option, tons of grind power + flexibility)

Additional notes:

zapyourtumor on Murky Waters

3 weeks ago

Card Suggestions Show


I think the main decision you have to make with this deck is whether you want it to be a true control deck or a tempo deck. A true control deck would try to trade one for one and build card advantage before dropping a threat like Murktide or Jace or simply winning with Snappy beatdown. A tempo deck on the other hand would try to turbo out a quick Murktide and then protect that threat.

Mixing control and tempo is nothing new, and it sometimes works quite well. But because a lot of the cards from each type of deck don't necessarily go well together, you can sometimes end up in an awkward situation.

Here, you definitely have a mix of both types (which, I'd like to emphasize, is not necessarily bad). Archmage's Charm, Counterspell, Cryptic Command, Snapcaster Mage, Devastation Tide and Jace, the Mind Sculptor are all heavily control-flavored cards in your deck. They all either break even or generate card advantage, or massively stall out the game.

On the other hand, Force of Negation, Otherworldly Gaze, Thought Scour, Spell Pierce, and Subtlety are all tempo-flavored cards.

The problem with this combination in this deck is that half of your cards aim to turbo out a Murktide Regent as fast as possible with Otherworldly Gaze and Thought Scour and then protect it in the short term with cheap spells like Dismember, Force of Negation, Subtlety, and Spell Pierce. The main problems with these cards is that they are pretty terrible topdecks late game. Scour isn't too bad because it cantrips, but topdecking a Gaze when you really needed a counterspell or card advantage engine or a Murktide would probably feel terrible. And all the control-type cards aim to reach that stage of the game.

One example of a problem that arises when you try and combine these two archetypes is in the manabase. Tempo decks typically don't need many lands; depending on the deck's mana curve, we are generally looking at 19-20 lands, and occasionally even 18 or less. On the other hand, control decks almost always want at least 22-23 lands, sometimes up to 24-26 lands in order to reliably play their more expensive spells on curve like Archmage's Charm, Cryptic Command and Snapcaster Mage, and to also always have mana held up during their opponents turn for a reactive spell.

Of course, many cards fit very flexibly into both tempo and control decks, for example Counterspell is just so strong it works in both, while Consider being a cheap cantrip also fits into both types. So in my opinion one of the most important decisions you should make, if you want to make the deck more cohesive and just function smoother as a whole, is whether you want to lean more towards tempo or control.

Quick disclaimer: I think it is definitely possible to make the deck more competitive while keeping both tempo and control aspects; however you should probably then trim both the very slow control-leaning cards (Cryptic Command, Devastation Tide, Jace, the Mind Sculptor), and the cheap tempo-leaning cards (Otherworldly Gaze, Thought Scour, Force of Negation) and replace them with cards more towards the middle ground. The rest of the cards, like Archmage's Charm, Subtlety, Force of Negation, Spell Pierce, Dismember, and of course Murktide Regent are all flexible enough that they can slot into both types of decks.


The second important decision to make is what secondary color, if any, you want for your deck in order to complement the primary color (blue). The main issue with mono blue control is that you have very few ways to deal with resolved permanents, which is why most players typically splash white or black (or occasionally red). Blue only has access to bounce spells, which are decent in tempo decks but generally bad in control decks because they are card disadvantage (and also terrible late).

Here, I see you kind of "splashed" black, but your only maindeck spell with black pips uses phyrexian mana anyways, while the only black spell in your sideboard can be casted with only blue mana. In my opinion, since you already have black lands, I would commit fully to a UB manabase by including a few more fetches (U fetches since that's your main color) because it gives you access to a lot of strong options:

Drown in the Loch is a really good spell doubling as both removal and countermagic at only 2 cmc, and only gets stronger as the game goes on. Fatal Push is another great removal spell which is generally stronger than Dismember, although it needs at least around 7 fetches to show its full potential. You can also run discard like Inquisition of Kozilek, although that is more tempo/midrange-esque so it may not be a great fit for this deck. Black also gives you an actual boardwipe in the form of Damnation, which is definitely a lot stronger than something like Devastation Tide since it gets rid of the creatures permanently and indirectly generates CA by trading with multiple enemy creature cards. It also doesn't hit Jace. If you don't think you need it in the mainboard, it can be a great sideboard inclusion. Lastly you have access to some sideboard options like Unmoored Ego.

If all of the blue pip spells like Counterspell and Archmage's Charm have you worried about mana fixing issues, you can run the filter land Sunken Ruins which is great in these types of decks to ensure you can cast both BB and UUU spells.


Those two main points aside, I have a few other card suggestions I think could work well here, some of which lean more control and some which lean more tempo.

Ledger Shredder is a great card which leans a bit more towards tempo but unlike Gaze/Thought Scour it helps turbo out a Murktide while also growing into a significant threat itself.

Aether Gust and Mystical Dispute are decent color-specific sideboard cards.

Remand is a tempo-leaning card that is generally not great in pure control lists, but could be good here if you decide to stick to the turbo murktide strategy.

Spreading Seas is probably the best sideboard option mono-blue has against Urza's Saga.

Memory Deluge has a bit of antisynergy with Murktide, but a very good digging spell if you decide to go towards control.

Orvar, the All-Form is another great sideboard card which instantly turns the tables on any Creativity player thinking they auto won the game after cheating out an early Archon of Cruelty.


If you made it this far, thanks for reading all of my comments. I like the deck and I'm excited to see where you can take it in the future. Happy brewing!

legendofa on Dead Metal

2 months ago

keizerbuns If you want a progress update, BRO doesn't add as much as I hoped, mostly adding reanimator payoff options. I have the actual construction going on in a private deck copy, so it's not visible here, but my current thoughts are to add Unmarked Grave (which can find artifacts); try mainboard noncreature artifacts like Kaldra Compleat, Possessed Portal, and Portal to Phyrexia; evaluate and trim down the payoffs; and change the early game to use Treasure. Reliability and speed are top priorities right now, but it keeps feeling like a weaker version of Persist -> Archon of Cruelty.

If you have any further thoughts, I'd appreciate the help!

wallisface on Elder Dragon Conduit

2 months ago

Some thoughts:

  • Borborygmos Enraged and Inferno Titan both feel like really suboptimal creatures to cheat out when stuff like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Archon of Cruelty exist. In and case, you still have ~50% odds of just finding another Arbor Elf, which is pretty disastrous odds.

  • Any deck running Power Conduit really wants to be playing Urza's Saga. It’s super hard to justify Conduit without it.

  • Your deck feels like its trying to do too many things at once, and this will likely water down both your plans to be a lot weaker than they need to be. I’d suggest picking one strategy and sticking to it, instead of trying to fit two distinctly-different (and non-complementary) archetypes into one deck.

Balaam__ on Sultai The Returning

3 months ago

Fair enough. There are still ways to speed up Reanimation prior to Turn 4 though, and inexpensive ways at that. Maybe a Blood Pet into a Tortured Existence would be an engine to consider, allowing you to dump something massive in the graveyard very early on. I still advocate the value of Dark Ritual since that could conceivably get Archon of Cruelty into play Turn 3 or possibly Turn 1 if you chain rituals.

Play third Swamp ->Dark Ritual ->Blood Pet ->Sacrifice for ->Tortured Existence ->Discard Archon of Cruelty for Blood Pet ->Dread Return

wallisface on Temporary graveyard return?

3 months ago

One thing worth noting - This all feels like a lot of steps you're trying to jump through for a 3/3 flyer, especially as Persist could get any number of stronger things, like Serra's Emissary or Archon of Cruelty - or even just Thragtusk.

Wickked on Henzie's true power

4 months ago

I really like the deck. It looks very similar to mine. My first thought is that you have a bunch of lands that come in tapped. A bunch of the dual lands are relatively cheap these days. I like to use the Shock, Pain, Filter, Battlebond, Check, and Slow lands. They come out untapped and can tap for 2 colors. Lands are always a great investment for your collection, they make your deck run allot smoother and once u have them you can use them in whatever deck of those colors. There are a couple of creatures I would also suggest if your looking to upgrade Pathbreaker Ibex can overrun your opponents defenses, Archon of Cruelty is a great blitz target as well as huge threat if left on the field to swing a couple times, Vindictive Lich is an amazing card in this deck in so many ways. The deck looks like a buncha fun as is, and I'm happy to see people brewing with Henzie's unique playstyle. Heres a link to my deck so you can give me some critiques. Let me know what you think of my suggestions.


Gangsta's Paradise - Henzie "Toolbox" Torre

Commander / EDH Wickked

SCORE: 7 | 13 COMMENTS | 670 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER


SufferFromEDHD on Gangsta's Paradise - Henzie "Toolbox" Torre

4 months ago

High Market and/or Phyrexian Tower more sac effects.

Volrath's Stronghold recursion.

Deathrite Shaman quality mana dork.

Archon of Cruelty and Rune-Scarred Demon are quality etb.

Scythe Specter big effect.

Sneak Attack Henzie #2

I your deck. I'm gonna dig thru my collection and build one of my own.

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