Mortlocke Real Life Sliver Overlord -

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After reading your deck description I think it's a safe bet to say it's been awhile since you've last played. The "tuck" rule for commanders has changed - If your commander is changing zones you have the option to place them in the command zone. Here's the long winded version from wizards:

"2015 was an oddly quiet year for the format—there were no banning or unbannings—except for one tiny little feature: "tucking" commanders no longer works.

"The tuck rule" was the way commanders used to work with cards like Spell Crumple and Oblation. The TL;DR is that if a commander would go to any non-battlefield zone from any other zone, its owner may instead return it to the command zone. Locking away someone's commander in their library isn't a reasonable plan anymore." - Source

+1 from me - for Phyrexia. I do enjoy me some Skittles action as well.

"Mana Drain in - Counterflux out Vampiric Tutor in - Diabolic Intent out"

I think those are solid changes, the only reservation I have is that Counterflux is virtually uncounterable - but Mana Drain grants ramp and denies a player a spell, which is more useful in my opinion. Vampiric Tutor is leagues better than Diabolic Intent in this context, so I think that's just a solid upgrade.

When it comes to what cards I wish to include in my decks I always ask myself - how do I want to interact with my opponents when playing this deck? Do I want to be able to parley more often than not? Or am I just the Archenemy? Those questions usually help guide me when I feel like I can't make a decision. Congratulations on getting to open not one, but two boxes of Commander Legends! As well as getting some really awesome pulls. I definitely recommend keeping the Jeweled Lotus (unless it's foil - sell it and get another box!) for down the road when you select a mono-colored or large CMC commander.

Also, what are your thoughts on Jeweled Lotus? And its possible inclusion in the deck?

Hey GreenHamma, it's been sometime since i've visited your page and I do like the new (to me) direction of your deck - very exciting. From my understanding of your primer your deck functions by flooding the field with Shadowborn Apostles using Thrumming Stone, tutoring for demons, and just overwhelming opponents with value. Have you considered using Tendrils of Agony? Before you think it - all cards "played" with Thrumming Stone are actually cast - consider the rules text:

"702.59. Ripple - 702.59a Ripple is a triggered ability that functions only while the card with ripple is on the stack. “Ripple N” means “When you cast this spell, you may reveal the top N cards of your library, or, if there are fewer than N cards in your library, you may reveal all the cards in your library. If you reveal cards from your library this way, you may cast any of those cards with the same name as this spell without paying their mana costs, then put all revealed cards not cast this way on the bottom of your library in any order.”"

Given that there is a "98% chance you will play out all (33) shadowborn apostles in the deck" (your words, not mine) casting Tendrils of Agony seems like it would be a valid kill spell for at least one opponent.

"What do you think so far? Also what would i have to do to get this page fixed up like some other primers?" Here are some resources I used in the past to get my deck description looking right:

• Epochalyptik's Do you want to write a Primer? - this is what i'd consider the "go to" guide on how to write a fully fleshed out primer.

• FancyTuesday's CSS Styling on Tapped out - Beginner User Page - this is only an optional thing, and if you just want to go into the weeds with deck page customization. The fact that trusted users are allowed to to use CSS is a big deal.

Omniscience_is_life - I will own the fact that i'm a butt for plugging my decklist so much. Honestly, I was having a bit of an inside joke with myself because i'm crazy. But uh, hey - at least we both agree on Jeweled Lotus for the most part.

oh, and before I forget...

Omniscience_is_life - your T1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope is highly improbable - even with Jeweled Lotus. She, much like Zacama in my awesome decklist The Predator of Predators suffer from the issue of having a very high CMC - relegating them to primarily mid to late game apperances. Jeweled Lotus does help get those commanders out sooner...but like I said - it has to be Christmas for said commanders to get out early game, let alone T1.

Now, when you said "What I was going at--with the part of my statement that you quoted--was that you say in your original argument "nobody at that table uses any form of interaction in their decks", as well as saying that "combos that powerful are rarely seen in a game". You missed something VERY important here: Context. If you re-read what I said in regards to "Nobody at that table uses any form of interaction..." the paragraph starts with "In reference to the comic". As in, everyone in the playgroup IN THE COMIC likely don't have decks that run alot of interaction. Swords to Plowshares, Pongify, etc - all my examples are not "elite interaction" (as you put it) - they're common. Not a single one of those spells is over 3USD, and all see regular play in EDH. Now, the other part that you got confused with - "combos that powerful are rarely seen in a game" that is in reference to meta - specifically cEDH - NOT the playgroup in the comic. I was saying that a T1 Urza + Mana Crypt + Winter Orb - enabled by Jeweled Lotus would likely be relegated only to cEDH play. Why? Because that combo costs roughly 160USD and that's not including the Lotus - an extra 150USD (at the moment). So, a T1 Urza lock out would be about 300USD more or less. Besides the price point - the meta would also have to tuned to expect that kind of play. Look. Basically what i'm trying to say here is that you took two separate statements I made completely out of context and got confused when making your argument.

Path of Exile, hah. videogames. I meant Path to Exile.

Omniscience_is_life, your example of a T1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope is one of the reasons for a Jeweled Lotus as highlighted by I_Want_To_PlayAllTheDecks. Also, if on T1 you - play a land, Mana Crypt, Lotus Petal, Sol Ring AND a Jeweled Lotus then sweet holy tacos Christmas came early for you. But uh, Avacyn can totally take a Path of Exile to the face - which I do run in my decklist that will also be running Jeweled Lotus - The Predator of Predators (Leave an upvote if you feel so inclined).

In all seriousness, just having a T1 Avacyn in a ridiculously rare Christmas scenario doesn't outright end the game. Onward to your second point - "I would also disagree on two fronts with your assessment of whaat happens when the lotus is drawn: you seem to say simultaneously that everyone will have good enough decks to have interaction, but no one will have good enough decks to assemble a powerful combo with the additional Lotus-mana/have countermagic ready for said interaction." I don't know what you're getting at - because those weren't my words, nor my intention. I'll just tl;dr - The player with the Jeweled Lotus on T1 becomes the Archenemy and will be dealt with by the table. This Dark foreboding end of all magic power creep narrative is simply over-hype and utter poppycock; in other words - complete nonsense.

From my own assessment, the general sentiment surrounding Jeweled Lotus is summarized in the following Cardboard Crack comic:

Excellent comic by the way. But I think it really misses the mark here - when a player gets ahead too early, they become the Archenemy - the player who is assessed as being the biggest threat early on (between turns 1 - 3) in a game and gets focused on by the table. Instead of a game of 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 - it becomes 1 v 3. Speaking from experience, said Archenemy player gets their entire board state dismantled by ALL of their opponents and are usually left with the least amount of resources for the rest of the game - if any.

In reference to the comic, if ALL opponents have no response and concede on turn 1 then I think that's indicative a larger issue within that playgroup: nobody at that table uses any form of interaction in their decks (e.g. Swords to Plowshares, Beast Within (as in T1 Mana Crypt + Forest), Pongify, Lightning Bolt...the list goes on). I would even go on to say that everyone in that group plays like Timmy/Tammy (nothing is wrong with that - but it makes games very narrow and insular - basically no one interacts with another's boardstate). Alternatively, if that was a game of cEDH then that's how the game is supposed to be played - but with less bad feels. Regardless, the point i'm trying to make is that - in an average game of Commander, a table should reasonably be able to react and control a turn 1 or 2 Commander in the vast majority of games (i'm saying 80% - 90% of the time the archenemy gets controlled by the table). In those rare instances when a table is literally locked out - e.g. T1 Urza + Mana Crypt + Winter Orb - then that's simply a done game. Again, combos that powerful are rarely seen in a game.

Now, there are decks I think this card can do well in - decks where the Commander is a really high CMC. Yes, take this as shameless advertising, but i'm considering this card for one of my own decks:

The Predator of Predators

Commander / EDH Mortlocke

SCORE: 192 | 93 COMMENTS | 20658 VIEWS | IN 78 FOLDERS

Zacama, Primal Calamity helms this deck, and she is a CMC (Naya) commander. For decks that have those extra THICC commanders with the high CMCs, Jeweled Lotus could make all the difference at any point of the game. In Zacama's case, she is considered a "kill on sight" Commander - a creature that can be highly disruptive to any boardstate at any point of the game." She will get removed, regardless of when she is played. But, for those situations where I need to get her out late game Jeweled Lotus could easily be the difference maker. OR, I could have an explosive start and play Zacama 3 turns earlier.

Ultimately, I think the Magic Community's reaction is far too dramatic thinking that this one card is going to stop a game before it starts. No. It will not. It will simply put a single player in the position of Archenemy early on, or help a player get a Commander back into the game after it has been removed a few times.

Side note - I do agree with the notion that the card is entirely designed to help sell packs. Serving mostly as something exciting for people to pull. I think it's a good idea. Is it worth the $150 - $100 pre-order price? Hell No. It's a decent $20 (non-foil) card in the making that goes in only a handful of commander decks.

Additional side note: For those interested in my Zacama build The Predator of Predators, I plan on swapping Jeweled Lotus in for Talisman of Impulse. Additional Additionally, I will swap in Court of Bounty for Rishkar's Expertise. I really enjoy Monarch, and I think that card is a perfect fit for the deck. Please let me know your thoughts about the deck and uh...feed Zacama your upvotes.

Sammaster81, I know it's not warranted but i'll give my two cents on your question regarding Three Visits - this card is vastly superior to Farseek in that the card you ramp for comes into play untapped. In cEDH having access to as many resources as possible on a turn is paramount. Sure, being able to potentially get any non-basic land that has a basic land type is neat, but the con simply doesn't outweigh the marginal boon of getting a non-forest dual land.

On an unrelated note, stubear89 - the mana crypt you have listed as foil...doesn't come in foil. I hate to be that guy, but it just bothers me lol. Also, out of curiosity, why are you including Acidic and Diffusion Sliver? Personally, I see them as not very efficient...or even good in EDH. for a 2/2 that requires a sacrifice to deal a paltry 2 damage (on top of having to pay an additional to activate) is ridiculously steep for an ability that is only useful in a handful of scenarios. Then, there's the fact that Diffusion Sliver is not a hard answer (it's more like a polite request not to) for targeted removal. What's your reasoning for including these aforementioned cards?