Control/Owner, Praetor's Grasp + Control Magic

Asked by Eboksba 5 years ago

So an absolutely ridiculous situation arose while theory crafting a deck and here it is: EDH: Player A has Sheoldred, Whispering One as commander, the other Sygg, River Cutthroat. Sheoldred somehow manages to tuck Sygg away. She then casts Praetor's Grasp and exiles Sygg.

He's exiled, meaning he returns to the command zone. Is Sygg still playable by Sheoldred, presuming it's still her turn?

Sheoldred realizes her mistake and instead picks something else, another creature. The creature is exiled. She then casts the creature, and the creature is put into play. Sygg proceeds to casts Control Magic on the creature on his turn. The next turn, Sheoldred destroys the enchantment.

...who does this creature belong to? And would the same happen occur if the same thing happens if Sygg, River Cutthroat is release from control? Who do they go to?

smash10101 says... #1

Situation 1: Sheoldred player can cast Sygg because the replacement effect that moves Sygg to the command zone still lets Praetor's Grasp track it. If Sygg gets cast by it's owner though, Praetor's Grasp loses track of it.

Situation 2: Sheoldred player controls the creature, then Control Magic happens, so Sygg player gains control of it. When Control Magic leaves play, the creature goes back to whoever was controlling it previously, in this case, Sheoldred play.

October 15, 2014 5:48 p.m.

Eboksba says... #2

Further clarity question: As in the case of Ritual of the Machine , Empress Galina , or other similar control cards stacked onto each other, what is the general order? We have Galina which is a conditionless control, we have ritual of the machine, which is a conditionless control, and we have control magic, which is a condition based on the card being in play. Is this correct?

October 15, 2014 5:52 p.m.

Eboksba says... #3

*Rather, if the order of control was stacked thusly,

Ritual of the Machine after Empress Galina , Galina would win.

However, Empress Galina AFTER Control Magic , what would happen? You have the enchantment making a continuous effect. Do they overwrite or is Galina out of luck?

October 15, 2014 5:55 p.m.

smash10101 says... #4

We apply the control changing effects in timestamp order, so the last one to resolve wins.

October 15, 2014 5:59 p.m.

FancyTuesday says... Accepted answer #5

In the first case Sygg, River Cutthroat is not playable by the Sheoldred player for a couple reasons. First of all, the card is no longer in the exile zone, it's in the Command zone and thus no longer "exiled" as required by Praetor's Grasp .

400.1 A zone is a place where objects can be during a game. There are normally seven zones: library, hand, battlefield, graveyard, stack, exile, and command. Some older cards also use the ante zone. Each player has his or her own library, hand, and graveyard. The other zones are shared by all players.

903.13 If a card is put into the exile zone face down from anywhere, and a player is allowed to look at that card in exile, the player must immediately do so. If its a commander owned by another player, the player that looked at it turns it face up and puts it into the command zone.

Secondly, Praetor's Grasp has a linked ability that explicitly references the object exiled by that ability. If an object in exile is exiled again it becomes a new object and Praetor's Grasp will "loose track" of it.

406.5 An object may have one ability printed on it that causes one or more cards to be exiled, and another ability that refers either to the exiled cards or to cards exiled with [this object]. These abilities are linked: the second refers only to cards that have been exiled due to the first. See rule 607, Linked Abilities.

406.6 If an object in the exile zone becomes exiled, it doesn't change zones, but it becomes a new object that has just been exiled.

In the 2nd case, the Sheoldred Player regains control because the Praetor's Grasp control effect still exists. Mind Control exists in the same layer and the more recent timestamp overrides Praetor's Grasp while it's in effect, but once Mind Control is gone all that remains in that layer is the Praetor's Grasp effect.

See: for further details.

October 15, 2014 6:08 p.m.

Eboksba says... #6

Switched answer. What did that one card's flavor text say again?

October 15, 2014 6:15 p.m.

This discussion has been closed