Counter target activated ability, triggered ability, or legendary spell.
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|Core Set 2020 (M20)||Rare|
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Tale's End Discussion
1 week ago
Stifle and Tale's End are both cards I run in a lot of my blue midrange-control-stax builds. Almost always Stifle , it is along side Swan Song , Spell Pierce , and Flusterstorm in that regard for stopping things like Hulk triggers and fetchlands, Tale's End having the useful, "normal" counterspell tech for cards like commanders and random cards like a Sai in an Urza deck or a utility walker like Narset in many blue lists these days.
While I recommend Stifle most, I could see Trickbind and Tale's End being more useful with the fish builds taking the metagame by storm.
4 weeks ago
I like the deck. I have a question about a couple of card choices, however.
I see you have two counterspells, Force of Negation , and Spellstutter Sprite . In a counter-war, you will most likely not have sufficient ammo to get your spells through. At most, you'd have one of them in hand, two would be highly unlikely. If playing against one opponent with Blue that runs counterspells, you'll be in a bind, having to wait for him to tap out and hope he's not running either Force of Will , Force of Negation , or Pact of Negation with mana available to pay for the cost. Heck, a well timed Foil could also set you back.
Would you consider running other cards to those two? Or would you consider running more counter magic?
With my group, it's understood that if you run counter magic, you run the gamut of them; or you run nothing at all, especially with control colors of Esper. It's almost like it's required with this color combination (ironically, white also has Lapse of Certainty and Mana Tithe , so it can join the counter war while black runs Withering Boon which has surprised many a table).
If you're willing to add a more robust counterspell suite, I would consider removing your Auras in lieu for cards like Counterspell , Arcane Denial , Mana Drain , Flusterstorm , Force of Will , Narset's Reversal , Disallow , Pact of Negation , Swan Song , and if you run into many triggered or activated abilities in your meta, Stifle , Disallow , Trickbind , or Tale's End .
If you're not willing to add additional counters for protecting your spells, I would recommend getting more anthem/banner effects over Aura effects, like Archetype of Courage , Archetype of Finality , Archetype of Imagination , Bident of Thassa , Day of the Dragons (this flashed in at end of turn with a large fairy board could do some damage), Dictate of Heliod , Light of Sanction + Pestilence can wipe the board from other's creatures, leaving you an open field to swing and win; True Conviction , at triple White is too much, but you could consider it. You could also consider running Faerie Formation as a creature with a Training Grounds and a Valor in Akros on the field for a sudden card draw + creature pump and steal a win out of no where.
Heck, Path of Bravery won't net you much if you're only attacking with 1 creature every turn, but drop that and turn everything sideways when you have 20+ tokens, that's 20+ life right there on the swing. You don't have to even connect to gain the life. Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant can prevent damage to your creatures (which will help as well if you have a pestilence on the field). Drop a Karmic Justice as well, to give your enchantments a reason to not be destroyed. Consider running a Solitary Confinement if you have sufficient draw as well.
Simple suggestions, but otherwise, deck looks pretty sweet.
1 month ago
oucho2pierce thanks for the input! I have been wanting to test out growth spiral but haven’t been able to pick up some copies yet but will test them as soon as I get the chance! Tale's End allows me to play a T3 lotus field and counter the ability, while the extra cost of Disallow prevents that. Referring to your earlier comment, I know I can’t cast Sundering for the reason you stated in a previous comment. Wishclaw Talisman has been an all star both pre combo and mid combo; finding exactly what I need when I need it. I usually don’t care what the opp tutors because I’m likely comboing off the turn after and they know it’s a risky move to give me my talisman back.
1 month ago
Also, I think the before mentioned Growth Spiral would be really great at speeding this deck up. It allows a turn 2 Lotus Field following a turn 3 Thespian's Stage or Lotus Field with Tale's End . It may be worth looking into that further. Also, is Tale's End better than Disallow ? It both can be cast off of a Lotus Field but tales end is a super narrow counterspell outside of that interaction. Maybe you basically can never hold up 3 mana, but it was just a thought I had.
1 month ago
Hello, just snooping. But, how exactly does Tale's End do anything about Frogify ? Frogify doesnt put anything on the stack to counter when it comes into play. "I find Tale's End especially relevant as it helps me get rid of annoying ETB enchantement cards such as Frogify"
2 months ago
Of note: the Mana Lotus Vale produces can be used to pay for Tale's End so you can get it out turn 1, also if you wanted to do that more consistently there are additional copies in Repudiate / Replicate and Disallow .
2 months ago
The problem with planeswalkers such as the ones you mentioned is that I can only use their abilities once on the combo turn, and the closest one to being playable would be Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner because of its low CMC.
Growth Spiral is an interesting two-drop. The main reason that I didn't include it is that I don't think I would have 4 lands by turn 3 unless I use a tutor effect on the previous turn. My two-drops are already overloaded with Wishclaw Talisman , Shimmer of Possibility , and Sylvan Scrying , so I would probably chop a couple of those off to make room for Growth Spiral .
Shreds of Sanity had me for a second there, but then I saw that the only instants I play are Opt and Tale's End . Recurring Opt isn't much, and recurring Tale's End does absolutely nothing. Instead, I have been testing Mission Briefing which is like Shreds but surveils and costs one less mana.
Underworld Connections might not be a bad idea, but the problem is that my primary untap spells untap two lands, and I'm comboing with two Lotus Field s. I don't know if I would enchant a Lotus Field just to draw a card and maybe have that small chance of drawing an untap spell, or enchant a random extra land to untap with Finale when that happens, and in that case I would only draw 1 extra card for 1 life and technically 1 mana which is what Finale does anyway. Although not a bad idea, but I don't really think it's necessary for what the combo needs.
Zacama, Primal Calamity is cute, but the problem is that Lotus Field taps for one color, and Zacama requires three. Although not impossible, I would rather produce blue mana first to use untap spells then I would be left with tapping two Fields for two different It would be nice to test out some extra turn spells in the deck. Although I can't use Karn's Temporal Sundering because it's a "legendary sorcery" and I have no legendary things in the deck, I would probably resort to Nexus of Fate due to its repeatable use. Thanks for the input!