|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masters 25 (A25)||None|
|Masterpiece Series: Kaladesh Inventions (MPS)||Mythic Rare|
|Eighth Edition (8ED)||Rare|
|Seventh Edition (7ED)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Creatures with power greater than the number of cards in your hand can't attack.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
Ensnaring Bridge Discussion
21 hours ago
Well, Token Generation is prime here as I have no other defenses; though some Walkers don't need/always need Ultimates to be good. For Stax Pieces, I suppose I should remove Ensnaring Bridge , Meekstone , but not Humility + Ethereal Absolution ? (The Last Two are a combo together; thus are mandatory.)
If it's all over the place, in my eyes, I need to keep the latter two as a result. The rest of the Walker ideas should be kept as a result.
Is this alright w/ you?
2 days ago
Rabid_Wombat - Modern Mill is a burn deck, you're just burning their library, rather than their life total. Let's look at how a typical mill game plays out, and you will see how, despite not attacking life, it is an aggro playstyle, rather than control:
Turn 1: Land + Hedron Crab Turn 2: Land + Glimpse the Unthinkable + Hedron Crab trigger for 13 mill for turn. Turn 3: Land + Fraying Sanity + Hedron Crab trigger + Fraying Sanity trigger for 6 mill for turn; 19 total. Turn 4: Land + Breaking + Mind Sculpt + Hedron Crab trigger + Fraying Sanity trigger for 36 mill for turn, 55 mill total, and a victory on next draw once you factor in an opening hand.
To pull off this turn 4 win consistently, your deck is going to be running 4x Hedron crabs, 4x Fraying Sanity ; 20x "burn" spells ( Glimpse the Unthinkable , Mind Funeral , Breaking / Entering ; Mind Sculpt and Archive Trap ), 8x draw spells ( Thought Scour and Visions of Beyond ). That leaves you 20 coloured lands and 4x Field of Ruin (to force Archive Trap ), making a round 60.
Persistent Petitioners is worse than every single card on that list. There is no room for four copies, let alone more. As such, it will make no difference in mill's Modern viability.
But wait, you say, what about mill as a control deck?
Control's goal is to attack valuable resources, leaving you in a better position for victory. The library, which mill attacks, is not a valuable resource--until actualized, those are just hidden cards with no intrinsic value. There is little synergy between these two strategies, leaving mill-control a vastly inferior option to mill-burn. 60 "life" is a lot more than 20, making it far more likely that you run out of control resources before your opponent runs out of cards.
Even in such a deck, you would still not want Persistent Petitioners , as it would detract from your absolutely necessary control cards and high-value mill cards.
With regards to Ensnaring Bridge , Darkshadow327 accurately surmised my point. The only benefit Petitioners provide to mill is a mid-sized blocker. Ensnaring Bridge is far better against aggressive creature-based decks, making it superior to Petitioners for defence.
Just like in a burn deck, you do not want to mainboard Ensnaring Bridge --it's only really useful against hyper aggressive decks that risk overwhelming you before you can finish milling. Against slower decks, those three mana would be better spent going for a faster kill.
The reason mill doesn't shine in Modern is because, as much as it pains me to say this, it is a bad archetype. It's burn, but you're attacking a 60-life resource, rather than a 20-life one. Further, your "burn" spells can only attack an opponent, whereas Lightning Bolt can take out an enemy in a pinch. With regards to your point about mitigation of burn vs. mitigation of mill, many decks do not run lifegain, and a good burn deck
Darkshadow327 - one correction to your post, you can mill for 12 the turn you've fielded four copies of Petitioners. As there is no symbol in the mill-12 ability, summoning sickness does not apply.
2 days ago
He's just comparing the fact that having to use multiple cards just to deal damage/mill is very inefficient in modern. There are just more effective ways to mill. Without ramp (which is very likely, you are in dimir after all) the soonest you can get 4 petitioners is turn 4, and that is with perfect draws/a deck stuffed full of them. The soonest you can mill for 12 is turn 5, plus then you have to do that 2 or 3 more times. This puts winning on turn 7-8, slow for modern. By the time those turns come around you have likely lost or don't have enough petitioners to mill because your opponents deal with them. Being a creature the are vulnerable to removal such as Fatal Push , and tempo. Not to mention they are within Lightning Strike range.
The comparison to Ensnaring Bridge is the fact mill doesn't really put a lot of creatures out, so bridge prevents opponents from attacking you.
Besides pauper is a very different format than modern.
Long story short: They may see play in casual modern, but no competitive play. The deck would just be too weak.
2 days ago
cdkime I don't get the mill/burn comparison...two totally different play styles and deck builds.
Mill is more control and harder to run than Burn which is just aggro. Maybe you got mixed up and were thinking of Stompy?
Players have more options to defend against Burn through Life Gain whereas their are fewer ways to defend against mill. And mill has Counterspells and card draw galore!
Ensnaring Bridge is not a wincon so it is not better at all and has zero relevance- especially when you refer to it in the SB...c'mon man.
Persistent Petitioners gives mill a new way to help deck an opponent, while at the same time offering defence against aggro - which is huge. No mill deck has ever really shone in Modern...that is going to change.
Not to mention that Persistent Petitioners will Dominate Pauper -it will be banned in that format asap.
If anyone wants to speculate- buy a few dozen at 25/50 cents each and flip them next month for 5 bucks a piece :D
2 days ago
Rabid_Wombat - I disagree that Persistent Petitioners will make a splash in Modern. A well-tuned mill deck can already end the game on turn 3-4 through powerful mill cards like Glimpse the Unthinkable . Persistent Petitioners might shore up one of mill’s weaknesses, lack of board presence, but a sideboarded Ensnaring Bridge is better than a large number of mediocre blockers.
I always like to compare mill to burn since both play similar to one another.
Would a 1/3 that read “you can have as many copies; tap four of these to deal 5 damage to target player” make a big splash? I think not. It is vastly less efficient than Lightning Bolt and friends, and sideboarding Ensnaring Bridge
gb on 12 Moon Frenzy
2 days ago
5 days ago
Im a big fan of mid-rangey mono color tribal decks, but here is some advice if you want to make it work more consistently and be generally more successful even in a very casual table top setting:
Curve in modern is king!
If you look at the curve for your deck and the average CMC in general, its very very high and its going to take several turns to even start getting your big angels out. This is an issue because at most you will be playing one threat per turn, and by turn 4 your control opponent will have more than enough mana and cards to stop them from hitting the board, your aggro opponents will have killed you, and faster mid range decks will have set up the board to a point where you are behind the rest of the game.
Solutions: Splash green for ramp ( Llanowar Elves , Birds of Paradise ) or find more cards in the 1 and 3 slots that are defensive. Current build is desperate for Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx . Defensive/tax/solid cards in white you can use would be stuff like Leonin Arbiter , Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , Thraben Inspector , Doomed Traveler , Student of Warfare .
Interacting with your opponent is key!
Currently the only removal you have in your deck is Ixalan's Binding , which costs a large amount of mana considering it only removes a single target. Lucky for us we are playing white and have alot of great removal. Path to Exile , Fragmentize , Oblivion Ring . If I was playing this deck, my biggest fear would be my opponent would play something like Ensnaring Bridge because i'd only have a 32% chance of drawing Ixalan's Binding by turn 5 and thats spooky!
Hope this helps. tl;dr is I'd lower the average CMC, add more removal and ways to interact with the opponent
6 days ago
Lodestone Golem could be worth playing in the deck. With all the 0 mana artifacts, Whir of Invention seems like it has a place here; it can search for Master Transmuter and you could fit in an Ensnaring Bridge to fetch out when you need it. Have you ever considered Platinum Emperion? It's great when you're behind and about to die and you can give it shroud with Lightning Greaves to make yourself nearly unkillable. I'd say it's better than Filigree Angel in most cases since it's harder to remove with burn.