As an additional cost to play Withering Boon, pay 3 life.
Counter target creature spell.
|Want (2)||shikeiraerio , Tocqy1|
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Withering Boon Discussion
3 days ago
1 week ago
In a word: spicy.
Consider swapping a swamp for an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to maximize your Cabal Coffers, and adding in Geier Reach Sanitarium would play into your discard theme. I would replace Fabled Passage with it.
While your commander also give your cards, I would still get up to ten sources of card draw. For a repeatable discard engine, I would suggest Phyrexian Arena, Sign in Blood, Read the Bones, and Night's Whisper and the king of all black card draw, Necropotence. Necro might not play nice with your own discard, but I don't think you rely on reanimation enough for it to be an issue.
I really like this deck and hope this helps! +1
2 weeks ago
I used to run Xiahou dun, upgraded to Sidisi. Respect for sticking with the Dun.
Your land count is a little high, especially for your CMC. I run 37 lands with a 3.3ish CMC. Your cmc is much lower with slightly less ramp. You should cut 2-3 lands for more ramp IMO.
Infernal Darkness - Like contamination but it doesnt shut off coffersn or requires continuous sacrifice. Can be used as redundancy to contamination and counterbait against blue.
Replace Cabal stronghold with Volrath's Stronghold - Cabal takes too long to get online, stronghold helps you bypass commander tax or reuse a utility creature. Can even potentially save a creature from grave hate worst comes to worst.
Replace Memorial to the folly with Deserted Temple/Blast Zone - Untapping cabal coffers or having a wipe that can interact with artifacts and enchantments is key. I know you have 2 cards or so that can interact with enchantments, but a a land that doesnt take up a slot and is tutorable through expedition map is definitely worth considering.
Replace Liliana for ramp or Imp's Mischief - Lili doesn't do much on her own. Ramp will help ensure you being able to keep up with green and further your game plan. Imp's mischief counters counterspells, redirects targetted removal/draw/extra turns. Very powerful utility for 2 mana, and unexpected in black. If you like off color cards, do note Withering Boon.
Syphon Mind - Each opponent discard 1, draw 3. Pretty good and at with no lifeloss.
Deliver Unto Evil - Not an entirely serious suggestion, but is one of the few ways to get nonblack cards back from your grave.
Have you considered adding Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth + Sensei's Divining Top? Each piece is good on it's own. Monolith for ramp, rings for commander synergy (adding fetches would help, as well to be good with top) among a few others, top for general utility and digging deeper. Adding all three gives you infinite colorless mana and draws your deck.
What is your meta like - Competitive, commanders/colors played? I might recommend Boseju given all of your sorcerries and instants.
You might want to add a nev disk for good measure in case shit hits the fan. Be sure to lmk what you think of each suggestion. Mono black shenanigans are always fun. +1
1 month ago
In any mono-black deck I always suggest Withering Boon. It's so unexpected and you can cast a kill spell to counter another creature from the yard.
The recent change for Oubliette makes it amazing in EDH. Since it phases out, if you target their commander they can't chose to put it back in the command zone. Locking them out of their commander until its removed or you lose.
As far as finding expensive cards to cut, I guess I'd have to suggest Liliana of the Veil first and foremost. It's incredibly expensive and its not super strong in commander. I get that you don't mind discarding instants and that her minus ability allows you to cast them, but if you're looking to be more budget-friendly I'd suggest cutting that one first.
1 month ago
The subject of this thread revolves around dealing with and counteracting against the commanders: Uril, the Miststalker, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Dragonlord Ojutai, Lazav, Dimir Mastermind, Thrun, the Last Troll as well as commanders that consistently or typically give themselves hexproof through various equipments/auras.
While it may not be the most prevalent strategy these types of commanders can be annoying to deal with. I'd like to create a discussion on what are the best ways to deal with these commanders. Given how niche these commanders can be, running cards that exclusively dedicate themselves to their removal may be detrimental to draw into when playing a game where none of your opponents run them. Therefore cards that can both combat massive hexproof creatures as well as still being useful to have if none of your opponents are playing with big hexproof creatures should be taken into consideration when deciding what is the "best" or "most practical" solution to combating hexproof strategies.
The first cards that come to mind are Arcane Lighthouse, Detection Tower, Bonds of Mortality, Shadowspear and Glaring Spotlight. These cards entirely dedicate themselves to combating hexproof strategies, and while this may be a detriment when used against non-hexproof strategies, these cards do lend themselves some extra utility. Arcane Lighthouse and Detection Tower can be seeded into your manabase so at worst they're just a Wastes however they can be more inefficient in comparison. Given that both are lands, tapping them costs you an extra mana resource effectively making their abilities cost to activate. Not only that, but they have no effect at stripping indestructible which can be a common keyboard which may be used alongside most hexproof strategies. Cards like Bonds of Mortality and Shadowspear cost only one to activate and they can bypass indestructible, however given they're not lands you have to dedicate a nonland slot in your deck to accommodate either of them which means taking out a card that may better synergize with your deck's main strategy in their place. They also lend themselves targets for counter spells and given hexproof decks contain white and/or green, artifact/enchantment removal will pose a high potential risk. This is all not to mention you still need to provide a removal spell in tandem with these cards in order to remove the threat.
Another solution is board wipes. Cards such as Wrath of God, Damnation, Day of Judgment, Supreme Verdict, Blasphemous Act, etc. Mass creature removal is incredibly strong given that its always relevant in most metas making it a highly flexible solution that isn't too narrow to rely upon. It's biggest drawback however is if the massive hexproof creature that needs to be dealt with has indestructible, totem armor or Gift of Immortality. Even a card such as Toxic Deluge can be a risk as you may have to pay a huge amount of life if the creature is incredibly big. Cyclonic Rift is another effective card. One thing to note about boardwipes are they affect the whole table which makes them also more likelier to be countered than by effects that impact a single individual.
A more narrow solution would be through damage prevention effects such as Story Circle, Forcefield, Runed Halo, Rune of Protection: White, etc. Given each card never "targets" they can be used to infinitely "Fog" a problem creature that you can't put up with. These effects are more narrow than boardwipes but broader than hexproof removal. Cards like these still run into problems with artifact/enchantment removal and they don't run enticing side effects such as drawing a card upon entering the battlefield like Bonds of Mortality or giving a creature lifelink and trample like Shadowspear, however you won't need to exhaust your removal spells to keep the large creature(s) either. In more broader metas such as combo, stax and prison, these effects may not be as useful however. More broader variants of these protection cards exist as Ensnaring Bridge, Divine Presence, Peacekeeper and Meekstone though these cards may make multiple opponents unhappy enough to remove them than the more narrower options.
The last effect used to combat large hexproof creatures is sacrifice effects such as: Fleshbag Marauder, Innocent Blood, Vona's Hunger, Liliana's Triumph, Doomfall etc. These effects can bypass not only hexproof but also indestructible, regenerate and totem armor. Their drawback lies in if the player with the large hexproof creature has any other creatures to sacrifice in their place. Because of this caveat this effect isn't too strong unless ran in multiples which can be difficult to commit to in a 100-card format. Instead selective sacrifice effects may be the best way to devote to this solution with cards like: Crackling Doom, Soul Shatter, Slaughter the Strong, Council's Judgment, Renounce the Guilds and Wing Shards. While these cards won't always guarantee the large hexproof creature will be removed, they provide a stronger case than not compared to most traditional sacrifice removal.
Lastly there are counter spells to remove hexproof creatures. While they may be the best all purpose solution they can be rendered ineffective if a Cavern of Souls or some other can not be countered effect is in place. With exception to Withering Boon, the biggest downside to counter spells are they are entirely exclusive to blue meaning other color combinations without blue do not have this option available.
Which method do you rely on to stop massive hexproof creatures? Is there a card or solution set not listed here that you use? If you happen to play EDH decks with big massive hexproof creatures, which effects annoy/counter you the most?
1 month ago
Thanks again Profet93 for the comments, you make some good points, and even if I don't use every suggested card, it's really good to see what other people are having success with, and shine a light on some unusual cards that might fit this unusual commander!
My budget is usually around $2 a card, unless its a card I can swap between decks. Urborg and Torment of Hailfire came from my past decks, or are on loan.
Slaughter Pact is an interesting one. There is juuuuuust enough good nonblack targets in my meta that having 1 card with that clause isn't too bad, but often I use it on a subpar target, just to get a big Toshiro flashback chain started for 0 mana.
Withering Boon is another interesting option. Personally, i'm not a huge fan of the art (which is often a stupid deal breaker for me), although in this case, it's not the reason I don't run it. In my meta, I'd much rather have a 2cmc removal spell. There aren't too many ETB creatures I need to worry about, and having a card that's a dead draw against an already developed board is a dealbreaker. Along with the fact that it's prettyyyy hard to use effectively with Tooshiro flashing it back. I'd have to; have an instant-speed way to kill a creature, have a target to kill, have a good target to counter, and have the mana to do it all at once... and i'd lose 3 life. I'd rather have a removal spell I can easily flash back in response to deaths in combat, or a Sorcery-speed removal spell. If I was up against some good ETD effects, or creature combos, i'd definitely consider adding it. I do love color-pie breaking cards. I'd run Mana Tithe in any white deck just for the giggles.
Using Dark Betrayal looks very very good!... probably too good for me to get away with without it being obvious i'm targeting my meta specifically...
Sudden Spoiling looks like another great one. I might give it a go one day, but there isn't a whole lot of big combat in my meta that this would interact with well. I might keep it in my "back of my mind while playing" list for a while to see how it might play out if I had it in my hand.
I have gotten hold of a Blast Zone, but haven't drawn it in a game yet. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
I'm seeing a few interesting cards in the Zendikar Rising spoilers that may fit into the deck, namely Feed the Swarm (targeted Creature/Enchantment removal), Soul Shatter (powerful Edict effect) and Malakir Rebirth (creature protection stapled to a land). I'm also looking at making a new EDH deck (Feldon), which might mean i'd be able to make some more expensive upgrades, using cards that fit well into both decks. I might end up swapping Whispersilk Cloak for Lightning Greaves and maybe adding in a Worn Powerstone to help me ramp into my expensive creatures!
1 month ago
Thanks for the writeup. Was interested to see the combo potential of Vilis as I just incidentally got a copy of him to throw in one of my decks. I don't have many suggestions fortunately as I am not much of a cEDh player. Maybe Withering Boon or even Deathgrip (Veil of Blossoms? I am sure there are plenty more trouble green cards too).
Sudden Spoiling because sometimes you just need to freeze the stack.
Terrain Generator to dump extra lands to the field.
If you aren't keeping a ton of creatures around then maybe lean in to black's specialty in boardwipes. Toxic Deluge seems like a great choice.
Definitely think the deck could use some more recurssion loops somehow. I don't know of the combos in monoblack but it can't be too hard to break Gray Merchant of Asphodel with something like Necromancy.
Love the list and I will be watching as you tweak it.
1 month ago
Blast Zone - Helps mitigate black's weakness of artifact/enchantment interaction while fitting into the landbase. Cut blighted fen for it (not sure if budget)
Withering Boon - No one expects it, plus it looks cool (not sure if budget)
Shizo, Death's Storehouse - Unblockable (although not budget)
Oubliette - Commander removal that hurts red and black players through new phasing rule. Highly recommended, especially if you face a lot of black in your meta as you say you do (which makes me wonder why you still run slaughter pact)
Extinction Event - Good against all the black in your meta. Not necessary but nice
Nevinyrral's Disk - Cheap way to deal with artifacts and enchantments
Jet Medallion - Ramp, plain and simple, would cut leaden myr despite it being a body, if anything because it's a body I would cut it for this. Plus, this helps you chain multiple spells by making each cost less rather than adding mana. It doesnt fuel artifacts, but its still very powerful
Mind Twist - One of the best discard spells, hands down. It's at random, and while you don't face much blue in the meta, it is counterspell bait at worst, absolutely horrific at best. Do not sleep on this, especially in 1v1.
Card draw is nice, not all of these are needed....
Syphon Mind - Not as good in 1v1, but good in multiplayer
Read the Bones - Scry and draw is very helpful
REPLACE Agent of the Fates with Liliana's Triumph - You use your removal which either could have killed an opposing creature at best. At worst, your removal couldn't have killed an opposing creature so you use this removal on Agent to attempt each opponent to sac a creature of their choice. I suppose with all your removal they don't have many choices, but this seems very, subpar. The deathtouch part might be relevant, but I find you can make better use of this slot. Lili's triumph is cheaper at instant speed without the need of your own removal spell.
Ashling, the Extinguisher - Too much mana to be removal bait at best case. When if they want to kill any of your creatures, they can.
Deathbringer Regent - Too much mana, too many restrictions. Not worth it IMO. Can be replaced with a better wipe, more utility or card draw!
Tymaret, Chosen from Death - You already have better grave hate and lifegain. Lose the redundancy for more card draw or better utility.
grasp of darkness is located under the creature section of your primer FYI
-Memorial to Folly - I disagree, I think coming in tapped and not being a swamp to fuel stronghold, defile and more is not worth the loss in tempo. I feel in black you can/have better recursion.