Grave Betrayal

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Archenemy Legal
Block Constructed Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Modern Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Pioneer Legal
Planechase Legal
Quest Magic Legal
Vanguard Legal
Vintage Legal

Grave Betrayal

Enchantment

Whenever a creature you don't control dies, return it to the battlefield under your control with an additional +1/+1 counter on it at the beginning of the next end step. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.

Cmi1103 on Think Fast, Marchesa!

3 months ago

Great deck! If you are consistently implementing the meta of stealing opponents creatures and making the your own, I would suggest looking at Grave Betrayal as a very fun card to play. I used to run it in my deck The Black Rose Never Dies. But ultimately steered away from stealing creatures myself as it didn't work out well in my pod (for some reason people don't like that XD).

DreadKhan on Meren

3 months ago

I suspect you've probably got enough creatures to look at Lurking Predators, it's ramp and card draw rolled into one package, you just need to run a lot of creatures. If you like big reanimation effects their is Grave Betrayal, this loves your various forced sacrifice effects. Coffin Queen and Hell's Caretaker are some lower to the ground reanimators that might be interesting, Queen can also reanimate your opponent's stuff. Demon of Dark Schemes is a weird recursion option, though it can go infinite, usually with creatures that make tokens via ETB. I've always loved having stuff like Dawntreader Elk and Diligent Farmhand in my Meren deck, they find a land without further input and end up in the graveyard when they do it, so you can recur them if that's the best option. I like Silverglade Pathfinder as both a clunky source of ramp that lets you discard creatures, it might not be powerful enough for your build though!

Mave on endles whispers edh

4 months ago

I read the thread when I tried to look up the rules for the cards which is kinda important for EDH Endless Whispers. (I plan on including it in Obeka)

In a 1v1 match it mostly tries to get the best creature of an opponent while donating negative effects. But in commander it becomes a game of "hot potato" where you can never be sure who gets the creatures of another player but you can decide what "garbage" you donate. That is the gist of what the deck will do in a multiplayer game.

Depending on what you give away you may want cards that can counter triggered abilities in case ove Leveler, Sky Swallower, Boldwyr Heavyweights, Eater of Days, Hunted Wumpus, Inverter of Truth, Dust Elemental, Avatar of Discord, Indentured Djinn Ebon Drake Plague Reaver Master of the Feast Tempting Wurm, the haunted one like Hunted Troll, Hunted Dragon,Hunted Dragon, Hunted Lammasu or Hunted Phantasm. Personally I would use Obeka, Brute Chronologist to counter the ETB of the creatures you play by ending the turn and then giving them to an opponent. But that only works for when the creature with negative effect enters the battlefield during your turn. But it is a great plan B in case you don't have Endless Whispers to give your opponents creatures from the list above by simply playing an 8/8 trample for then ending the turn before the trigger resolves.

Other options are Jon Irenicus, Shattered One or Blim, Comedic Genius both want your opponents to control your creatures. If you just want the effect of giving your opponents negative ETBs you can also build a deck on The Beamtown Bullies. But including Endless Whispers in this deck can backfire by giving you one of the negative effects if the creature dies. And it also is hard to let e.g. Leveler enter the battlefield to donate it through endless whispers. What helps with that may be to manifest a creature with a negative effect with e.g. Scroll of Fate. You can also manifest creatures with negative effect from your library but that is a bit more random.

To prevent getting creatures with negative effects from your opponents you to gain hexproof. There are plenty of effects giving yourself hexproof in white but I couldn't find a good commander for that. To gain hexproof yourself in a non white deck you most likely need Orbs of Warding which may be the way to go to prevent opponents to return the hot potato to you. Which is what I do in Obeka (sadly I don't have any list online of that deck).

If you like Endless Whispers to take your opponent cards however you might rather want to play Grave Betrayal or Lim-Dul the Necromancer. Overall it can still be used as a politicle tool. Especially if you donate one of the Haunted once you can build a pact with another player that you always trade them with each other to get more and more tokens.

Talking tokens it is also possible to put Endless Whispers in Grismold, the Dreadsower which gets into the direction of Dagger Burn known through Rampaging Ferocidon, Trespasser's Curse, Massacre Wurm, Slaughter Specialist and e.g. Illness in the Ranks/Virulent Plague. Whenever you donate Hunted Troll to an opponent or it enters the battlefield you let the 1/1 faeris directly die causing Grismold to trigger and also cards like Poison-Tip Archer.

It is also possible to play with effects like Plaguecrafter, Abyssal Gorestalker, Gravelighter. The player who gets the creature has to sacrifice one creature less and choses who sacrifice one creature less the next turn. But as long as you profit from death triggers via e.g. enchantments or artifacts you will profit most from your favourite card.

I also like Rakdos the Defiler to use Endless Whisper. After all one can donate some negative effects and if the opponent sacrifices creatures they have to donate them to someone else. Altough that also works better in 1v1.

I hope the explanation helps to find the right deck to play Endless Whispers in Commander.

EchoSpice on The Dark Brotherhood - Rogues & Riches

4 months ago

NV_1980 great suggestions! I would definitely do that, but ive already got a different deck dedicated to graveyard theft :D

Grave Betrayal is definitely going in Teenybones steels ur tings >:) though!

NV_1980 on The Dark Brotherhood - Rogues & Riches

4 months ago

Great build! I'm thinking this deck is so adept at killing opposing creatures, wouldn't it be fun to add a subtheme to steal from your opponents' graveyards; maybe with something like Grave Betrayal or auras like Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead/Necromancy?

Optimator on Roses of May -- (Marchesa Threaten)

4 months ago

I'm glad you love the deck elliotmward97!! I've had her for many years and I love her dearly. I even love Marchesa enough to have a five-color "Secret Marchesa" deck: Special Snowflakes. My playgroup ranges from precons and upgraded precons to "powerful casual" and this deck seems to hang with their stronger decks very well. It's certainly not cEDH, nor would I really want it to be. One of the reasons I kept the Threaten subtheme going string from it's budget days.

As far as "very little" card draw...

Bloodtracker, Braids, Arisen Nightmare, Grim Haruspex, River Kelpie, Sage of Fables, Scorn-Blade Berserker, Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, Phyrexian Arena, Jeska's Will, Syphon Mind, and Skullclamp are all card draw. That's eleven.

Phyrexian Reclamation is big-time card advantage if my goons keep getting whacked, Viscera Seer is decent card selection when the engine is running, and the non-Treaten theft cards could even be viewed as card-advantage if you squint (looping Thalakos Deceiver and Puppeteer Clique and Keiga, the Tide Star, Zara, Renegade Recruiter getting lucky a few times, Grave Betrayal sticking, etc).

Actually seems above-average to me, elliotmward97.

Perhaps it's light in more pure Concentrate- and Tidings-style draw, but I like the creature-based draw that synergizes with Marchesa. Makes the deck feel like it has more character, and the ceiling is quite high when the engine is rolling. Lower floor, perhaps. I've thought about including more draw effects like Bident of Thassa, Reconnaissance Mission, and Coastal Piracy since the deck swings out so much, but I like where things are right now.

Orange+ on Horobi and the Wailers ~100$

10 months ago

Hey, andmike.

Thanks for the comment :)

I dont have any immediate ideas for a 150$ build, but I guess you could consider adding some black staples. There are also some pretty decent death trigger cards that I dont play. There is probably much more interesting ways to add to the deck than introducing more staples (and making the deck much more similar to everyone elses), but finding good original cards is a harder process :)

Death trigger cards: Grave Betrayal, Massacre Wurm, and Revel in Riches.

Black staples: Cabal Coffers, Crypt Ghast, Cabal Stronghold, Vilis, Broker of Blood, Lightning Greaves, Skullclamp, Reanimate, Exhume, Dance of the Dead, Animate Dead, Necromancy, Grim Tutor, Bloodchief Ascension and Phyrexian Arena.

Best of luck!

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