|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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Creatures with flying can't attack you or planeswalkers you control.
At the beginning of your end step, create a 5/5 green Wurm creature token.
Sandwurm Convergence Discussion
1 day ago
Timmy: Big, flashy spells. Huge boardstates. High CMC. Loves long games, loves interactions.
Johnny: Win or lose, the fun is in playing the game. If everyone is having fun, a Johnny is happy.
Spike: If you're not winning, you're losing.
Vorthos: Artwork and flavor over design. A deck that only wins 30% of the time but is 100% flavorful is the best way to play. Think "Chair Tribal", "Hat Tribal" and "Sexy Woman Tribal".
Mel: is better than . Sorcery spells are garbage. Creatures need ETB effects. There are only a few good Planeswalkers in the game.
Timmy (Myself) is a player who enjoys large plays, huge mana sinks, massive boardstates, fringe combos, odd synergy, tribal mechanics, etc. As I've stated time and time again, I absolutely LOVE making creature tokens. Cards like Sandwurm Convergence is like huge bang for your buck when you create endless Wurms for free after the initial investment. I also love Planeswalkers as it's effectively a free Sorcery each and every turn, and the better ones bring flexibility to the game. Yes, I do try to win. No, unlike a lot of Timmy players I do not get butthurt if I lose.
Johnny are players who don't really care if they win or lose. They just want to sit down, play some Magic with their friends, and have fun. If everyone is having a blast, they are happy. Johnny's win when others are having fun. These are the guys that will pitch in for pizza, offer to host at their place, give you tips and pointers on how to play, and generally are awesome people. I'm a Johnny on this site as I always try to offer and give advice, but nothing makes me quite as happy as a boardstate with 20+ creature tokens, 4x anthems, and some giant engine that nobody uses because it's garbage.
Spike players are those who want to win, they only want to win, they are there to win, and they use the best cards to win. They are the ones who research decks, keep on top of meta data, care about win:loss ratios, hone their sideboards, and (In my experience) cheat whenever possible. They are the first ones to call out a rules violation and bring the game to a halt when they see someone else do it, but are quiet as a mouse and refute it endlessly when they do it. These are the only players I get angry with, and I actively avoid them at all costs. ACCORDING TO MARK ROSEWATER, a "Spike" player was first noticed when he realized four of his friends played in this way, and three of them are female. Therefore, "Spike" is a gender-neutral name.
Vorthos is a player who puts flavor above mechanics. These are the ones who will buy a Ride Down over Ride Down for a Samurai tribal. These are the ones who will make a "Bearforce One" deck. These are the ones who will only use burn spells that actually contain FIRE on them and not ELECTRICITY. They can be a Timmy or a Johnny. You are typically not going to find a Spike player who is Vorthos, because you can't have the best cards if you nit-pick their artistic design. Vorthos comes from Mark's friend John who would play this way. Since Johnny was already a name, Mark went with John's D&D character's name - Vorthos; A 14th Level Elf.
Mel (Melvin, shortened to Mel to become gender-neutral) is a player who meticulously rips apart each and every aspect and design of a card to find the objectively best value for their money and deck. For example, to a Mel, a Lightning Bolt is strictly worse than a Path to Exile or a Fatal Push . Why? Because Path to Exile permanently removes the threat from the game and Fatal Push permanently kills the threat. Lightning Bolt may not actually be enough to deal lethal. A 4/4 creature is out of Lightning Bolt reach, but not out of Path to Exile 's reach. Yes, we may disagree because we recognise that burn is a legitimate strategy. Dealing 3 damage to a creature who sustained combat damage is completely viable. Dealing 3 damage to your opponent and swinging in with a now 2/2 Monastery Swiftspear for a total of 5 damage is insanely good on T2, or even T1 with Simian Spirit Guide . But a Mel is going to look at all aspects of a card, and a 1 CMC 100% removal is better than a 1 CMC "eh, it might be removal". Mels are strong Spike players, but they are also players who just want to maintain curve, stabilize their color requirements, and hone their deck. For example, Hero's Downfall is strictly better than Murder . But if you are in two or more colors, Dark Banishing is strictly better as the color cost is less strict. If you are up against black creatures, sideboard Hero's Downfall and never even consider Murder .
1 week ago
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
1 month ago
Ok I'm not gonna say what you should take out, because to me that's part of personalizing one's own deck. Some things I reccomend putting in Advent of the Wurm , Sandwurm Convergence , a few non-budget-friendly cards like Doubling Season , Parallel Lives , Anointed Procession . All would help make the deck hum making multiple tokens.
2 months ago
Hey man, thanks for writing me about the updates.
I like the addition of the "protect your creatures" stuff. I think you nailed it when you said there's no need for that other stuff, when we should be thinking about advancing our boardstate. There's a couple stuff I think we can discuss.
The large number of rocks are so good, but I think we should ramp, too. I think we can include Rampant Growth , Cultivate and Farseek and accommodate the by taking out Mirror March (too Random / high cmc), Domri, Chaos Bringer (Bit of a non-bo with the commander as he creates no tokens) and Moonsilver Spear (costs a lot of man to get going). Ramping a lot means we can get Ghired on the field t3-4 and start attacking to populate the tokens. If you want to run a another ramp spell like Kodama's Reach or Harrow , I think Manalith can be replaced. With running only 33 lands, I think ramping will help
I think at the top of the curve, Sandwurm Convergence and Primeval Bounty offer good, repeated advantage, But I think something like Terastodon would be perfect instead, as you could easily create a token of it (blowing up 3 more things / your own lands for 3/3 elephants) and then POPULATE the token with Ghired, giving you another 9/9 on attack.
How do you feel about Trostani Discordant , Trostani's Summoner , Emmara, Soul of the Accord , Emmara Tandris , Growing Ranks , and Finale of Glory ? I think some of the Eldrazi could tag out for any of them.
How does it go in play-testing?
2 months ago
Martial Coup could be a good boardwipe for this deck.
Sandwurm Convergence can give you some beefy tokens and protection from flyers.
Finale of Revelation could be fun in this deck.
Emmara, Soul of the Accord could be a fun token generator.
Overall, this deck looks pretty well put-together. +1
3 months ago
4 months ago
If you intentionally don't use Primal Surge to the maximum capabilities, you are not min-maxing your deck. Without diving into more technical applications of card advantage, resource cost, opportunity cost, and speed that factor into format defining competitive decks, we can refute your min-max shenanigans with that one little argument alone. You are also spending the maximum amount of mana to get the effect, instead of cheating to cast Primal Surge somehow, which doesn't mean you're getting the minimum either. You're getting a maximum-mediocre, which is a lot different than a minimum-maximum. You haven't even minimized the number of non-permanent spells, because that would be 0 and that's definitely something you could do. facepalm again
Having the opinion that one card wincons are boring doesn't make much difference to how effective they are. Also Coalition Victory is banned because of the ease of Prismatic Omen with a 5 color commander, not because its a one card wincon (which its not, it requires at least 1 creature and 1 land that makes 3 cards, not even counting the cards required to cast the spell in the first place), the other reason being it wins on resolve instead of requiring an upkeep (creates no drama on the board, kaput game is over). A better example of a one-card wincon would be Felidar Sovereign , which is legal, but you do have to get it into play somehow, which would require some amount of cards to get the mana. Even if you do find 1 card win cons boring, you're openly stating you wouldn't run an optimal card to win. Once again, definitely not min-maxing.
Sandwurm Convergence is a bad card dude. It costs 8 mana to give you a creature every turn and negate some attacks. When the format has all kinds of legal 1 and 2 mana cost tutors, and even more 2, 3, and 4 mana cost ways to win, 8 mana for a pillowfort card that doesn't guarantee immunity is not good. Its not even good in a format like standard or modern either, due to the high mana cost. Compare to Bitterblossom .
- Turn 2, you play BB
- Turn 3, you get first token (and 1 every turn after)
- Turn 4, you swing with 1 attacker for 1 damage dealt
- Turn 4, you swing with 2 attackers for 3 damage dealt
- Turn 5, you swing with 3 attackers for 6 damage dealt
- Turn 6, you swing with 4 attackers for 10 damage dealt
- Turn 7, you swing with 5 attackers for 15 damage dealt
- Turn 8, you swing with 6 attackers for 21 damage dealt
By the time you get to play Sandwurm Convergence, Bitterblossom has already dealt 21 damage. Sure, the 5/5 tokens are bigger and nice, but you get them faaaaaaaaar later than you get the BB tokens. This is part of the reason things with lower CMC are so much better. Speed is very important in MTG.
From a pillowfort perspective, Sandwurm Convergence still doesn't make sense. You even run Solitary Confinement but don't understand why that's such a better card than this one. If you play Idyllic Tutor into Solitary Confinement, you've spent 2 less mana and you STILL get a better effect. Even when these two abiliites of token creation and pillowfort are stapled together, the card just isn't worth the CMC.
The same idea goes for Phyrexian Arena and Honden of Seeing Winds . By turn 5 when you could play Honden, you've already drawn 2 cards with Arena. This is also why Dark Confidant is so expensive and is worlds ahead of Phyrexian Arena , even though it will usually cost you even more life. Having also lower CMC means you can also do multiple things. On turn 4, if you draw a Dark Confidant you can play it while also holding a Counterspell . The same is not true for Phyrexian Arena .
But what about multiple draws from multiple Hondens? That requires a greater number of cards from hand/deck and a waaaaay larger investment in mana. For 4 cards and 17 mana, there are all kinds of way better things you can do. I'd rather just play Mind Unbound and save the 3 other slots, even though that is also a bad card.
Counterbalance is a much better option than any of the other counter enchantments you're running. Unfortunately, you have 0 topdeck manipulation, so you're basically just crossing your fingers and hoping it works.
Relying on Sterling Grove or Privileged Position to protect you from Hive Mind is absurd when you run almost no tutors and very mediocre draw. When are you going to have both these out? If just one of them is out, it gets nuked first by removal, then the rest of your board follows suit. Hive Mind is bad the same way Mind's Dilation is bad, don't rely on your opponents to have certain cards in their decks to win for you.
You rely on about 3 different cards to win, none of them are even close to fast, and you have no way to reliably get them to hand or get them from the command zone. Even in battlecruiser casual EDH, most decks win or create a game winning board state by turn 10. Your game plan is topdeck well or lose. You need to get some better win conditions, or you're going to be losing a lot of games against anyone who has been playing longer than six months. I really don't know why you're writing a primer for a casual mish-mash of 99 cards either, you aren't doing much education on your card choices and I can see no reason someone would run this build over another K&T build. You aren't running optimal card choices, from your lands, to your ramp, to your draw, to your win cons, to your removal, to your pillowfort. This list is just another enchantress list stapled to K&T with almost no wincons and with a sub-optimal Primal Surge package stapled on that doesn't even guarantee a win on resolving.
4 months ago
Modern Horizons added few cards worth looking at and testing. Currently looking to get a foil Hall of Heliod's Generosity , which is going to be an auto-include. Also excited for On Thin Ice . Always wanted to run Chained to the Rocks in the deck since its mana cost is so aggressive, but the extremely low Mountain count made it so unreliable it was not worth it. Hopefully the ability to run snow lands makes On Thin Ice much more playable. I wish Marit Lage's Slumber was easier to shove in the deck as a spicy wincon, but there are not enough non-basic snow permanents to bother.
That being said. It's time for my rebuttal.
First of all, I don't see how the way I've constructed my deck couldn't be described as "min-max". I've minimized the number of non-permanent spells and maximized the number of enchantments.
My mana-base has proven itself not to be a problem from the times I played. I don't remember a time where I was starved for any one color of mana before. Admittedly many of the lands enter tapped, but my meta isn't cut-throat where that's a problem. That being said, the manlands might get cut soon. They were a product of the meta at the time and weren't all that relevant.
Sandwurm Convergence was an include due to the abundance of dragon and Kaalia decks in my meta. The 5/5 is hard to attack into as well. You'd be surprised the amount of times being unable to be attacked by fliers has mattered. Mind's Dilation can be hit or miss. Ripping a land does suck. If Mind's Dilation hits removal, I can probably cast it on something, otherwise the board's probably looking pretty empty. Hitting a counterspell off of Mind's Dilation can be used to counter the spell that triggered it. As far as the hondens are concerned, the only one that's bad outright by itself is the white one . Players run cards like Phyrexian Arena and Bitterblossom for incremental advantage all the time.
As far as the counter-enchantments, it's just a part of the stipulation I've created for the deck. The alternative I could do for myself is just cut the counterspell themed enchantments altogether and focus more on resolved threats and other effects that interact with the opponent (i.e. Rule of Law and Spirit of the Labyrinth ). Admittedly, I've thought about cutting Sunken Field for Counterbalance .
"Generally, when Hive Mind is out, players tend to refrain from casting instants and sorceries because giving opponents an advantage is bad, and removal can be used against the caster. Occasionally players are willing to ignore those downsides and you will get free card advantage and removal. At it's worst, your opponents all naturalize you." That being said, the "all the removal will be used against you" becomes a non-issue if Sterling Grove and/or Privileged Position are out.
The wincon for the deck is overwhelmingly out-valuing the opponents with card advantage, then dumping mana into Helix Pinnacle . I have added Sigil of the Empty Throne and Opalescence as additional wincons, although Opalescence will likely get cut for something else. I've never liked that it and Starfield of Nyx turn the hard-to-remove enchantments into easy-to-remove creatures.
Sandwurm Convergence occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.03%