Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion
Legendary Creature — Zombie Minotaur Warrior
Whenever this deals combat damage to a player or planeswalker, you may discard any number of cards. If you do, draw that many cards and gain that much . Until end of turn, you don't lose this mana as steps and phases end.
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion Discussion
4 weeks ago
Hi Hercules23 :)
thanks for your input. I also had Feldon as the commander before Purphoros and I completely agree with you. The same goes for your description about red and MLD (I also have a Ruric Thar whose strategy is exactly what you described, by breaking parity with MLD). This is why I never considered including MLD in Purphy B.
Regarding the MDFC Lands, this deck generally cannot play upfront (it happened like two times for me) so having lands enter the battlefield tapped when you need them untapped is less punishing for this deck (unlike for a combo deck or interaction heavy decks, those decks really need untapped lands) However, I agree that the cost of them coming into play tapped is meta dependant. I wouldnt want to play those cards if my meta is highly tuned and the games are over at turn 6 in average. In my meta, the games take a bit longer and having them come into play tapped is rarely a downside because of the philosophy of this deck/my playstyle: I either am not being attacked by my opponents because I often have open mana (I might have a fatty to cheat into play to block their haymakers/valuable creatures) or I am just not threatening (either because I dont even have Purphy B. out or no real hand to deliver fatal damage). In all those cases, drawing a MDFC land from the top with no other lands in hand in a situation in which I really need a untapped land is rarely a real downside because of the reasons stated above. This might seem not convincing, but I played and still play this deck a ton and have >50 games with the MDFC lands included and it happened only once or twice where it really hurt. There were far more games in which these niche "extra" spells performed extremely good, especially Kazuul's Fury Flip. Spikefield Hazard Flip also plays better than it looks, there are many value creatures with toughness 1 and Spikefield Hazard also prevents reanimation shenanigans and graveyard based combos which your opponents never expect from a mono red deck with only one mountain untapped. I can totally see your point though and understand you having doubts about those inclusions. I can just say: You should really give them a try :)
Keldon Firebombers You are totally right, the wheel argument I made is a weak one, I tried to justify my cut :D But still, I had to cut something. This list is so tight... It seems rather easy to cut other stuff like Bolt or Abrade but this would be the wrong way.
Ryusei, the Falling Star the "without flying" part is a real downside, at least in my meta. I'd rather have unconditional mass damage like in Crater Hellion and for most creatures 4 damage is enough :)
Spinerock Knoll Damn, that one totally flew under my radar, thanks for pointing that out!
Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion Yeah I was thinking about this one before. You are completely right, it cycles through my hand and even better: It costs 4 mana and can be thus played before Purphy B. which is a huge advantage: Many of the value creatures like Neheb, the Eternal or Terror of the Peaks cost 5 cmc which makes it wierd and not optimal since Purphy B. need to be played asap. I haven't found a cut for this Neheb, as I'd rather have a wheel effect. The wheel costs less mana and gives me unconditionally a new hand whereas this Neheb needs to connect. Also, you can never generate card advantage with this card. The "downside" of a wheel though (my opponents get a new hand) can be neglected as I am usually the person with the emptiest hand and thus gain the most value of a wheel. If I weren't playing all those wheel effects I would totally play this card :)
Extra Combat cards: Yeah, they are soooo good and you are again right^^ I am honest, so far I have 2 extra combat step cards in my list Scourge of the Throne and Moraug, Fury of Akoum and I haven't felt the need for more extra combat step cards. I guess I could include one more card. If you include to many of those extra combat step cards, you will reach a treshold at which they become less effective since you have less "beef" that benefit from those extra step cards. This is also why I decided against both the cards you mentioned in favor for the scourge and Moraug: They are themselves big beaters and can deal insane amount of damage without the help of other beaters. Moraug alone won me games (I had devotion of 5, so that Purphy B. was able to attack and I had 2 fetch lands available). Also, winning with Purphy B. mostly boils down to one explosive combat step. Combant Celebrant with "only" one extra combat step is certainly worse. Port Razer has the potential to have more than one extra combat step, but he needs to connect which is not guaranteed at all. Granted, Scourge also provides only one extra combat step, but, as I said, this guy is beefy on its own, and a dragon for Dragon's Hoard .
Everflowing Chalice I missed that one :) thanks
Regarding MLD: I completely agree with everything you said (it really is silly for green mages to complain while they stomp faces with 20 mana on turn 6) except for one thing: You won't win a game "fast" with 3 mana left and Purphy B. out after setting everything back with MLD or resource denial. You beat face for one time and then your creature dies. You might have Mimic Vat or Sundial of the Infinite or any other recursion but half of the MLD cards also destroy artifacts. You also need to get back to 3 mana after MLD cards like Jokulhaups / Obliterate which will be troublesome as those cards cost 6-7 mana, so you probably already played most if not all of your lands and rocks. If you reach that game state in which you have 6-7 mana available your hand is most likely rather empty, so you most likely wont have enough beater to deal with the whole table. "Not having enough beater to deal with the whole table" is exactly why you usually cannot play upfront with this commander. This is why you actually need your opponents to deal damage among them, so you can close out the game in an explosive turn with your limited beef (see philosophy, and yes, this is why this deck usually sucks hard if only combo and blue mages are on the table). MLD and also stuff like Smoke / Mudslide actually prevents exactly that: Since you are denying your opponents resources, they will stay at high life points which means that your average beater (that was cheated into play and dies after one turn) is just not enough. You'd rather want to hardcast them in this state of the game which is impossible though because of MLD. My point is: I do not thinkg that having an indestructible commander is a reason enough for playing MLD. You would need card- and mana-generating permanents like Chandra, Torch of Defiance or Outpost Siege that won't get destroyed by MLD.
Treasonous Ogre and Alena: I dont really see the need of having big mana in this deck. It is counterintuitive as this deck is all about circumventing the big mana costs with the ability of Purphy B. Maybe you can convince me otherwise :)? I could see those cards worth running, if your meta adapted to your commander by always saving the removal card for him. This is actually the biggest weakness of this deck. Handling Purphy B. once is devastating as 7 cmc is not always in reach.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx True, no real downside, but the devotion of this deck is usually quite low as there is almost no board presence except for the turns in which you attack. It might be advantageous in exactly those moments to have 2-3 more mana available during that turn, maybe just enough to cheat an additional creature into play. Just be careful not to include too many of colorless lands :)
1 month ago
Great deck. Definitely plan on trying it out. I've got a Feldon deck that I built using the Daretti Precon as a base. While Feldon is an awesome commander, I also agree that you really need haste to be effective with him. Purphoros serving as sneak attack in the command zone is really nice. I actually like land destruction and resource denial in MonoR when the commander supports it, as gives you a clear resource advantage and helps you close out games quickly. I feel like its important to utilize MLD in the right context though. The bad experiences playgroups have with the MLD player is when they wipe all the lands with no wincon or way to break parity, forcing the game to essentially restart and take double the time. I believe that reds lack of ramp can be counteracted by its ability to target opponents manabases, and its silly for others to complain about this when green players and landfall strategies are so common at producing absurd amounts of lands very quickly. Purphoros really shines with MLD because he can survive with indestructible and you only need 3 mana online to start beating face. Thats probably solid enough parity to go on the front foot and win. Some of the MDFC Lands ( Song-Mad Treachery Flip, Spikefield Hazard Flip, and Kazuul's Fury Flip seem quite mediocre. I'm not sure if the ability on the frontside is even worth the cost of them coming in tapped and slowing things down. Cards I want to try so far are listed below, I wonder what your thoughts on them are?
Keldon Firebombers - You already mentioned this one, 3 lands makes it seem like its made for Purphoros. Even if the opponents get a new hand with lands from a wheel, the likelihood of them being about to ramp out multiple lands in the mid-late game is lower.
Ryusei, the Falling Star - Free boardwipe when we let it die to Purph's effect
Spinerock Knoll - Seems extremely easy to play the exiled card for free with the amount of damage we can do
Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion - Helps cycle through the deck and get more mana
Everflowing Chalice - artifact recycling and scales well with more mana if needed
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - No real downside
1 month ago
2 months ago
Looking REALLY good so far! If you're looking for mana sinks, consider Soul of Shandalar or Sundering Stroke . What about Howl of the Horde or Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion ? Would Syr Carah, the Bold , Molten Psyche , or Past in Flames fix your card draw problem? Leyline Tyrant looks like it would do WORK in this deck if you don't mind the cost.
3 months ago
My decks tend to have a pattern of meiosis. I started out building a few two-color decks, but in time, I ended up splitting the colors, each half of the deck growing out to their individual outspoken parts.
What started as a Mina and Denn, Wildborn landfall deck, became on one hand a mono green landfall deck with Rhonas the Indomitable in charge, which very recently changed into Omnath, Locus of Mana big green ramp. On the other hand, the red half melded into Etali, Primal Storm big red, big burn deck, that's now helmed by Kumano, Master Yamabushi .
My Athreos, God of Passage aristocrats deck split into Rankle, Master of Pranks and Heliod, God of the Sun the same way, and my The Locust God deck split into Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion and a mono blue deck, now led by Naru Meha, Master Wizard .
Out of the 13 decks I currently have, 8 of them are monocolored and one of them is colorless. The multicolored decks that remain, are held together by synergies that demand more than one, like Boros equipments ( Akiri, Line-Slinger + Arden, Intrepid Archaeologist ) , Jund Sacrifice ( Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire ), Temur Landfall Omnath, Locus of the Roil and 5C Shrines (Golos, by lack of inspiration). But now that I have two different Omnath decks, I have an itch to build the other two Omnaths as well. That's pretty much how my patterns keep changing, a new line connecting current decks usually leads to inspiration to build the next.
I do notice my developed preference for monocolored decks, but I don't feel hindered by this way of thinking. I like leaning into it, finding cool ways within the limits of the color, to make the decks suprising anyway, to make them as interesting as can be for me to play.
3 months ago
Hey! I'm happy to share suggestions, as I've thrown out a few ideas and tried to chat about insight so far. You may want to try and isolate cards you're willing to remove - that way you can still feel like the deck is yours, while being open to prospective ideas / outside perspective ya know?
I'll try to make suggestions with budget in mind!
- Get the same effect with a higher upside and immediately get to discard a Dragon. Non-artifact so it's harder to remove. Mid and late-game card-drawing machine with an evasive Dragon.
- This Neheb is too slow and while the synergy is there, it's going to have trouble making a consistent impact. Even an ETB tapped fetch still keeps you getting the color mana you need while (statistically marginally) thinning your deck and cleaning your future draws.
- Overall, these edits reduce your cumulative curve, provide similar (if not more consistent) discard ability, and much higher ceilings for providing value. Evolving Wilds is your 2nd fetch, so you can keep improving the lands you're getting into play. Daretti lets you move through the deck quicker AND has artifact synergies if you choose to lean into that line of play. Chainer is a discard outlet and haste enabler the turn he comes down, so he's already got the same floor as Mad Prophet with the opportunity to be impactful if he stays on the board.
- Since you've enjoyed leaning heavily into the discard aspect, Temple makes a lot of sense for you to have access to a mid or late-game land to ramp a bit. With all these expensive Dragons, I'm sure you've had a turn or two with plenty of un-used mana (I have!), so this gives you a way to maximize the discard AND set yourself up to keep having access to mana!
- The five-mana CMC for a less-efficient Sneak Attack just feels heavy in this build. Adding Landscape gives you another opportunity to pull lands out of your deck and keep having colors on the battlefield - I'm sure you've noticed but the double and triple-pips of the deck can be VERY challenging at times. Being able to get two Mountains (or your two Swamps) will hugely impact your ability to play relevant spells on time. As far as getting one more haste enabler, even with Chainer already in...
- Tyrant is a win-more and a payoff card. It's a fun ambition, but in a deck chock-full of power and crazy cool Dragons, we don't need this. Instead, big Kolaghan comes down much earlier AND hastes our entire squad.
- Courser enables shenanigans and fantastic temporary Commander fun. It's effect can be much more impactful than Thundermaw Hellkite's in the long-run, and essentially acts as another reanimation spell. Thundermaw's effect is pretty narrow, while Courser's lets us go into the graveyard for a more toolbox-like approach, depending on what we've been able to get into the graveyard so far.
- This might be a little bit of personal preference, and with how many ways this deck has to kill opponents' creatures on your turn, I think it provides a great ceiling while also acting as an early-game blocker. Mana that you can do anything with is so precious in this deck, and it happens to synergize nicely with the best addition to this deck in Kaldheim...
- I personally don't think this deck needs to go wide, otherwise you'd be running more cost reduction ( Urza's Incubator , Dragonspeaker Shaman ) as well as Nesting Dragon . Big-mana decks are always going to need mana, and Goldspan makes it in spades.
- This is a different style of play, I'd just rather avoid exiling my Dragons or only getting a single use out of them...for a minimum of 8 mana and two turns. Feldon has more flexibility in coming down quicker and activating sooner. You're packing High Market and Phyrexian Tower here for sac outlets to get rid of the tokens (same as the Dragons from Zirilan realistically), but you're doing it much earlier in the game, or with mana to spare, with no downside of losing a Dragon for the rest of the game.
- Between all of the Dragon ETB damage and the removal suite available to Rakdos, you don't need more removal, I'm sure you've noticed this! Especially cost-inefficient removal. Having more reanimation effects, especially to act as a or flicker effect? There's WAY more flexibility here for how the Dragon reanimator wants to succeed. I agree that more removal is always good though! With that in mind...
- Play faster, and play with more flexibility. Command will give you options based on how the game's playing, and playing at instant-speed ensures you can be more interactive. Along that same line...
- Flexibility in usage! More than likely this will get rid of a troublesome artifact, and wouldn't you know it that some of the best graveyard hate is on artifacts! The graveyard hosing can also be key and, again, playing at instant-speed gives you more opportunities to disrupt opponents. For a high-curve deck like this, that's really important!
- Let's help Rakdos players see that Arena isn't the powerhouse everyone thinks it is! Exploration does EVERYTHING we could need - especially in your build, which has a higher concentration of Dragons, there's a greater likelihood for you to fill your graveyard quicker! Please give this a shot and let me know what you think!
Four of these cards ETB tapped and make you a turn slower, AND they're bad in the late-game since they have little utility. There's no snow synergy here to justify Coldsteel. Having more land ensures you'll hit your drops throughout the game. Wayfarer's lets you keep some ramp (I prefer Expedition Map, but one discussion at a time) while Archive has mana utility and lets you cash in when you have leftover mana. Smooth out your hands, get more consistent draws and turns, and have the ability to draw more cards.
- All of these Dragons in the yard are going to go to waste if you can't get them out onto the field! This is my favorite low-cost reanimator aside from the namesake - if you wanted to make a case for Stitch Together I wouldn't argue it. Being able to get two Dragons out, albeit tapped, ensures you can keep some board presence. It also lets you use up some of those Sneak Attack / token creations in an efficient way. I know losing some card draw feels a bit weird, and based on how the deck's built up, and from what you've described about your playstyle, it sounds like you may have an over-abundance of card-draw and not enough interaction. Hopefully this changes things!
Non-budget upgrade, and more likely to consistently come down untapped and provide the same color flexibility. If budget doesn't allow this edit, I'd say the non-budget move could be Path of Ancestry .
I do think you need to find room for one of the game-winning, mass-reanimators like Living Death or Patriarch's Bidding , or the new Kaldheim one, I'm blanking on the name. I'd take out Scourge of Kher Ridges for it to give yourself a win condition out of nowhere!
Hopefully these ideas help, or at least spark some further ideation for you to think about! If you want to chat about Bladewing in real-time over Discord or Reddit I'm on both sites as ThePillowman :)
5 months ago
personally i like Syr Carah, the Bold but you have to tune the deck around her so that you don't wiff a win con into exile
ive also heard good things about Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion
but you don't have to restrict yourself red has plenty of good commanders like the ones mentioned earlier in this post
personally i also like Zirilan of the Claw its a bit timmy but still fun
6 months ago
The indestructible equipment serve as decent protection but really as the third piece of the Aggravated Assault + Neheb combo. It's very rare I can swing into an empty table and win with that, I usually need him to be indestructible to get through blockers.
I'm considering cutting Sandstone Oracle, Heartless Hidetsugo, Tectonic Giant, Chandra's ignition, Desert of the Fervant, Field of Ruin, Fanatic of Mogis, quest for pure flame, outpost siege, and seething song. I don't actually need to cut all of these.