Crow_Umbra Great minds : ) Though I do maybe just like combat tricks way too much. I feel like most of my deck ideas are, how do I make this jank thing work, and I'm always like...hmmm...combat tricks?

And yep, love those game nights that go maybe too far, every now and then at least.

Crow_Umbra Lunch room sounds amazing! I'd love to try it out sometime with a deck full of combat tricks like Giant Growth The explosive attacks that come from drawing all new seven and then using every single one, sounds kinda amazing : ) Though maybe it's a format where it's best just to bring existing decks and jam games. If everyone really put their minds to making broken Lunch Room decks, it would be the most brutal meta ever : )

Such a good idea!

FormOverFunction Those are some really creative and awesome game ideas! The five pointed star game seems like it would have so much going on and everyone would be so engaged with everything because of how fast things can flip in a 5 way alliance/standoff. I really love commander but I think the thing I find the hardest in it is how much of the game can be something where there isn't a lot of interaction, sometimes it feels like each player is just doing their deck's set up thing then pass. The crazy turns in commander are the best, but like the first 5 turns...they might be typically the least interactive in all of magic, and I more and more struggle with it.

Maybe every play group just needs somebody every now and then who's like, hey I've got an idea for a subgame like 5-pointed star, let's play a few : )

Icbrgr I hear that! I guess in the end, balance is everything, and wherever a group can find a fun balance is where it will be the best time for everyone.

Commander is definitely still the best way to jump into a new group and get some games, I just feel like after a while with a group you can go down a really deep meta hole in 60multi where every player is changing up who and how they target, because every player can't possibly defend themselves against everyone else together, where in EDH players can much more feasibly 1v3 everyone if they have insane plays.

SaberTech So true about the crazy charm of commander, and yep, I love me some commander games too, but I think what I really enjoy in 60multi is that I can bring a few decks, play a few games, switch in between and adjust to what's going on.

And I will say, I actually see a lot more spot removal in 60 card, and I kind of like that better than boardwipes that are often just way more efficient in EDH. I feel like everyone just stays more engaged and making decisions rather than people sitting on boardwipes until things get out of hand. It lowkey drives me nuts when someone in commander is not playing much of anything and waiting to clear everything to start playing.

legendofa I actually forgot about 2 headed giant, and I don't know emperor, so may have to look into a few things : ) But yeah, so true about group dynamics and how it can make different formats work. We usually have at most one more competitive player, so it often balances that they get ganged up on, but I can see how more than that can devolve quick.

I really like both formats, but just wanted to see what everyone thought on how 60 card multiplayer games go in your groups compared to commander.

4+ player casual 60 card is the first format I played back in the day, and it's still kind of my favorite if I have the choice. Games don't go as long as commander, everyone's deck does it's thing, and players seem to build closer to 1v1 decks just with added toolbox functions for the late game.

I do think that commander does create bigger and crazier board states and that can be so fun, but I really struggle sometimes with the first few turn cycles in EDH where not much is happening and players get quickly disinterested until bigger things start happening.

Though I will say that 20 life multiplayer takes a really good group to have fun with because two players can almost always team up to take someone out, and if it's not friends, that would probably be super tough to deal with. But what do you all think? Could there be a world where multiplayer 20 life non-singleton can ever be a format? Would it take an insane ruleset and banlist to make it work?

Also, I do think that multiplayer 60 has to have a few specific rules to go well. I feel like there almost needs to be a no deals rule, because players can so often knock each other out, it would make the game unbearable to say, if I don't attack you have to do X thing. Plus, it's part of the fun to not attack people because they can help you with a bigger threat, and then sometimes that player who was kicking around on 2 life for a while can steal wins, and that's awesome. The other is no deck outs, we usually play to shuffle up your graveyard because otherwise people just randomly drop out of the game with 0 interaction to it.

I really like this deck, thanks for posting it : ) I was tinkering with one of my decks and had a ton of fun playtesting against your list because you have both a aggro strategy and a toolbox strategy and it makes for awesome games. You've made an awesome list where even if your opponent shuts down the aggro you still have a lot of plays, and the poison damage can get tough to deal with if the game goes late.

Mostly I play multiplayer 60 card, and your list seems right at home in that kinda meta. Everything is cohesive, you have a ton of options, and everything works well with your main strategy. I don't know, I just really like it!

Also, the idea of Ram Through being able to steal game out of nowhere is so good