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|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Neheb, the Worthy
Legendary Creature — Minotaur Warrior
Other Minotaurs you control have first strike.
As long as you have one or fewer cards in hand, Minotaurs you control get +2/+0.
Whenever Neheb, the Worthy deals combat damage to a player, each player discards a card.
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1 week ago
Rule 510.4 on Combat Steps
- "If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike (see rule 702.7) or double strike (see rule 702.4) as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike. After that step, the phase proceeds to the end of combat step."
Cited rule 702.4b on Double Strike
- " If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike (see rule 702.7) or double strike as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike. After that step, the phase proceeds to the end of combat step."
This appears to be a timing restriction.
At the beginning of the combat step, our cows would definitely have first strike. So that is checked off and we now understand that there will be "two combat steps", one in which first strike combat damage is applied, proceeded by one where non-first strike combat damage is applied by anything who did not already have first strike.
The question is, if after the first strike damage is applied, the Angrath card should immediately give all cows double strike as long as 5 or more damage was dealt (And assuming no other sufficient damage was dealt previously in the turn to trigger this preemptively). So since we know for a fact that Angrath will benefit all of the cows double strike, do they proceed to deal additional combat damage AFTER the first strike combat damage step has wrapped up?
In other words,
We all agree that the Minotaur have first strike, and we all understand that the Minotaur will be dealing their combat damage during the "First strike combat damage step".
The question becomes, will they then proceed to deal ADDITIONAL damage during the follow-up "combat damage step", because they now have double strike?
From what I am reading, the answer is YES.
Since we know for a fact that the Minotaur have first strike, we know for a fact that the "First strike combat damage step" will commence. After our Minotaur deal sufficient combat damage (5 or greater), they gain double strike.
When we then move to the "Primary combat damage step", our Minotaur currently have double strike. They BEGIN this combat damage step with double strike.
So I guess the internet is torn on their blogs about it, but it is actually quite clear.
- If you enter a second combat step WITH double strike, you will deal secondary combat damage, even if that double strike was gained between the first and primary combat damage steps.
7 months ago
I think I'm not explaining myself well.
My central thought is that + does not equal . Red might not get deathtouch, but green has full access to it. Why should a red/green card not get deathtouch simply because red doesn't get deathtouch?
Ergo, a color can provide one of its abilities to a card, even if another color can't.
So why is unable to provide deathtouch to (and ) cards? Is somehow better at removal than these colors?
I promise I'm not asking these questions rhetorically, or in anger. I genuinely don't fully understand. And as I was writing this response, I realize my position hearkens back to GDS3 and the infamous flying vigilance question. To which I respond that since that question was asked, Warrant / Warden was printed, and still no vigilant flyer.
And I think I've derailed this enough. If anyone wants to help me out, start another thread and I'll respond. With my apologies, let's get this back to the many faces of Gruul in Commander.
8 months ago
aholder7 thank you so much for your detailed comment , i appreciate it and I completely see what you're tying to suggest. I'll definitely try it the way you posted above. Btw My initial idea was to have low cost disruption spell to mess with the opponent and to have cards like Bloodrage Brawler and Bone Shards to enable early turns Unearth to cheat from graveyard minotaurs and to have as fast as possible the requisite for Neheb, the Worthy ability. and yes Kragma Warcaller felt very slow for this idea. Do you think that this way the deck can somehow works? Thank you for your time :)
8 months ago
I'm a big fan of minotaurs as well. The main thing you will need to contend with for minotaurs is that despite being red/black it's not very fast without something like Aether Vial to drop additional threats. And if it's trying to go fast cards like Kragma Warcaller are going to come down way too late. The second big problem you will be fighting is card advantage. I know that you are trying to get the 1 card or less ability on Neheb, the Worthy but every card is a resource and you are throwing yours away with cards like Bone Shards and Bloodrage Brawler. You'll get down to 1 card in hand pretty easily if your curve is lower. Third problem. All of the good creatures are at 3 mana. you have Neheb, the Worthy, Rageblood Shaman, Glint-Horn Buccaneer, Felhide Petrifier, and Ragemonger.
So is all lost for the horned and hooved? I think we can make it work (though if you just like tribal and don't care which tribe, vampires might be a better BR tribe for you). It might shift how the deck feels a bit. Even looking at other minotaurs not in your list there just aren't enough good ones at low CMCs to make this an aggro deck. Territorial Kavu is going to be a 2 mana 5/5 with no downsides for decks that want it. a Bloodrage Brawler just won't compete on speed and power. So i suggest embracing the slowness and trying to fight as a midrange deck where we want the game to go a bit longer.
I think you can utilize cards like Sardian Cliffstomper and Glint-Horn Buccaneer that work well in a grindier game. You could also use a couple discard spells like Inquisition of Kozilek to help fill out the low end of your curve. Neheb, the Worthy also pairs nicely with Felhide Petrifier.
lastly Rakdos Charm is an amazing spell, but it should probably be in your sideboard, not your mainboard.
could end up something like this
9 months ago
I think it's been asked before, but we have many new players and users so I thought it would be nice to go over it again.
Title says it all.
Many users on here may be aware my favorite and most beloved tribe are the Minotaur, but why is this?
When I first began playing, I just went big or went home. Huge creatures, 8+ mana spells, massive combat swings, etc. Then, one of my former co-workers who happens to play competitively wanted to sit down at the table with us.
He brought his Modern Elfball deck, which won 1st place in a local championship. And I lost, again and again and again. At first losing wasn't so bad, but this guy also is not just a sore loser, but he has a bit of a God complex.
What do I mean by this? Any possible chance he gets in life to either put someone down, or prop himself up, he'll take. For example, when I was a machine operator maybe I'll have setup, did the fine-tune and achieved minimum scrap in about 45 minutes before production approval. He would, completely unprovoked, tell you he could have done it in 30 with zero scrap. Just to make you feel bad. Then, when it took him six hours and over 3,000 pounds of material, it was the fault of everyone else. Material suppliers for garbage plastic, engineers for poor tooling design, maintenance for failing machine upkeep, etc.
So anyway, there I am losing over and over. Eventually, I stopped playing Magic. Weeks would pass and he would still loom all of the loses over my head.
- "Oh yeah, that's cool. But how many games did you win? Oh right, none."
Eventually I had a bit of an epiphany... He's winning with big creatures and fast combat. What if I out paced him, with midrange?
So I went to work. My Rakdos Minotaur deck had 13 (mostly) instant speed kill spells and Minotaur lords by the playset, and ramp.
Eventually he had a boardstate of a few Elves, and I had just three Minotaur.
I move to combat. A 2/3, 2/2 and a 2/3? He shrugs and takes it.
Well, Unlicensed Disintegration. 3 more damage to face. Fugg.
Okay so what he takes 6, so 9 in total? Big whoop.
So really it's a 5/4, a 5/3 and a 5/4.
So 15+3 or 18. Lethal, at this point.
He freaks the F out and puts up blockers despite us having moved to combat damage resolution. Fine.
First strike, deathtouch and trample.
He sank. His jaw dropped. He couldn't believe it. His 1st place prize winning deck lost.
I may have been beaten a half dozen times, but in this moment I was victorious and it infuriated him.
And that, my friends, is why I love my cows :)
2 years ago
Last Laugh for the token generation your right needs to be nontoken. As for the mana generation ability it literally just Neheb, the Eternal's ability with being able to make black or red mana not just red and yes you can fit alot of text in a card Wizards have done so before they've even done more than mine to the point that the text is tiny
2 years ago
Minotaur are a very tricky tribe to play with. They have a good amount of Lords. For just having merely 95 creatures to their tribe in total, they have six Lords. They are:
- Anaba Spirit Crafter
- Felhide Petrifier
- Kragma Warcaller
- Neheb, the Worthy
- Rageblood Shaman
- Sethron, Hurloon General
Now, while this may pale in comparison to the total number of Lords for, say, Vampires or Zombies, you need to consider the population density. Roughly 15.83% of the Minotaur base is tribal, which is quite powerful. Meanwhile, Zombies appear to have 16 true Lords, with 17 being if you include The Scarab God. Those being:
- Bladestitched Skaab
- Cemetery Reaper
- Death Baron
- Diregraf Captain
- Dreadhorde Twins
- Eternal Skylord
- Gleaming Overseer
- Hordewing Skaab
- Lord of the Accursed
- Lord of the Undead
- Narfi, Betrayer King
- Risen Executioner
- Tomb Tyrant
- Undead Warchief
- Vizier of the Scorpion
- Zombie Master
16 Zombies in total that act as true Lords (Being defined as a continual boon to all creatures of that type, not an activated ability for just one of them) out of 522 is only a population density of 0.03%.
So the question is, how do we maximize the potential for Minotaur, despite the lower physical number of Lords - even though they contain more percentage-wise?
Simple: We need to be able to create tokens, tutor or have graveyard effects. This makes Sethron, Hurloon General actually a very well-designed Commander, in terms of tribal support. He can be activated multiple times per turn, has a flexible activation cost, and gives you a token with each successful ETB. But the issue is that he doesn't get you the Lords in play, nor does he assist you once they are removed.
So, we need something that does that as well.
Mortha, Ancestral Shaman
Legendary Creature - Minotaur Shaman
Minotaur you control have haste.
You may cast Minotaur creature spells from your graveyard by paying life equal to their mana value in addition to paying their other costs.
, discard a card: Create a 2/3 red Minotaur Spirit creature token. If that card was a land, create two 2/3 red Minotaur Spirit creature tokens instead.
Exile four cards from your graveyard: Search your library for a Minotaur card and reveal it and put it into your hand. Shuffle your library.
Being a Haste Lord means your Minotaur are always ready to charge in for their attacks. Giving a means to cast from your graveyard is extremely important as you will want to ensure replayability. The token option means you will always have a base ready to fight with, and having the discard payment means you can pitch a Rageblood Shaman to make a 2/3, then pay + 3 life to get the Rageblood Shaman right back and swing with the 2/3, who is now a 3/4 with trample that very same turn. Alternatively, because Rakdos has limited ramp, you are rewarded with an extra 2/3 token if you pitch a land - which objectively sets you back in the game. Finally, you have a means to merely get the Minotaur you are looking for, by paying a very hefty price - exiling four cards from your library. However, her discard cost means you should always have the ability to do this. With instant / sorcery removal as well as combat trick spells, you should always have a full yard, ripe for exploitation.
When her engine is rolling and online, you can do the following:
- Exile 4 cards to tutor a Cow
- Pitch the Cow for to get a 2/3 token with Haste
- Cast the Cow for it's casting cost + life
Each ability feeds into the next ability, and they can be used multiple times per turn. You could actually exile 16 cards and tutor out 4 Lords if you really want to and have the ability to. Then on your end step dump your mana and discard since you're probably above 7. Now you have a bunch of 2/3 tokens. Next turn, bring the lords into play and swing.
It's not a very competitive deck, but Minotaur aren't a very competitive tribe. But what it does do is apply and maintain the pressure at all times, which is something that is important - especially in Rakdos.
2 years ago
Blackgate, I started playing Magic waaaaay back in 2005 but I stopped because I thought it was pretty dumb. Many, many years later I gave it a second shot when Magic: Origins released. I got hooked and began buying loose Walmart packs. They had a large amount of Tarkir, Zendikar, Ravnica and Theros. My very first mythic was Keranos, God of Storms followed quickly by an Iroas, God of Victory and Aurelia, the Warleader.
Being a natural-born Tim, I mashed them all together in an 83 card 5c deck and promptly lost every single game, ever.
Distraught I nearly gave up, but decided to try again. That's when I discovered the power of
- T R I B A L
- S Y N E R G Y
within the Madcow Clan. Minotaur became my absolute wrecking force where I would dominate casual play groups. It would later defeat a local championship winning Elfball deck.
Later still, in Ixalan, we saw our first on-card Minotaur Planeswalker, Angrath. I was enthralled and went out to buy the Angrath, Minotaur Pirate theme deck and, believe it or not, pulled an Angrath, the Flame-Chained in one of the booster packs that came with them.
Needless to say, my heart exploded.