Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Flashback—Sacrifice three creatures. (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
|Have (2)||CompleteWaste ,|
|Want (8)||Cactusman , Faceless119911 , 3xist3ntial , berk , Tinnuki , Thiagus , jacksonbenete , DragonKnightZero|
Printings View all
|Double Masters (2XM)||Uncommon|
|Mystery Booster (MYS1)||Uncommon|
|Duel Decks: Blessed vs. Cursed (DDQ)||Uncommon|
|Commander 2014 (C14)||Uncommon|
|Premium Deck Series: Graveborn (GRV)||Uncommon|
|Time Spiral (TSP)||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Dread Return occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.06%
Dread Return Discussion
1 day ago
So +1 for manaless dredge being ported to modern.
As I’m sure you know, the legacy version does okay because it’s a combo deck looking to recur Balustrade Spy with Dread Return, flipping over the whole deck and winning in a number of ways after that.
I feel that this deck is severely lacking without the combo, and also seems to want to fire on multiple angles, which all seem to conflict with each other.
You want to discard your hand to make hollow one cheap, and allow your dredgers to well, dredge. However this conflicts with your Memnite/Ornithopter plan. If your opener contains Phantasmagorian, a dredger and a couple of these guys, you’re going to be conflicted.
You also have a lot of dead cards.
Vengevine... Requires you to cast creatures... which I mean you have some 0 drop creatures, but you would need 2 in your opening hand and keep them there until you had a Vine in the yard. (Because you’re not drawing cards, you’re dredging, so you can’t ever get more).
Prized Amalgam is the same thing. The only creature that returns is the aforementioned Vengevine, which is just too specific of a scenario to rely on.
Hollow One doesn’t have enough support, all you have is Phantasmagorian, and again, you’d need the Hollow one in your opening hand.
The salvage Titan plan doesn’t make much sense to me either.
This honestly looks like 3 different archetypes smushed together: Dredge, artifacts matter and a little discard.
3 days ago
I feel like doing so would allow you to dump things into your Graveyard to pump up Colossus & then return them to play cheaply (pretty devastating with your numerous "Lord-Effect" zombies that give +1/+1. You could dump them to the Graveyard for counters, and then force-play them back out for an even higher boost.
Maybe give my Dredge deck a look if you want some other examples of Speed-Dredge options:
1 month ago
ok i think that you want more than that. go for Filth to add a hidden anthem keyword giving unblockable in some cases
This is if you add and control Necrotic Ooze. Cast Buried Alive and put Pili-Pala, Palladium Myr and Walking Ballista in your graveyard. With the combination of Pili-Pala and Palladium Myr abilities, you can generate infinite mana. Use the mana to activate Walking Ballista's ability, putting infinite counters on Necrotic Ooze. Remove the counters to deal damage to any target.
then you also have Archon of Valor's Reach provides 3 keywords, but if played, or reanimated provides a strong effect
Unburial Rites is just good if you have a massive threat in graveyard, buried for the creature and you can flash it back
Dread Return is even better cuz you get the 2 cards that combo and sac 3 to win
Brisela is good too, just depend on your leaning strat
Survival of the Fittest is crazy good as well.
1 month ago
Yeah I love Nooze combo so far. I originally started with Dread Return for Eternal Witness for Victimize to get back Lord of Extinction and Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. But I hated how much mana I needed to win out of graveyard and wanted something more efficient and less clunky-feeling. Nooze fits my style of play more.
Wall of Roots definitely has been an all-star even before I even realized it gives me a 0-open mana way to combo with Nooze, which made me love it even more lol. Yeah creatures that don't need to tap and create mana are pretty good IMO like Lotus Cobra.
Harvest Season use to not work for me as much as it does now. Now I find it fills out the curve pretty well and since the deck has so many many dorks I can actually produce a lot of mana early on. So sometimes I cast Hogaak, my draw spells might be like 4+ mana and this curves out nicely, but there are times I can't cast it for sure, it is usually one of the first things I would discard after discarding down to hand size after one of our draw spells. Although I'd say the reason it works out for me a bit more is because I have a lot of one drops. My list is sitting at 11 one drops so that might be a reason too.
Yeah Tymaret Calls the Dead I like. At least if I draw that it can basically cast Hogaak almost all by itself over a turn. Just helps me function a bit better from time to time.
Thanks for stopping by I always love commanders that are easy to recast if removed and your list made me realize Hogaak's potential after first seeing it on mtggoldfish's commander clash. :)
1 month ago
Yo, welcome back ColFrogfoot!
You have a lot of points, so I'll address them each one by one.
This deck mills its combo pieces all the time, and it usually isn't that big of a deal. As I mention in the description, we have ways to get our stuff back (Eternal Witness, Regrowth, Dread Return, Death + Life to name a few). Depending on your meta, you might want some more where those came from (especially stuff that can return noncreature cards like Golgari Findbroker). The only time when you're pretty much screwed is if your yard gets exiled along with the Riftsweeper. I've never been the best at assessing how much recursion I need, so take my amount with some grains of salt, but it seems to be working out for me. Also, since each meta is different, each person will have to do their own assessment there.
You're right that it's pretty unrealistic to get both the Greater Good and the Zombie Infestation out every game (just in half of them XD). All jokes aside, if you aren't completely shut down in the early game, then you have good chances that you'll be drawing most of your deck that game. If there's one thing that I'm confident about, it's the reliability of our card draw suite. Now about that hypothetical where you have both Greater Good and Zombie Infestation out, all you need to draw and discard is a Dread Return and a Bone Miser. Sac three zombies to flashback the Return, getting Bone Miser out, and discard 2 more lands to have enough to play the Phyrexian Altar.
The Necrotic Ooze approach is totally legit. I had a phase with this deck where I used it with Razaketh, the Foulblooded to fetch everything I needed. What I dislike about the ooze though, is that it forces you to use up multiple card slots for stuff that is only useful in that combo. You're eventually going to run into the scenario where you have a couple of dead cards in your hand because you don't have the ooze out.
I am curious about your Necrotic Ooze build though. I will admit that my particular build is not infallible, but it's also pretty consistent.
1 month ago
I see a strong value engine in the command zone, but far too much late-game in the ninety-nine. I would highly recommend cutting much of the seven drops, lest the deck be too slow betime on, thusly being trampled.
Furthermore, the deck needs more sacrifice outlets. With many death triggers comes a dire need to control when they go off, thence you should probably have at least seven.
Ideally, the gameplan is turn one or two ramp and cheap creature, then turn three Meren to return it to your hand.
Now, onto my suggestions.
Upon what I would ablate:
Korozda Guildmage is too slow. Four mana to sacrifice something is awful.
Overseer of the Damned is the same. Seven mana to kill something with a menial deathrattle.
terrastodon is eight mana. I have a deck with seventeen cards of ramp and it's still too much.
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder may be an exquisitely perfidious character within the lore, hereon he is rather slow. Egregious stats and only lives so long.
I've never quite understood the draw to Yavimaya Elder. Three mana, then requires extra work to find two basics to the hand, whereat even further toiling is required to draw the card. I never liked it, but I suppose.
Phyrexian Rager is too slow, no matter how mad it gets.
Deathsprout is cute, but four mana to remove something whiles providing no value by being a creature.
Sever the Bloodline is a four mana sorcery to kill one thing. If someone plays Kiki-Jiki or Mr. Gitaxias, whereupon their effects are immediate, this won't solve anything. Sure it flashbacks for seven mana, but the additional upside of the card isn't worth it in a singleton format.
Aid from the Cowl is a card I have tested withal. It's effect is slow, capricious, and ineffective. When it does work, it's five mana to maybe get something off of the top. I don't like it.
Thrashy is fine, but is four mana to kill something. Given the foison of similar effects the deck has, just remove it.
Okay, now unto thee I provide sacrifice outlets.
Altar of Dementia is literally perfect for a deck like this. Mill and death, all in one! Viscera Seer is a classic, Carrion Feeder can become massive, Goat Thing comes back by itself and offers caprine fodder, Yawgmoth, Thran Physician is oft the best card in my aristocrats deck though is expensive, and High Market or Phyrexian Tower are always fine.
Victimize is never lacking as it cheats out giants whilst providing sacrifice, Dread Return fills a very similar role, Eternal Witness is always great, Blood for Bones loops with the Witness, and Animate Dead is always great.
Now, cantrips: Grisly Salvage, Winding Way, Grapple with the Past, Ransack the Lab, and Once Upon a Time all filter through the deck, fill the graveyard, save for Once Upon a Time, and find lands or creatures. Furthermore, they are great with Meren, as creatures are to be disinterred.
For ramp, mana dorks are great. Birds of Paradise, Llanowar Elves, Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, and Elves of Deep Shadow offer fodder and acceleration. The best is probably Skull Prophet. Mill, fodder, and ramp in one.
Importantly, I add some more draw. Phyrexian Arena, Underworld Connections, Liliana's Standard Bearer, Erebos, Bleak-Hearted, Dark Prophecy, Moldervine Reclamation, and Rankle, Master of Pranks do this deed.
That shall be all from me. Good luck!
1 month ago
Sorry to everyone for the long absence I'll reply some of the comments you made :)
Lord0fHam Deadly Rollick is def a card I want to test but I haven't been able to play much. The advantage of the card is that it doesn't cost life, which is a valuable resource for the deck, however we only have the commander up for a very very small fraction of the time because he is sacrifice fodder for Dread Return.
Scott-Spain thank you for the catch! Added to the maybeboard.
BloodyScout I think it's very meta dependent (Koskun Falls), worth adding to the maybeboard for sure. I am not a fan of Head Games but I did add a discard section in the maybeboard and it fits perfectly the theme.
diogo1943 Zoetic Cavern acts as ramp if you couple it with Gemstone Caverns, Ancient Tomb or Peat Bog. For example suppose your opening hand has 5 swamps, Zoetic Cavern and Ancient Tomb. Turn 1: play swamp. Turn 2: play Ancient Tomb and pay 3 mana to play Zoetic Cavern as a morph creature. Turn 3: play a swamp and pay 2 mana to turn your Zoetic Cavern into a land. Turn 4: play a swamp, now you have enough mana for Belz :)
1 month ago
Ah, I have piloted a mono-black discard deck for quite the number of years. I have Chainer, Dementia Master at the helm myself, as he is a rather powerful card when everyone's hands are empty, thus he reigns unanswered. Therefrom, a great amount of methods may be used to win.
Tinybones is less of a finisher itself, more so a value engine. As such, I would recommend possessing a lower curve to take advantage of the card draw and more potent finishers within the deck to hent for victory. Also, having card draw outside of the commander would grant a better backup plan. A discard deck's goal is to empty each opponent's hand and win by going unthreatened. If no players have cards to discard, Tinybones cannot provide draw.
The changes I would make are more instants so you kill things once they resolve as opposed to waiting a full turn, swifter discard in the early game to make your commander more effective, stronger finishers for the sake of ending the game betime, and just cutting some cards.
So, first, there are some things I would remove.
- Murderous Compulsion may go with the discard theme, but it's conditional removal at sorcery-speed.
- Bad Deal is ironically a bad deal, as it is six mana for two cards gone.
- Assassin's Strike is just egregious. A six-mana sorcery to kill one thing and they discard but one card. Begone.
- Unnerve is fine but not great. Being a one time effect at four mana, I dislike it, though Xantcha is a great character in the art.
- Haunting Hymn is six mana, which is far too late for discard effects to be effective. You want discard early, as it makes it far more difficult for decks to catch their footing.
- I have the same reason for Tasigur's Cruelty.
- Cabal Conditioning has an identical reason.
- I have a shortlist for this category, being creatures without long-game value; Burglar Rat, Liliana's Reaver, and Banshee of the Dread Choir have discard stapled to them, but don't do much else whilst lacking much in terms of evasion for Larceny.
- Scythe Specter is slow and other cards just do its job better, and Herald of Anguish is slow and lacks fodder for its second ability.
- Necrogen Spellbomb is just crap. Two mana for one card from a single player's hand is awful. Don't play this.
- Awaken the Erstwhile neglects the game plan of having more cards than your opponents whilst lacking the option of going back. I'd just add a stronger finisher.
Alright. With that out of the way, I may suggest other cards.
Upon card draw, you have none outside of the Trinket Thief, Rankle, and Geth's Grimoire. I'd add any of Phyrexian Arena, Sign in Blood, Underworld Connections, and Dread Presence. Necropotence may seem as if it negates the strategy, but it is always worth it.
Lightning Greaves just seem great.
Now, for the finishers I have many. Do note that these are meant to be played when people haven't any cards in hand, hence lacking answers for these once on the field. Sheoldred, the Whispering One grants value from each player's bin whiles eating at their board. Abhorrent Overlord offers a swarm of flyers to end the game. Grave Titan is much the same. Archfiend of Despair goes well with Tinybones's second ability. Though I am not too fond of it, Archfiend of Spite offers much. Geth, Lord of the Vault hents the opponent's graveyards to swarm the board. Kokusho, the Evening Star is a massive threat that harms upon death. Kothophed allows for a quite a bit of card draw. Lord of the Void is always fun. Lastly, Gray Merchant of Asphodel does so much every time it hits the field.
Of course, I'd add more ramp and reanimation. Mind Stone, Arcane Signet, Charcoal Diamond, and Lake of the Dead are great for ramp. Animate Dead, Reanimate, and Dread Return are fine ways to get stuff from anyone's yard, save for the Return.
That shall be all from me. Do enjoy your day!