|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Fifth Dawn (5DN)||Rare|
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You may play nonland cards as though they had flash.
|Want (7)||JoeBert , FateDecider , scotteiro , TheWaxMann , Noximeus , Vaerenth , Like_a_boss|
Vedalken Orrery Discussion
1 day ago
Love the match-up. I run TYS Kess as well, and it can run super smooth. I have a few quality of life upgrades I can recommend, but ultimately everything has to come down to what works best in your local meta.
For starters, I would reduce the land count by about 3-5. Particularly, I would cut Nykthos and then a combo of islands and/or swamps. Devotion works well in mono to two color decks, but TYS relies on you pulling spells more than lands or permanents, so you won't get as much value out of it here. Instead, I'd recommend Temple of the False God . Most times, you can get it online fairly regularly and having one land that taps for 2 colorless is pretty dope. I'd also recommend either the Dimir Aqueduct or Izzet Boilerworks . Karoo lands may set you back just a bit, but you want as much value as you can get out of it. Ultimately, I'd say drop back to 34 lands, and add Temple and a Karoo land of your preference into that mix.
Next, you have a decent creature-base, but I would tweak and trim that a little bit as well. I'd sub out Hypersonic Dragon for Backdraft Hellkite and remove Crypt Ghast and Consecrated Sphinx . All of those are solid choices in most cases, but Ghast hits the same issue that Nykthos does. Hypersonic is decent for value, but opening your graveyard further with Backdraft so you're not limited to just 1 card per turn is huge on your storm turn. Lastly, Sphinx is an absolute monster of a card, but it might come out a little too late to really get you ahead. I'd add a Mystic Remora , but that's personal preference. Honestly, Sphinx could go either way depending on your meta.
As for Instants, I'd sub out Boomerang for Chain of Vapor , Counterflux for Flusterstorm , Countersquall for Negate , Dissipate for Swan Song , Reverberate for Increasing Vengeance , Rewind for Muddle the Mixture , and Undermine for Disallow . My reasoning for Chain is that most people won't sacrifice a land to copy it, and if you really need to save something, you can do it to yourself, sac a land, and then bounce someone else's permanent. Not to mention, it's a good way to keep something heavy off the board if they use a ritual to sneak a threat in early. As for the counterspells, some of them in there seem a little narrow compared to the ones you had (i.e. they target specific card types), but the most threatening things you'll deal with on your main storm turn are instants and cards with flash, so conditional counters work as good defense for off-turn threats. Also, Muddle the Mixture is a great tutor if you have a lot of 2 CMC cards, because it will fetch you any of them for just 3 mana. It also doubles as a counterspell sometimes. For Increasing Vengeance , I always recommend this over other red copy spells because it gets so much more value out of the graveyard, even more so if you cast it with Kess. Instead of having to pay the flashback, you play its normal CMC and get a double-copy for the price of one (not to mention its interaction with TYS).
Artifacts, I'd swap Manalith and Vedalken Orrery for Talisman of Dominance and Talisman of Creativity . Extra mana rocks will help you get around land destruction, and provide you extra mana acceleration earlier. They also don't require you to filter mana the same way the signets do, but in exchange they do hurt.
I'd see if you can fit a Narset, Parter of Veils in place of Liliana. She works wonders for digging purposes, and totally shuts down everyone else's draw.
Lastly, for sorceries, I'd remove Barter in Blood , Decree of Pain , Fabricate , and Mana Geyser . In their place, I'd put Anger of the Gods , Cabal Ritual , Entomb , and Desperate Ritual . Anger absolutely nukes graveyard value, and if you hit it off storm it only gets stronger. Cabal Ritual works as a much more efficient black ritual once you hit threshold, which you should hit fairly quickly if you're cantripping and looting often. Entomb is just as good as tutoring to hand with Kess because if you're looking for a spell, just pitch it and cast it without conditions.
Wow, that was a lot longer than I expected. For some final additions, I'd recommend Red Elemental Blast / Pyroblast , Narset's Reversal , Arcane Denial , and Fire Covenant . REB/Pyro works as a good defender on storm turn and can remove a pesky blue permanent that's complicating your life. Narset's Reversal is excellent at protecting your own spells from counters, providing you extra iterations of those spells if you have excess mana, and copying particularly useful spells from other players if you don't want to be effected by them. Arcane Denial is an excellent cheap counter that, though it draws you and an opponent cards, works as a decent political tool and can buy you an extra turn when you're storming off. Lastly, Fire Covenant is a great targeted wipe spell. If you put enough life in it, you can take out just about any number of creatures that are giving you headaches without losing your own in the process.
Overall, I see a lot of potential in the deck and think it could be super smooth with a few changes. The biggest enemy in EDH is inconsistency, so you have to fight that harder than most of your opponents. Also, life is a resource too. Starting at 40 makes it really easy to pay life into spells. I hope this almost dictionary of changes helps, and I look forward to seeing it progress!
2 days ago
Comes out of nowhere if you time it right with a
4 days ago
OmletMojo12 I have some nefarious plans on getting more creatures with return target creature(s) to owners' hands. I went to an edh Facebook page for ways to abuse god-eternal oketra, and they have me several ways. Standard way is to bring in weenies. I'm not a fan of weenies. I will have to rethink for the etb and tokens.
My goal is to get the cost low enough to repeat casting multiple times a turn. I might need a Vedalken Orrery for the flash aspect.
So, here are the planned maybe boards - since I'm going to ETB / casting creature triggers: Ancestral Statue - can actually become free to cast, since it's colorless, return target creature I control to my hand. Emancipation Angel - same as above, except Ivory Giant - taps all non-white creatures. Kor Skyfisher - return target creature I control . Panharmonicon - doubles etb triggers for my creatures - I don't really have artifact ETBs unless they're creatures. Reveillark - graveyard recursion for my weenies - ok. Stormfront Riders - return two creatures, whenever it or another creature is returned to my hand from play, adds at least two tokens into play when it enters the battlefield. Subjugator Angel - tap all creatures my opponents control Sunblast Angel - destroy all tapped creatures. Dust Elemental - flash, return three creatures I control to my hand. Eiganjo Free-Riders - return target creature I control at upkeep Enlightened Ascetic - destroy target enchantment or artifact War Priest of Thune - same as ascetic Thalia's Lancers - legendary creature tutor on a stick Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - mono-color ramp Possessed Portal - sacrifice a creature? okay. I have lots of tokens. Regal Caracal - more tokens on etb.
Now I need ideas on what to exchange for the above. First thoughts are the two odrics - they're combat focused, not etb or casting focused.
5 days ago
muman717 Yea I was just testing sower as ramp, it will come out (yes i know how Yarok works) I'll swap it for massacre wurm, i've always loved that card.
ksleazy I think Vivien is too easy to just beat down, i'd probably go for Vedalken Orrery before that. I do like leyline though and have had one in my folder since it was reprinted. Temur's already in there, one of the best cards in the deck for grinding and combos.
1 week ago
In case it wasn't clear, and since I can't edit:
Most of the time that is going to be you since enchantments are usually only able to be cast on your main phase. However; if you have Vedalken Orrery , Leyline of Anticipation , blink Null Chamber on an opponent's turn, or somehow else make it ETB on an opponent's turn you may not be the active player. In this case the active player, or the next player in turn that is involved in the decisions, makes their choice first and then each other involved player in turn order.
2 weeks ago
My two cents.
My version of this deck also includes the flash enablers like Leyline of Anticipation and Vedalken Orrery so I can keep up counter mana or recur spells with Tasigur's ability. I also have Primal Amulet Flip to double up on important X spells.
3 weeks ago
Have you heard of Whitemane Lion ? With Chulane it's a 2 mana repeatable instant speed growth spiral. On a similar note Stonecloaker does a similar thing however it also eats cards from graves at instant speed. If you're feeling spiky you can combine these cards with Aluren to draw your entire library and drop every land into play. It shouldn't be hard to win from there with Laboratory Maniac , Jace, Wielder of Mysteries , or even Altar of the Brood . Just remember Chulane's ability is mandatory so you'll have to remove him before you go for the win or you might draw yourself to death.
There are a few hate cards I'm surprised you haven't included like Gaddock Teeg , Remorseful Cleric , Containment Priest , Leonin Arbiter , Linvala, Keeper of Silence , Rest in Peace , Archon of Valor's Reach , and Aura Shards . The newer Ranger-Captain of Eos pulls his weight as well by grabbing dorks and accessory creatures like Giant Killer while having the ability to entirely shut down non-creature spells which is great for comboing out that turn or just preventing a board wipe from an opponent on their turn.
Simple tax effects as well give you lots of time to set up Chulane and start slamming creatures down for some great value. Cards like Aura of Silence , Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , Vryn Wingmare , Thorn of Amethyst , Suppression Field , Kataki, War's Wage , Energy Flux , etc.
I think flash is the greatest strength a creature based deck can have so I suggest trying out Vivien, Champion of the Wilds , Vedalken Orrery , Leyline of Anticipation , or Yeva, Nature's Herald to go alongside your Teferi.
Lastly you should include Eternal Witness as some grave recursion and you can abuse the body via bonce or Sun Titan.
1 month ago
I know this is basically necromancy target thread but just my two cents:
Oh boy this thread escalated into monkey feces throwing behavior quickly. Ease up boys.
Plain and simple; I disagree with you berryjon on the suggested bans and mostly agree with the sentiment put forward by .
A ban should only happen if a card too easily provides a massive advantage that often culminates with a victory. Paradox Engine supported win conditions very easily and thus was deserving of a ban.
Flash and untaps are quite powerful, but they do require a back-end that supports it. Prophet of Kruphix would be close to pointless in a deck without sufficient card draw or alternative ways to utilize that mana efficiently.
I would go so far as to say that tutors in general is more problematic to the Commander format than either of the cards you mentioned - save the Prophet, which is already banned. Tutors allow combo far more than they allow answers to combos, mostly on account of their sorcery speed.
I play Vedalken Orrery and Leyline of Anticipation in my Derevi, Empyrial Tactician . It is not a Stax deck but an evasive beater deck with voltron elements. My play group gasped every time I played the deck in the beginning, thinking it was Stax. When I played either of those two Flash-givers there would be strong statements on the need to remove them. However Flash-giving never surmounted to anything devastating within my deck. After a while my playgroup came to know the power level I set for the deck and don't take particular notice of it and only assess the Flash-givers as problematic as you would, say a Grave Titan . They are way more inclined to remove a Bident of Thassa or Coastal Piracy .
Also asking people for their proportional inclusion of enchantment and artifacts to their enchantment and artifact removal is kinda pointless, as most people design their decks to match with their playgroup.
In my playgroup, we generally play casual Commander and don't run with infinite combo assemblies as the norm. Some of us have the option for a secure and final end to match, but it is not what defines our decks. We match removal accordingly to how problematic the general power level is within the group.
Those playing in changing or complete unknown playgroups, should likely pack more removal than most of my group does.
It's all within context that deckbuilding critique matters.
It also sounds like the ones you play Commander with is way more competitive minded than mine.
Vedalken Orrery occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.06%