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(W/P may be paid for with either W or 2 life.)
Creatures can't attack you or a planeswalker you control unless their controller pays W/P for each of those creatures.
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|Have (15)||Caldazar , vishnarg , TheBl0b , Sparky41 , gildan_bladeborn , Supremespeed , ShishkyBob , MoJoMiXuP , switchkill65 , twospires , Nemesis , Gabeph , Xikitten123 , Venser_the_Sojoner , ecurps|
|Want (2)||Sasuin , sneferie|
Norn's Annex Discussion
7 hours ago
Extort is a great way to tackle multiple opponents. If I'm right, your main strategy is to use extort AND (s)tax cards to whittle down your opponents' strengths.
The biggest problem I see with your deck is that its average CMC is way too high in order for you to use extort effectively. You will need to make some cuts to make the deck more effective in that area. I would also really find some additional ways to add some ramp to your deck, to make it a little faster. Last but not least, I would lessen the deck's focus on both tax (paying extra mana for stuff) and stax (forcing sacrifices) while also trying to build an extort deck.
Here are my suggestions:
Before suggesting additions, let me first suggest some cuts:
- Abhorrent Overlord: too expensive, bad synergy with rest of the deck
- Ashen Rider; cool creature, nice spot removal, but too damn expensive. Especially when you need your mana each turn to use your extort abilities.
- Darien, King of Kjeldor: too expensive, bad synergy with rest of the deck
- Emeria Shepherd: nice recursion, but too expensive CMC
- razaketh, the foulblooded : this is one of the main reasons that currently makes this deck very ineffective. It's one of two reason (Eldrazi Monument being the other) that you are running so many token generators.
- Dictate of Erebos: this is really not the deck's focus, and not needed if you also use tax cards.
- Debtors' Knell: nice recursion but fucking expensive (CMC-wise); there are cheaper alternatives.
- Grave Betrayal: nice steal card but again, unreal-fucking expensive
- Martyr's Bond: too expensive, there are cheaper alternatives
- Eldrazi Monument: no reason why this should be in here
- Everflowing Chalice: you need ramp but this does not work too well unless you're playing a counter/proliferate deck.
- Godsend: spot removal is nice, you need it, but there are cheaper ways.
- Devout Invocation: nice finisher but this deck can do without such an expensive card.
- Increasing Devotion: you do not need tokens
- Rout: I would replace this with a more interesting wipe (more on that below).
Ok, now that my removal suggestions are out of the way, time for some addition suggestions.
Adding two more lands wouldn't hurt. I would also consider adding Solemn Simulacrum, Burnished Hart or even Weathered Wayfarer. If you feel like spending big, Land Tax might be nice. In terms of ramp artifacts, Mind Stone, Thought Vessel or Commander's Sphere would fit well here.
I'm missing Treasury Thrull. Not just a great extorter, but also nice for recursion purposes.
Norn's Annex is an even better version of Ghostly Prison in my opinion. Especially for you since giving up 4 life to cast this in turn 2-3 is not a problem at all; you're gaining oodles of life anyway. Authority of the Consuls is awesome in this deck too, and so cheap! Since you're so fond of recursion, how about Athreos, God of Passage. His ability synergizes so well with your deck! Finally, Karmic Justice is cheap to cast and is almost as good as Martyr's Bond. And not a (s)tax card perse, but Crawlspace stops any ambitious token player dead in its tracks against you.
In terms of draw, with the amount of life you can gain with this deck, it basically begs for a Necropotence (or maybe an Underworld Connections or Greed). For tutoring, I'd add something like Enlightened Tutor (as enchantments are important to your deck's success). Diabolic Tutor could also be added; even Vampiric Tutor if you feel like throwing money around.
For spot removal, I'd suggest Unmake. For wipes, I'd replace Rout with Fumigate (gain live while wiping; noice :)). Also, Toxic Deluge is simply made for lifegain decks like yours, and it will even get rid of indestructible creatures.
As an afterthought
Well, I hope I did not forget anything and that any of this helped. If not, feel free to curse my name haha. If it did help, I would ask in return if you could peruse a deck of mine and leave your comments and/or likes. Thanks and happy gaming!
20 hours ago
I suppose that is true as well. With Norn's Annex at least it's white mana or 2 life.
One more suggestion so I don't keep blowing up your comment section. Teferi's Protection. That can give you some protection until your next turn.
20 hours ago
20 hours ago
brandonsperry25 I have, but what tends to happen is when I get hit by an actual creature, it tends to be like by multiple 12/12 creatures. I've run it before and it's useful, but usually I can get rid of some with spot removal.
So like today, I boardwiped twice and the green player had 5 elves with haste cast on his next turn which he could keep repeating. I was thinking of Norn's Annex though.
1 day ago
TheWallinator74, thanks for the comment. I tried Crackling Doom. It was good, but the list is tight. It is nice in metas with eldrazi titans, but mine did not have much that way, so it was less good than the other control. I also like to keep power on the table if possible so I can use it myself. Crawlspace is pretty great, but it actually performed worse than more subtle things like Duelist's Heritage. Situationally, it can be great, such as when I have a Maze effect, but otherwise, it was less effective. Norn's Annex has been in and out of the deck since inception, it never pulls it's weight. I have addressed that every time it comes up, but essentially, spending life is something that people are prepared to do. It doesn't change table behavior that much. I have looked at Diaochan, Artful Beauty, and she can be used politically, but a stronger spot removal is usually what I want. I have not playtested her, so she could turn out to be awesome. Honestly, that is not really the type of politics this deck plays. Strangely, negotiation is typically not what you want to do. Avoid the perception of manipulation, stick to giving choices that will likely lead to table behavior that benefits you because it is your opponent's best option as well. Diaochan, Artful Beauty does not do this at all.
Mathas, Fiend Seeker is something that I have had extensive discussions about, here and all over the usual forums. I think he is counter to what this deck wants to do. I want to leave power on the table, using it to create my victory conditions. He wants to control the board by convincing people to use their control the way that you want it, keeping the board clear and safe for Mathas. I can get away with packing less offense and less wincons sheerly by affecting table behavior and leaving power on the battlefield. Mathas needs to carry more offense and wincons, because he eliminates threats from the battlefield. Different play styles, and I don't think that they mix.
Yarataj, I agree with Forcefield being great. I don't have one. I would test it if I did, but I am not sure it is even that much better than what I have. The pillow fort is crazy good at doing what it is intended, and is not obvious until it is played. Affecting table behavior is the name of the game, and you often don't need the most effective cards to make this happen, and sometimes subtle is better. As for Ankle Shanker and Boros Battleshaper, neither fits. Ankle Shanker is more of an expensive combat trick board wipe than anything, and I don't have room or need for that effect. Not enough creatures to take advantage of that, and adding deathtouch to my mostly deathtouch creatures adds nothing. Good in Alesha, less impressive in Queen Marchesa, almost no value added in this build. Boros Battleshaper is a combat trick, but it is very expensive, and is manipulative. This deck focuses on shaping decisions, not as much outright taking them away. There are a few cards that make decisions for other players, but those are basically game enders, like Wrath of Goad ( Disrupt Decorum ). I have avoided blatant manipulation, because I think it will be much less effective. Cards in play should give subtle added value through changing table behavior by encouraging decisions that forward my plan because they also benefit the one making the decision, and blatant manipulation should hit the table and immediately create a huge effect on the game, and then go away. Boros Battleshaper is not subtle, takes time to get full effect, and looks like it will create persistent resentment of my game state in other players. When other players start thinking "Well, this sucks." about my board state, I want it to be because the game has ended. Otherwise, I want them to be thinking, "I can deal with that later, and I might as well use it while I can." It should feel like Group Hug to attack other players and Stax to attack me. Players like to play with group hug, and hate to play with Stax. They usually adjust their play style and decisions accordingly.
Thanks for the comments. I will definitely continue to consider all suggestions, and may change my mind as I come to a better understanding, but these are my initial reactions.
As an insight into how I think, when considering cards, people usually ask themselves, "How will this affect the board state?" That is a good start, but I like a little different approach. I ask, "How will this change how people play? Will they make decisions that are in my favor when I play this? Will they feel a need to go against me when I play it? Do I care about that?" This makes certain cards much more powerful than they seem, because the board state is less important in multiplayer than how people choose to play. This is what 1v1 players complain about multiplayer games, and rant about "politics" and the negative effect on the game. I want to use that. Not the manipulation, not the negotiation, but the flow of the game and the decisions that people make about how they use their cards. This deck is about affecting that element of the game. I could choose better cards for affecting the board, but these cards are the best for changing decisions about how people should play their cards. Can it be played around? Yes. Does it get played around very often. Absolutely not. That is why it is so fun.
1 day ago
1 week ago
Norn's Annex would fit nicely too I think.