|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
Combos Browse all
((W/B) can be paid with either (White) or (Black).)
At the beginning of your upkeep, put target creature card in a graveyard into play under your control.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
|Have (14)||YossarianLives , Kimimaro , tangrams , fireborne1986 , angesoir , sonnet666 , Spinalripper , Shiromakuro , cklise , Mortiferus_Rosa , awalloftext , orzhov_is_relatively_okay819 , rockleemyhero , Dimarx|
|Want (2)||brokendwarf , TheAlmostHero|
Debtors' Knell Discussion
1 month ago
Thanks for the feedback! You've made several suggestions I agree with entirely, some I think are on point but need a few tweaks, and some I disagree with. I'll break it down card by card:
First, you're totally right about Army of the Damned, it's not as good in this deck as it is elsewhere. I've found it generally underwhelming every time I've drawn it, and I've never grabbed it off a tutor. Deploy to the Front is an excellent suggestion. Not only does it generally produce more value, but it helps me stabilize if I have a rough early game, something army is notoriously bad for. I'll put it on the acquireboard tonight. Ezuri's Predation and Horncaller's Chant seem a little low impact however. As for Divergent Transformations, that's a hilarious card I've never seen before. Chaos warping two things can be great, but I feel like my current draw, cheating, and removal effects are so much better that they outweigh the utility value of the card. I'll have to think about it more, however.
Spawning Grounds is card I saw when doing research for my deck and decided was too cute. It's painfully slow, as you mentioned, and I'd rather just be drawing cards in the lategame when I have the mana to cast whatever I want, since my cards almost always beat 5/5s.
I think you're underestimating the disgusting value I can get with Myojin of Seeing Winds. It draws me a card for EVERY PERMANENT I CONTROL. Even lands. It has yet to draw me less than 15 cards. The 3/3 sucks but I'd never play it for the body. Honestly the only reason I might drop it is I'd have a couple games where I couldn't use it because it'd deck me, but when my board's that developed it's a win-more situation anyway. While you're right that Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is easy to remove and gives advance warning, it also draws me 7 cards, which is major gas. That's why I generally play it on my turn rather than abuse the flash ability. The discard on my opponents is just icing on the cake if I can make it happen. I also consider discard a form of resource denial, and I'm concerned going all in on making my friends dump their hands will lose me said friends.
Now on to All Suns' Dawn. Ooh boy. I think you underestimate the ability of the card to recur things besides my creatures (bring back Conflux for maximum degeneracy points), but I also have yet to use it for the amazing value it theoretically provides. Being unable to grab colorless cards is a bigger downside in this deck than it should be in 5 colors, but it is what it is. I may be cutting it. Debtors' Knell is another card I've never seen before, and I think I need more time to evaluate it. Theoretically, the payoff is insane, but I fear it may suffer the same issues as Dawn currently does. It definitely merits testing.
Baneful Omen is great synergy, but I feel it's a bit slow and not all that impactful, even when I hit cards like Progenitus. It's also outclassed (in my opinion) by similar cards: I'd sooner run my Twilight Prophet for the added lifegain and draw. I'll have to consider more if effects like that are strong enough for the slots they'd occupy. Definitely an interesting suggestion.
You're right, Grozoth isn't a huge play, especially since I've been cutting Grozoth targets left and right. It may be out of the deck soon, despite the wonderful "That's a card?" reactions I get with it. However, consider it's a 9/9 blocker too, and that I can get Myojin of Life's Web with it to vomit cards from my hand right after the draw.
I LOVE Cruel Entertainment, but for some reason it never occurred to me to add it to this deck. It'll probably go in with the next edit. Great suggestion!
That's where I am right now, but you've given me a lot to think about, and I might develop new opinions about a lot of your points as I consider them. Definitely appreciate the feedback!
1 month ago
As a brief forward, do take this advice with a grain of salt. It is purely my own musings on what is already a beautiful deck. That being said...
I think that Army of the Damned is honestly pretty weak. In terms of token generation, 13 is rather small, and even though they are 2/2s, 26 damage isn't killing anyone. While they could be used as chump blockers, you can honestly just use a bigger threat. I think that in terms of rivaling an actual token generation strategy Deploy to the Front is a better choice. You get chump blockers in a quantity that can compete with Assemble the Legion in late game or even Krenko, Mob Boss for a turn. Alternatively, Ezuri's Predation is a solid choice in dealing with token generators and in the right circumstances, counts as a one sided board wipe. Yeah, it forces you to attack things you might not want to, but it also forces your opponents to block with key pieces that are sure to die, I am thinking commanders and creatures with tap effects. Whichever way you go, Horncaller's Chant is a great follow up, and has value even if you dont have tokens, though admitedly not ton. If 40 Pegasi aren't enough to win a game, I am sure that 80 will be. In your deck, pairing any token generation with Divergent Transformations, is bound to be strong, and unpredictable in a fun way.
After you have ramped into more mana than you know what to do with, Spawning Grounds might be a way to go. It is slow, but it allows for full utility of unused lands.
Looking at your card draw, I find Myojin of Seeing Winds an odd choice. Its pretty answerable even with the indestructible keyword. Biomantic Mastery is more value and on the same turn it is played (and a sweet flavor win with Momir Vig). Any kind of card draw plus Cabal Conditioning gets the Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur effect without everybody gunning for you. When Jin-Gitaxias is played, everybody is given an opportunity to focus it down, but Cabal Conditioning limits their answers to instants and if not answered, sets you up for at least one full turn of unanswered plays.
The direct and continuous recursion of Debtors' Knell is probably better than All Suns' Dawn, even though you wont be getting cast triggers off of your Eldrazi, cheating your bigger things into play is usually better than getting them in hand
In this deck a card like Baneful Omen does a lot of work. Yeah it gives away a ton of information, but it is a nuisance that affects all opponents that thrives on your high cmc cards.
Also, Grozoth can only ever draw you a maximum of 6 cards, and while all of those have value, it always tutors for the same stuff, perhaps leading to stale gameplay.
Even if this hasn't been helpful, I hope it was at least a little bit thought provoking
1 month ago
Hey Loonmoon18, very interesting take on a EDH sliver deck. You've went in a direction I would have never thought to explore. I do like your outside the box thinking, but I do have some concerns regarding the viability of some of your listed combos. For example, "2. Combo 1 + Dormant Sliver = draw all the cards you need to kick off any other combo" That's a hard combo to pull off because it requires 5 cards to make it work. Those are 5 separate targets that could be removed for almost any reason by an opponent. I would try to keep your key combos within the 3 to 4 card range just to keep things more viable. Speaking of viable, I have to give credit where credit is due - "Sliver Overlord(Find slivers)+(Venom Sliver or Toxin Sliver)+(Striking Sliver or Bonescythe Sliver)+Hunter Sliver = make certain creatures fight and kill their creatures" - that is a really cool combo. I would remove Sliver Overlord from that mentioning though, as he really isn't part of that combo, more of just another tutor. But between Venom, Striking, and Hunter Sliver you have an a form of targeted removal as opposed to merely a deterrent. Nice.
I see you're working with 33 creatures...that's pretty heavy on the creatures. As more slivers hit the battlefield they grow in power, but that also means that there is a tendency to overextend. A well timed Wrath of God effect would be a huge setback, potentially putting you out of the game permanently. The solution is that you need some recursion. Some good (budget) suggestions would be Aphetto Dredging, Debtors' Knell, Breath of Life, Miraculous Recovery, Nim Deathmantle, and Beacon of Unrest to name a few. Outside of that, your deck is a great build. +1 from me!
1 month ago
mrlucky131313 ooh that seems pretty fun. make sure you add Debtors' Knell and Grave Betrayal because with your theme theyll be all-stars. Good luck with your deck and be sure to post a decklist when u r finished :)
1 month ago
You definitely need a Sol Ring. Let me tell you:
I played a Snow-Covered Mountain, Sol Ring, and Lightning Greaves on turn one. Turn two, I played another Snow-Covered Mountain, Seething Song, and then Etali, Primal Storm; I proceeded to equip Etali with the Greaves, declared attacks, and dropped in a Sheoldred, Whispering One, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Debtors' Knell, and a Seize the Day.
Unfortunately, Seize the Day received a functional errata some time ago; so instead of "After this phase (meaning any phase that this card is played)", the card's Oracle text states, "After this Main Phase". So lame.
Check out my deck if you have the time, please. Comment, upvote, whatever...
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 2 | 2 COMMENTS | 120 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
1 month ago
Ok so I think I will stick with Orzhov but go full on life gain. Now that I think about it and did a lot more play through's I can't do much with trying to get creatures out and life-gaining at the same time. So maybe go a graveyard control/life gain? Does that work? Maybe base it around cards like Tainted Remedy, Polluted Bonds, and Debtors' Knell? Just trying to throw that out there. But if you think that it would go better just focusing on one would go better I will do my best and go for it! : ).
2 months ago
General Recommendations: Coat of Arms, Door of Destinies, Metallic Mimic, Vanquisher's Banner, Konda's Banner, Adaptive Automaton, Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle, Indulgent Aristocrat, Sanctum Seeker, Profane Procession, Bloodline Keeper Flip, Necropolis Regent, Secure the Wastes, Martial Coup, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Elspeth Tirel, Darien, King of Kjeldor, Heliod, God of the Sun, Ravos, Soultender, Vona, Butcher of Magan , Debtors' Knell, Merciless Eviction, Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter, Deathbringer Liege, Righteous War, Pillar of Origins, Cavern of Souls, Unclaimed Territory (meh), Intangible Virtue (meh), Kindred Boon (meh), Eldrazi Monument (meh).
Austere Command, because you can save your tokens.
Strionic Resonator mainly for your general, but it can work for anything that triggers.
I won't try to sell this to you that much, but Mirage Mirror or Mirror of the Forebears can have some trickery to it if you play it right. Can also feel bad if you don't have any creatures on the field.
2 months ago
These are my suggestions on what cards to cut. Feel free to agree or disagree:
Most artifacts in the deck are not worth tutoring/reproducing. In the case of Tezzeret, your mana rocks should be on the field to cast him, not the other way around. The ship's navigator is slow and is better replaced by high greater utility graveyard effects such as Regrowth. You will never win with Mechanized Production and there are both better copy effects out there and no need to use them in this deck. Norn's Annex, Contagion Engine and Contagion Clasp are the only reasonable target in the deck. Mana rocks are better off having more variants of the same thing then this card, Tangle Wire will screw you over, and it doesn't interact with Darksteel Reactor.
Debtors' Knell - This is a 7 costing card. The objective of the deck is to cheat out a biggy by T3,4,5. At this turn, you should either be hard casting the creature or refreshing your hand for another reanimate combo.Noxious Revival - EDH is a slower format and therefore rewards higher impact effects. This card gives you one card after one turn. In contrast, you could be running a more impactful card like Seasons Past. It can give you 10 cards for cost 5.Time Warp - Taking extra turns is cool, but it doesn't fit with the playstyle of your deck. You don't ramp hard enough to gain benefit from its effect and it has negative synergies with cards such as Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. At worst it is Explore and at best Atraxa, Praetors' Voice gets to proliferate twice.