Have you thought about using Shadowborn Apostle + Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker + Skullclamp combo?

You should check out my actual shadow born apostle deck via my user page

not sure if Skullclamp work as the power of the creature become 2 as it hit the grave i belive shirei will not trigger in that case i may be wrong tough

No, you are right. Usually, its a pretty good tradeoff -- especially if it is tokens generated by Pawn of Ulamog , or Myr Sire , or Genesis Chamber -- if it is in the deck at the time.

I have a shirei deck and here are a couple cards I play that I didn't see on your list or your maybe board. Victimize - for if and when your non one power creatures die, the cycle continues! Undercity Informer - one of my favorite win conditions, mono black mill yes please! Ritual of the Machine - take their commander! no regrets! Spawning Pit - I really like this sacrifice outlet not only is it free it makes you more dudes you can sac. Killing Wave - really nice board wipe you can hit it for 11 loose everything except shirei then get it all back. Bottle Gnomes - just really strong life gain. Lightning Coils - this is a win condition on its own plus a token producer. the struggle is real when you swing with 25 3/1s. Fume Spitter + Necroskitter - pretty self explanatory. you take all their stuff. Phyrexian Altar - you really need all the free sac outlets you can get plus this one makes you black mana to boot. Reprocess - more sacrifice more draw! Helm of Possession - did I tell you I like taking their stuff? Jar of Eyeballs - this is just nuts in the deck no questions asked. Null Profusion - crazy card draw that just accelerates the deck into overdrive. this one is more personal preference. Culling the Weak - very very strong, turn two sherei or lilliana after you play a one drop it speaks for it self.anyways if you want to see more of my deck I can throw it up in the next day or two but those were the cards I thought you needed to see the most.

Thanks seegreen!

At one point or another, all of these cards have been in and out of different builds of shirei. Victimize is probably something that I want to re-add, considering it interacts very well with the deck on top of being a strong card.

Undercity Informer is a great one too, but I think I will need to make some changes to the deck overall to make sure that I can actually mill people without hitting a shuffle effect, as Bitter Ordeal and Thoughtpicker Witch can only do so much. For that matter, I find that I never need Phyrexian Altar over Ashnod's Altar , but instead, I might add Altar of Dementia again to build a mill pathway into the deck. This of course works best after death cloud has destroyed all lands in play -- hopefully with Kormus Bell to make it extra powerful.

Ritual of the Machine and Helm of Possession would be great if I wanted to build more of a Mindslaver deck -- but in this deck, the goal is to kill their creatures, rather than steal them. I may consider re-adding both Lightning Coils and Jar of Eyeballs , though I usually get troled pretty good if my opponents save their removal for my untap phase. I would definitely need to see if they go with the theme of this particular deck, but it does seem like a good idea to get them back in, considering how powerful they can be.

Culling the Weak is something that I really should have in here, as well as Songs of the Damned -- which is great in most situations. However, Killing Wave is not good in most situations, as my opponents are equally likely to have one important creature that they are willing to pay for. Of course, it would help as a sac outlet and a priority focussing tool, but I have played with it for and have always regretted drawing it.

Null Profusion is great, and with the new additions for speed, it should find a comfortable home here. It fits the flavor of black very well, so I don't really mind the non-optional trigger on it (or Dark Prophecy )

I really like discussing how to make sheirei better. The engine is so unique and it really makes for interestting games, so it is my pleasure to give and receive feedback. your arguments for everything make sense and I find to be fair however, three cards in particular Helm of Possession , Lightning Coils , and Jar of Eyeballs I feel obligated to elaborate on their tech more. Helm of Possession is not only in the deck to steal and use their creatures it is also an opportunity to be used as removal. because of your plethora sacrifice outlets it is completely common for the card to read more like "pay 4 mana: destroy target creature". Lightning Coils is an interesting card, you were talking about getting trolled and having your stuff removed before it could trigger the thing I want to point out is that this card doesnt do anything on its own it but because of how strong the synergy is with sherei this usless card can mean gg for most of the table if it makes it once around. I say be proud of the fact that it gets murdered! that means people are afraid of the wrong thing and misguided fear is delicious. finally Jar of Eyeballs it getting destroyed is definitely a concern but you can play it two ways: the first its, ability is at instant speed so you can let the counters build and activate it in reaction to it being destroyed. The cool thing with this line of play is that there comes a point if your oppenents refuse to deal with it the card will read "look at your deck put a card into your hand then put your deck back in any order"! which is nuts to say the least. The second way is for raw value and activating it as often as possible for card advantage. what makes it a really strong draw effect in this regard is you are getting quality cards vs quantity. I hope that sheds more light on those cards and displaying their value correctly this time.

Also how does Citanul Flute work out for you? what do you tutor for? and why do you choose to play it over something like Diabolic Revelation ?

Yeah, those 3 are just so neat, I kindof feel obligated to put them in. You have successfully made the case for Helm of Possession -- stealing stuff is very useful all around, mindslaver or no.

Citanul Flute is usually a win more kind of card, as it costs a lot to get out, so it may end up getting the cut. A counterspell makes Diabolic Revelation a no go for me, and since I typically am looking for low cost sac outlets repeatedly, that makes the flute ideal. For example:

• 0 cost: Phyrexian Walker , Ornithopter

• 1 cost: Viscera Seer , Thoughtpicker Witch , Heap Doll , Deathgreeter

• 2 cost: Mesmeric Fiend , Myr Retriever , Blood Artist

It really depends, but in any case, it provides numerous answers, assuming it stays on the field for a turn or two. Granted, it can also be countered and destroyed, but if it is late game, and I am tutoring for one cost creatures, people generally don't understand the danger until it is too late.

It's cool you liked my input so much I really wanted to avoid the feeling of "you are bad if you don't play theses cards" Shirei is really a pet deck of mine and I really like to share card interactions I find. If I can get my hands on one of those flutes I will jam it in mine and give it a spin, I see potential and the fetch targets really are clutch.

Dude no problem, thanks-- there are so many different ways to go with shirei, it's hard to pick a theme and stick to it.

Citanul Flute is pretty great, but it definitely works the best in a stax like build, since it is only one creature per turn (unless you build combo shirei, that is)

I also have a Shirei deck that I have been working on, and I have a few suggestions for you.

Jet Medallion is a great way to ramp. It could probably replace Wayfarer's Bauble .
Lightning Greaves is great protection for Shirei, although shroud can sometimes get in the way of other equipment/enchantments.
Attrition is absolutely ridiculous with Shirei, and could likely replace Blood Seeker , which I'm not a huge fan of to be honest.
Meekstone is very good against most EDH decks - it shuts down most relevant attackers, with the exception of tokens. Maybe replace Bloodchief Ascension .
Bone Shredder is more awesome removal. It even kills itself on your upkeep if you don't pay the echo cost. I could see replacing Burnished Hart .

If you're looking for more ideas, feel free to check out my deck Why So Shirei-ous?. +1 for a cool deck and the very pretty description.

Jet Medallion is in, Bauble is out

Attrition is pretty nuts, so I'll probably add it again.

I was thinking blood seeker would be a good way to limit token overload and take advantage of Genesis Chamber , but it'd probably be better to have the removal.

Thanks!

Curious as to what[crucible of worlds and Karn Silver golem do in the deck? 32 lands is not enough even with 3 mana rocks, the only color I would ever feel comfortable with that low of a land count would be mono green. In playtesting your deck I consistently drew hands with only 1 land, 1 of 2 lands produced black, or then proceeded to miss my third land drop. Even worse when you draw a hand that has lake of the dead and cabal coffers as the only lands in it..... Bare minimum I'd say is 36, but 38 would probably be better. Cards I would cut to make room for lands

spine of ish sah extremely expensive vindicate, can abuse with claws of gix, but still 8 mana... My experience with the card has been that by the time I want to cast it, there are multiple problems I need to deal with. Maybe All Is Dust , Oblivion Stone (combos with myr retriever and junk diver), or Nevinyrral's Disk (same)

liliana vess replace with Demonic Tutor , Beseech the Queen , Vampiric Tutor . People love to do everything they can to remove planeswalkers from play, she ends up being a 5 cost sorcery speed vampiric tutor, unless you run her in addition to the others recommended.

death cloud seems pretty awful since it eats up your hand and already thin land base.

bitter ordeal is cool, but it seems fairly situational, and you are removing cards the opponent may not have even seen that game (it is nice to remove combo pieces though >:D). Having played sudden spoiling in a black weenie deck before, my experience has been very iffy with it. Amazing blowouts sometimes, and a completely dead card others.

Extraplanar lens So much wrong with this card, especially in this deck. As I have already said your mana base is very thin, and this card comes down and eats one of your swamps, further reducing your land base. A smart player will stripmine the swamp you target with the ability, effectively 2 for 1ing you, leaving you with a useless lens on the battlefield. Furthermore if someone simply destroys the lens you have been 2 for 1ed. Since you only run 20 basic swamps in the deck, the likelihood of having more than 4 or 5 swamps by turn 9 is pretty low plus you exile one to play the lens = Unfortunately Urborg also doesn't interact with the card because it just gives your other lands the swamp super type, and doesn't change their name to swamp or snow-covered swamp.

Mind slash and sadistic hypnotist are both great cards, but I think the sorcery speed hurts them a lot, and would consider Mesmeric Fiend in place of at least one of them. The fiend allows you to permanently thoughtseize with exile instead of discard once per each player's turn if you have an open sac outlet. You do this by abusing the stack like you would for oblivion ring or fiend hunter. If you aren't familiar with the interaction I can explain it in further detail!

I'd honestly cut Crucible of worlds as the interactions seem pretty narrow unless im missing something. If you were to run a full set of all the black searching fetchlands (onslaught/zendikar), Tectonic Edge , Wasteland , Ghost Quarter , and Buried Ruin , then it would probably be worth it. If you do take it out, then definitely remove Lake of the dead as it hardly seems worth sacrificing 2 lands, and tapping a land to produce essentially 1 extra mana... Also Phyrexia's Core doesn't seem great, use Miren, the Moaning Well and High Market which interact much better with your commander.

I would highly recommend you run the following package.Inkmoth Nexus Blinkmoth Nexus Spawning Pool andDust Bowl

All of the manlands listed interact great with your commander and all the sacrifice outlets in the deck. Animate them, sacrifice them for an effect, and Shirei will bring them back at the next end step. Dust Bowl makes this combo super nasty, its essentially like the strip mine, crucible of worlds combo. You can blow up a non basic land once per turn, at little to no cost to yourself! Vesuva and Thespian's Stage to copy coffers can also be a blowout.

More protection for your commander is always a good thing, Lightning Greaves , and Sword of Light and Shadow both offer protection from spot removal .L&S offering pro the two best removal colors, can recur your commander from the GY if he dies, AND gets shirei out of bolt range.

Sorry that got a little long winded, I really like the deck, and hope my feedback isn't construed as negative, the deck looks like a blast to play, and has inspired some tweaks of my own! +1 from me!

Well -- good suggestions for sure, and I do need to have a recurrable wrath for artifacts and enchantments, certainly, so will probably toy around with adding Disk back in. I don't run all is dust because:

• It is expensive.

• It kills shirei, my sac outlets, my land recursion, and my large utility creatures.

On land in this deck:

Well, unfortunately, you missed quite a bit here.

32 lands is absolutely fine in this deck, especially considering that I run Pilgrim's Eye , Liliana's Shade , Solemn Simulacrum , Extraplanar Lens , Lake of the Dead , Crypt Ghast , Expedition Map , and Mana Artifacts. However, the low land count and land thinning strategies require that you mulligan so as to get four lands in hand (if possible). I can see preferring a larger land count -- but once I am up to six mana on the field, I never really want to draw a land when I don't need it. This also makes finding swamps pretty easy. I don't want man lands, those are literally a waste of mana when the point is to get Kormus Bell onto the field. Death Cloud then becomes a potent and asymmetric land destruction spell that also limits answers and brings opponents closer to death.

Draw through Scarecrone , Mindless Automaton , Phyrexian Arena , and Infernal Tribute make this all possible.

As you may have noticed, the deck is tagged as "Land Destruction" -- and for good reason. A game winning card in this deck is Kormus Bell . In conjunction with Crucible of Worlds , Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and any of the numerous ways of removing creatures makes for persistent and brutal mass land destruction and a source of >10 1/1 creatures to use on every turn. Crucible of Worlds becomes invaluable when someone thinks they can end the game by taking out bell during my turn -- if I don't have artifact recursion, then I want to be able to get lands back somehow -- also. In the late game, I am bound to be sacrificing excess lands to Infernal Tribute -- at which point, getting them back each turn is important.

On Lens -- It sure is a juicy target... that's the point. This deck isn't the black deck that needs huge amounts of black mana to play effectively. Yesterday, I played this and suffered through 3 Bane of Progress ETBs, each of them killing my lens (which I recurred with Myr Retriever) -- in the end, with the land tutors and other sources of mana, it was worth it. The last thing that I want is for someone to Krosan Grip my Ashnod's Altar before they go for they "lol I totes got you" lens destruction. However, I see your point. A more vicious deck would have taken advantage of the momentary drop of mana supply and crushed me... and with the longevity of the lens, it could easily be replaced with Bubbling Muck as a good way to get Shirei onto the field in early game.

Buried Ruin is one I plainly forgot when editing yesterday -- thx

Mesmeric Fiend is a great little combo -- but meh, I just don't like it? It's great, and has been in and out many times. Maybe I will come to my senses and add it back.

On tutors -- There are plenty in here, and I prefer to go the way of the more narrowly counterable transmute tutors than I do the way of typical staple tutors, though I should probably add at least demonic tutor back because why not.

Liliana Vess is just so great! Sure, she will get removed, but I have blockers, and if she eats damage causing abilities, that's fine too! I really only need the one tutor off of her in most cases, but the marginal utility of "bait" in this case could see a change to a more traditional tutor (maybe demonic?)

Sword of Light and Shadow is a good addition that has also seen its way in and out of the deck over time -- my main concern is that it prevents using Fallen Ideal at times (not even permanently) -- so I will probably find a way to add it. At the moment -- Lashwrithe will probably get the axe in its favor.

Spine of Ish Sah synergies -- yep. costs a lot. Worth it? I think so. Having targetted vindicates that are recurrable is great for mono-black, and with Ashnod's Altar , it is very, very easy to find a way to do this on every turn. Claws of Gix, Infernal Tribute, and Phyrexia's Core are the main ways to abuse this -- with Phyrexia's Core being tutorable with Expedition Map

Karn, Silver Golem -- great blocker that recurs, fits the flavor -- allows artifact shenanigans -- can change artifacts into creatures either for me to recur them or for me to kill them on the other side of the board.

I really appreciate the feedback! Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Thanks for taking the time to respond and consider my suggestions! how does death cloud and kormus bell interact in an asymmetric fashion?

Forgot about infernal tribute, and phyrexia's core with the spine, nice interaction!!!

I see you changed some stuff around, let me know how consume the meek turns out, seems pretty sweet with shirei at instant speed!!!

BRUTALLY. Since Kormus Bell gives recurrable creatures and the deck is packed with recursion and life gain -- losing your hand and life is no big deal, and sacing creatures is also beneficial -- and when you sac lands to death cloud, they come back at end of turn, whereas other people's don't. #rekt

Consume the Meek is a "too good to not include" for me, and I was surprised that I had overlooked it. You never know when an instant speed token overrun is coming your way -- and most tribal decks have creatures with CMC < 3. Moreover, it will kill all of the weenies in this deck, but none of the big and hard to recur creatures.

I wish I had a Ghost Dad...

But seriously, cool deck! I get a bit bored with Commander games with rampant sweepers and removal, to the point where there aren't more than a couple critters on the board at any one time.

And Sudden Spoiling probably does hard work in here!

Make no mistake JakeHarlow -- this deck will sweep the board repeatedly, with Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed and Damnation or Consume the Meek , everything but shirei will eventually die, especially when Kormus Bell or Karn, Silver Golem make stuff into creatures.

Sudden Spoiling is a must! What happens when you are facing Sigarda, Host of Herons or some other creature that shuts down the deck! :)

I've always been a fan of using stuff like Night of Souls' Betrayal and Curse of Death's Hold to keep your creatures in a constant loop of dying and re-entering the battlefield every turn. With good ETB stuff, it can get really oppressive.

Hahaha, now that's pretty evil.

But alas, it's much more consistent with the numerous sac outlets, especially if I need to block, or if I need to tap my lands when they are creatures.

Maybe a copy of Heartless Summoning? Other than that I don't see much else great deck! +1

Thanks SilentChibi! I really want to build a gimmic Shirei filled with 2/2 etb ltb effects and include things like Heartless Summoning -- it's a great idea, but requires even more precise control to keep the triggers in the correct order.

So... I don't think that I will be including those -- though they are a great idea for both keeping tokens down and killing people -- would definitely need a Falkenrath Noble, a Butcher of Malakir, and a Mikaeus, the Unhallowed

I was excited by the Name. Then I opened it up and saw that it was not the original Ghost Dad Ghost Council of Orzhova or even the sequel Obzedat, Ghost Council both of which make for good EDH generals. Either way it is a good deck. even if the name was misleading.

haha I suppose this name would go better with those ghosts, but alas this is my shirei deck

Black has issues with artifact and enchantment removal.

Gate to Phyrexia, Unstable Obelisk, and Spine of Ish Sah.

Eldrazi Monument is a great card and it works well with shirei.

Nim Deathmantle keeps shirei around and works well with monument.