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$10 is insanely cheap for a commander deck. I would recommend trying to create a few lists of different commanders and get an actual idea of price - I think you'll find that even an ultra budget list will be closer to the $30 mark which significantly changes your model.
December 11, 2019 4:42 p.m.
So, I would recommend adding more card advantage - the amount here feels underwhelming. Also, I would try to swap in 2 maan ramp for the current 3 mana stuff. The talsimans are really good here if you're preventing damage ( Talisman of Indulgence , Talisman of Hierarchy , Talisman of Conviction ) as well as the signets ( Rakdos Signet , Boros Signet , Orzhov Signet ). You aslo have stuff like Fellwar Stone and the new Arcane Signet . You also have cards like Burnished Hart and Wayfarer's Bauble which help you straight up get lands.
I would also cut the Orzhov Basilica , you have lots of tapped lands and this will just slow you down more.
December 11, 2019 3:14 a.m.
If you're going to add Freed from the Real , there's also Pemmin's Aura which does the same thing, but also has the advantage of letting you pump your creature's defense into ridiculous amounts. And who cares if it has -100,000,000 power.
December 11, 2019 1:17 a.m.
As for card counts, even with this being a strong theme in the deck, I would say to try and limit the whole package to 14-16 cards. And the higher the count, the more draw you need to put in to offset this.
I'm guessing Oros, the Avenger is your commander?
December 10, 2019 7:23 p.m.
Having to actually classify it, not just point to examples of what is and isn't casual, my description would be something along the lines of:
"Building a deck without the intention of optimisation, given the available resources, and to pilot that deck in a way where optimum plays come in second to arbitrary decisions."
In some ways it's almost easier to define the competitive mindset and then say that casual isn't that :P
I think it's important not to atribute things like budget (since budget competitive is a thing) or directly tie casual to "fun levels". Fun is such a subjective thing - I can be enjoying myself even in a competitive game that I may be losing, even if my focus is the game. And how relaxed you are is also subjective and down to individual personalities.
December 10, 2019 6:50 p.m.
Lookign at oyur list, you're kind of lacking an actual win condition. Infinite mana alone doesn't do a huge amount. The closest Thing I could figure out would be Cyclonic Rift + Shaman of Forgotten Ways (assuming you had enough of a boardstate to get 8 power and he had haste).
I would recommend adding something like Blue Sun's Zenith which can be used to draw each of your opponents out.
December 10, 2019 12:25 a.m.
Like_a_boss: I hate to say it but even the most optimised version of Aurelia, the Warleader (which is Helm of the Host combo, not voltron) would be like a 6 at best. There have been a bunch of new cards in reed/white which definitely make the list more playable, but there's not way the list will be able to compete against the higher tier (especially combo) lists. Aurelia if just a bit too fragile unfortunately.
December 9, 2019 8:14 p.m.
What're your thoughts on Chandra, Acolyte of Flame ? She makes 2 tokens a turn and can recur most of your spells at least once for 3 mana.
December 8, 2019 11:51 p.m.
If you're actually wanting to build a deck around the extort mechanic, not just a life drain deck, then the key to the list will be lots of mana and lots of recurable/spammable spells. You'd probably be better off using Oloro, Ageless Ascetic as your commander to give you access to blue, which not only allows you to cantrip a heap but also untap lands/rocks to keep your extort loops going.
December 8, 2019 10:32 p.m. Edited.
Rather than having one ability with some sort of if then else set up, why not just break it into two abilities? Then you can have one ability which helps an opponent and puts counters on the enchantment/player/however you want to gear it and one ability which you can only use once the conidition has been met. It also means you can have the cost change between abilities/the reward get better once you've helped out.
December 8, 2019 10:11 p.m.
From what I have heard, it looks at all the cards that are in all the competitive decks and then does some sort of comparison of how many of your cards are in that pool, I'm guessing with some sort of weighting (i'm guessing it would also take into account the commander)? So even if you flag your list as competitive, unless the card is seen in a bunch of other competitive lists, then your list will suffer from a pure percentage point of view. That being said, there are many lists out there labelled as competitive which probably shouldn't be and in turn would affect the algorithms.
That's just waht I have heard kicking aound the traps. Though ultimately the competitive score is so arbitrary that you can just ignore it. Trying to base your deck building on it is not a good idea.
December 8, 2019 10:05 p.m.
Looking at the wording of the discard/damage trigger, it would porbably be more along the lines of:
Whenever you discard a card, Faelix, Draconic Warmage deals 3 damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures. Creatures dealt damage this way can not block this turn.
This is a subtle change but there are some benefits here. You get rid of the repetition of the phrase "up to" which makes it read easier. You also get the benefit of hitting more creatures if you have a red source damage amplification effect, i.e. "if a source would deal damage, it deals that plus 1" kind of thing.
As has been mentioned, you have a lot of abilities here - I know the temptation is to give custom cards lots of abilities (becasue abilities are cool), but the text should fit on the card. And if it's a dragon, it should have flying (as was mentioned).
December 4, 2019 8:16 p.m.
Generally poeple who call for other players to target person X's stuff the whole game are the kind of people who run little to no removal (because they just want to run a bunch of stuff to advance their board state only) but are reliant on others' removal. So what htey do is try to effectively bully other players into using removal to help their cause, rather than help the player who owns the removal.
Ironically, most of the poeple who play like this still end up building decks which are heavily reliant on others' removal to actually do anything (versus actually building a deck that doesn't need much removal to win - these can be done but are actually quite a bit more complicated to build/play).
If this is a typcial response from this player, it's not worth trying to dicuss it with him sorry. Generally the kind of poeple you're describing have some sort of superiority complex and you discussing it with him will just cause him to dig his heels in. As much as that sucks, I have seen it far too often. And look, I could be wrong here, but it comes down to you reading the situation. But it's not worth banging your head against a brick wall.
At the end of the day, the thing to foucs on is making sure that you're not at fault in your actions (not Magic related, but how you act). That would be the best piece of advice I can give you here.
December 4, 2019 8:02 p.m.
Gleeock: A smidgeon of chaos is ok, as long as the chaos deck is actually using it to its advantage. But chaos for chaos's sake can sod right off...
December 4, 2019 12:23 a.m.
It's been mentioned by a few poeple here but I would also like to touch on a few things:
While yes, the attitude of EDH is primarily about the social contract of "fun", you should generally go into a game with the inention of winning. How that manifests is up to you, but you actually do both yourself and your opponents a disservice if you don't. Games which have an arbitrary king maker (or chaos player in them) going in are generally some of the worst games you can play (in my and most players whom I've interacted with experience at least).
There is nothing wrong with removing peoples threats. Obviously people are more attached to their spells than their opponents spells and so can get tilted when you play removal on them. But that doesn't mean it's the wrong play.
Some people are terrible at threat analysis (not specifically saying you) and so when removal is flung in a ddirection they don't agree with, they get fired up (also refer back to point 2). It also comes down to accepting that if you play high threat targets, you need to accept that people will remove them.
There are a lot of players at the casual end of the spectrum who don't like running removal (because it takes up card spaces generally) and as such, don't like it when they have to play against removal. Again, this ties back into points 2 and 3.
And this is generally the big one - Magic is a great game, but it does tend to draw in a certain crowd. Look, we all have moments where we act in a certain way that when we look back on it, we feel a bit ashamed (and I'll be the first person to put my hand up here) and that can also apply to the people we play across from. Either this person was having a moment, or they're just a jerk, who knows. But YOUR actions are the only thing you can control. So regardless of the plays you made, if the motivation was to not be a jerk (and of course the actions reflected it), then don't take on board somebody's negative reactions to you. Seriously, that stuff will just weigh you down.
December 3, 2019 11:42 p.m.
The benefit that both of them have compared to Worldheart Phoenix is that you can just dump a bunch of ramp into the list and you have a built in mana sink win condition in your commander.
Any I'm pretty sure that my wife's Dragonsoul Knight list was played against a bunch of casual EDH lists and stomped on them (basically the same situation you're in).
As for good cards - I got a lot of value out of kicker cards. They do something by themselves but you can also get more value late game. Citanul Woodreaders and Dismantling Blow are both decent sources of card draw. You also have Blink of an Eye and Into the Roil for pseudo removal/draw. Agonizing Demise is decent creature removal.
December 1, 2019 11:33 p.m.
You need to add some low end ramp here. You've got an average CMC of ~2.9 but only 3 pieces of ramp in the deck. Not to mention 30 lands is too low given that most of your lands will enter tapped. 30 lands works well when you have a bunch of shocks, ABURs and fetches, but here you're juts going to screw yourself of mana early game far too often. And for a voltron deck, early game is your friend.
November 29, 2019 10:22 a.m.
Tzefick: I read through the original post, but I want to circle back to it later. And you will have to excuse the order in general, I was responding to this across the course of a day.
On artifact removal
There are a few points to unpack here. The first, and most importantly, is that removal is a big part of Magic, the Gathering and honestly, is what makes games (and deckbuilding) interesting. IF MtG was just about amassing board states and then slamming big creatures into other big creatures, the game would be much more boring (not to mention take much longer). But your argument here basically boils down to "artifacts are bad because they die to removal". I get that there are a bunch of good artifact removal cards, but that doesn't mean that we should stop leaning into artifacts because of it.
As for dealing with removal (especially mass removal) - there are still many options that white already has access to which does actually allow them to ramp. Wayfarer's Bauble , Burnished Hart , Solemn Simulacrum , Kor Cartographer , Knight of the White Orchid are all perfectly valid land ramp cards. Sure, the average CMC of these spells is higher than their green counterparts, however green is THE ramp colour, so it would be expecteded that there would be hihger costs/more contitions to be met for other colours to do a similar thing. And that's without even touching on cards like Sword of the Animist or Explorer's Scope which are both equipment and what white excels at.
In addition to this, while not ramping, white already has access to cards like Weathered Wayfarer , Land Tax , and Tithe which allow you to consistently hit your lands. While not as good as outright ramping, if you're hitting your lands each turn, you're genereally not doing too badly. And when combined with other ramp effects, by mid to late game you still end up with as much mana as most players.
Now onto the artifacts. Yes, there are a lot of good artifact removal effects which can slow players down. But I would also point out a few things here too.
Mana dorks are a very common form of ramp in commander. Most green decks will run a bunch of them and there are even strategies (elf ball) which almost solely relies on them. But just as artifacts can be hated on, white has some of THE best creature removal in the game. This includes both single target but also mass removal, which can severely hamper your opponents with regards to ramp. And unlike green (who is the main comparison point here), white doesn't rely on mana dorks, leaving you relatively unaffected from a mana standpoint.
In addition to this, white has a lot of ways of protecting your stuff from being destroyed, whether it's indestructible, hexproof, just an outright Teferi's Protection (which yes you did mention), or more importantly shutting down an opponent's removal source using Torpor Orb effects, of which white has many. Sure, this doesn't stop everything, but it can shut down a lot of (especially green) big bad ones. We are seeing a lot of these printed in new sets, to the point where WotC are really trying to drive home the point that "this is what white does".
Ok, now circling back (And I will do this more than once) and picking up on my previous paragraph. On the topic of land ramp - white is very good at shutting down this. between all of the MLD, Balance type effects and library shutdown effects like Aven Mindcensor , white hating on green's land ramp is to green hating on artifacts (i.e. white's main ramp source). Again I reiterate, this is what white does. It has been made abundantly clear, since we have time and time again seen printing of cards that equalise the board, to take away other players' advantages. So again I push the point that white is capable, however the issue here is that it's not the way you (or some other casule commander players) want it to be. But again, that's not white's shortfall.
On Graveyard Recursion
This topic follows on from the whole artifact removal thing. Yes, white is very strong in graveyard recursion. And just to touch on one of your points, even recently white got a bunch of graveyard recursion via cards like Daring Archaeologist and Restoration Specialist . Not repeatable sure, but still decent. And let's face it, any mono-white commander product is going to see Sun Titan reprinted. But back to the whole recusrion thing in general - while white is good at recursion, it's permanent based, not specifically land based. Yes, this overlaps (especially in the case of Sun Titan ) but here it's just a bit of nice value.
Land recursion is very much a green thing (I'm not even going to list the cards) and that makes sense. But for white, the recursion is generally symmetric if en masse. And again, this makes sense. White is good at wrecking stuff, so it's also good at bringing stuff back. But the point is that just because you wreck stuff and bring it back symmetrically doesn't mean that you can't exile a graveyard or two in the middle. Ok, but what's my concern with what you're recommending (both across the board but let's talk specifics)?
So, fundamentally I have no issues with the release of white cards which can return permanents from the graveyard to the battlefield, and fundamentally I have no issues with pairing these cards with any kind of fetchlands to ramp. As you mentioned, we have the new Sevinne's Reclamation and Brought Back alongside Sun Titan and Profound Journey .
Where I have issue in this case is not with the concept of having a cheaper spell that hits smaller stuff, but in this case your suggestion. Unforntunately, ther is a fine line between being able to be used early game for ramp purposes and just being broken. The card you proposed is similar in effect to Unearth , though it being able to hit any permanent for 2 mana (yes, even CMC 2 or less) is super good. That means that in legacy it can hit cards like Young Pyromancer , Snapcaster Mage (to get other spells even at sorcery, like itself for example), Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , Wasteland , etc. as well as potentially getting another permanent too. It just seems way too powerful. Sure, we could start tweaking the mana costs/effects but I think you would end up with effectively a functional reprint of Sevinne's Reclamation . And look, if that's what you're going for then that's fine. But that's the danger with working under the guise of returning permanents while focusing on lands.
As for the land sepcific recursion effect though, this just seems out of charater (and heavily moving into green's territory). Just because one card was printed, which again did a symmetric effect (almost seems good with Armageddon + Tormod's Crypt ...) does not mean that it's a shoo-in for more cards to be printed like that. Planar Birth was printed inthe same set as Catastrophe and it seems like those cards were designed to play well with each other. As for hitting land drops each turn, I have no issues with this (hell, I even mentioend it before) and to aid in the available "non-good fetch" fetches, you have Terramorphic Expanse , Evolving Wilds , Myriad Landscape , Grasslands , Flood Plain , Bant Panorama , Esper Panorama , Naya Panorama , Warped Landscape , Terminal Moraine and Thawing Glaciers . That's a pretty good collection of budget fetch effects that already exist. And between Scaretiller , Sun Titan , Sevinne's Reclamation and Crucible of Worlds (and in conjuction with other ramp) there are already options there.
Again, I will double down on my argument that if you look, these cards already exist and can be made to work together in a deck. Yes, Crucible of Worlds has ~$25 USD price tag (at the time of writing this) however that is not too exorbitant for a strong EDH card.
On Other Colours
I get that each colour has its strengths and weaknesses and that when you put all of them alongside each other there will always be a worst colour. But I don't think that's a bad thing. White is an incredibly powerful colour outside of commander, and as a second colour, white is still super good. But mono-white has to have a weakness. In this case, it's slow. Buat again, that's done for a reason - because white represents balance. White might be slow, but it will do a really good job of slowing you down with it. And again, I get that ther will be a group of players who don't want to play all of the stax cards for fear of getting other poeple's backs up. But what about the players who don't care about that? you've now just armed a bunch of people with ramp and draw with their existing supply of stax. Think of how much worse that will be.
Now onto red (since you touched on it) - yes, WotC have come up with a nice balance for red's card advantage (in that it matches red's ramp style) - momentary bursts of value. Rituals and exile - you use it or you lose it kind of effects, which makes sense (and which you pointed out). But it's all done within the bounds of the colour pie still. But everything about white screams that it's card advantage is making sure your opponents don't have cards.
While I believe that commander should be avaialble to anyone, there are some cold, hard facts: Some people can spend more than others, and, not everybody within a playgroup has the same budget.
The cards I listed before were budgetless and in most cases, the best of the best. And I understand that only a small portion of commander players actually own said cards. But there are always alternative cards at all budgets, they just may not be as desirable. But that's where my double standard comment came in, which is "if you want to play a colour that doens't have good ramp, but still want the best ramp then either pay the money to buy the good (read "expensive") stuff or deal with the fact that you can't/won't buy it." I don't think that's an unfair statement, and it's a slippery slope once you start pandering to it.
But again, if ther is a budget discrepency within a playgroup then I also don't think that it is WotC's responsiblity to fix it. This is something that the players have to own and is an entire discussion point in an of itself, so I will leave that there. But I think most players would agree with me on this.
On Other Players
Here's where we get to brass tacks (if we haven't already), I wouldn't agree with you on the comment that "a large portion of the commander community" thinks that mono-white needs fixing. Ther eare some poeple, sure. And those people might make a lot of noise about it, but that doesn't mean it's the majority of players. I know that most players who I interact with would agree wiht my viewpoint on it.
And don't get me wrong, I play both casual and competitive lists, I work full time and have funds available to afford nicer cards. A casual list for me sits in the $400-500 range. But before you discount my opinion becasue fo that, hear me out. I have looked at many, many, many lists on tapped out, ranging from <$100 to >$5000 and have learnt a lot over the years. Typically the things I notice is that the kinds of poeple who complain about a lack of XYZ have also employed a lot of bad deck-building practices (no, I'm not implying this on your lists). Really heavy mana curves, little ramp to begin with, high CMC ramp, lack of focused win conditions, all that good stuff. And I'm not saying that the decks are completely unplayable, but a lot of them are really clunky and slow. And I won't begrudge people for building those decks. But if your average CMC is 4.5 and then you're complaining that your deck is slow, that's becasue of the card choices you made. However bad deckbuilding is not WotC's fault.
So compared to those poeple, I will be a bit arrogant and say I undstand balance better than them, yes. But, and more importantly, so does WotC - because they seem to be printing more stax cards for white as sets come out, but not more ramp and card advantage which would fix the non-problem.
November 27, 2019 3:36 a.m.
DemonDragonJ: Tower of Fortunes is pretty bad. Personally I would stick with stuff like Arcane Encyclopedia . Also, Mind's Eye is pretty good (and the high initial cost is still less than that of Urza's Blueprints ).
November 27, 2019 12:01 a.m.
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