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1x Llanowar Elves *CMC:20*
it's all there in the formatting tips :P
October 1, 2020 9:42 a.m.
If you're cracking any sort of fetchland to get a basic (barring a few special ones), it's important to remember thath the fetchland is only going to get one land. So it turns into something that could tap for white OR green OR blue, but not all three (fetches that get duals are better for this reason).
The things I would be paying attention to are hard costs (i.e. things that have double or triple of one mana colour) in them and then using that to dictate how many lands that tap for multiple colours you will need.
For split cards, the casting cost of Dusk is 4, however the overall cost of the card is 9. This is an important distiction. there was a Modern (I think) deck that used Brain in a Jar to abuse split cards so that you could pick the one with the cheaper mana cost but cast the one with the more expensive cost under the old rulings. So the rulings were changes which effectively killed the deck, but makes split cards less ambigous.
October 1, 2020 4 a.m.
For the first point, Bant Panorama shouldn't be counted as a green source because it can't tap for green. While the implication is that it can fetch a Forest which can tap for green, the panorama itself can't produce that mana. There are lots of things shutting down deck searching and you might just not have any Forests in your deck. It makes no sense for it to count as a green source.
As for the split cost of a card, Dusk / Dawn displays as 9 becuase it costs 9. That's a WotC ruling, not T/O's decision on how to display the card.
From Dusk / Dawn's rulings on gatherer:
"While not on the stack, the characteristics of a split card are the combination of its two halves. For example, Destined / Lead is a green and black card, it is both an instant card and a sorcery card, and its converted mana cost is 6. This means that if an effect allows you to cast a card with converted mana cost 2 from your hand, you can’t cast Destined. This is a change from the previous rules for split cards."
October 1, 2020 3:20 a.m.
Quote by MaRo: "While the Secret Lair is the one chance to get the Walking Dead versions of these cards, we have the ability to print the Magic versions of these cards in future products. So, let’s say Negan becomes a popular Commander, we can print the Magic version (same card mechanically, but with a Magic name and art) in any number of future products. This is not a case of us being unable to make more of a popularly played card."
So WotC has said that they are willing to print the cards again (under a different name) so the concerns about this becoming an overpriced, scarce staple seem pretty unwarranted. The only people this could negatively impact are the people who want this specific version of the card, i.e. collectors.
And as for new players trying to get a hold of cards previously printed, the reserved list says hi. This has always been a barrier to entry and has a lot more staple-y cards on it.
October 1, 2020 2:41 a.m.
This thread was moved to a more appropriate forum (auto-generated comment)
October 1, 2020 2:04 a.m.
jethstriker: But right now, any player who thinks they are going to be good in (insert format here) can buy as many copies of these cards as they want. And if they end up being good in (insert format here), there will still be enough in circulation that I'm sure enough poeple who want (and are willing to pay for them) can get their hands on them. I'm sure companies like Channel Fireball and StarCityGames will be ordering a bunch of copies of the cards.
October 1, 2020 1:06 a.m.
DragonSliver9001: 24 hour window is not optimal, but I don't think is an issue.
As for your comments on TCC, yes, we are talking about the same person. I don't like him or his content. Didn't know I wasn't allowed to, according to you. And saying "it's ironic that I am incapable of handling something" is a really shitty attempt at an insult since you're basically calling me inflexible becuase I don't agree with you. Especially since I don't have a problem with the cards printed in Secret Lair.
Leave the personal attacks out of the comments mate.
October 1, 2020 12:51 a.m.
DragonSliver9001: Secret lair is print to order. So while there's only a 24hr period for ordering, I would still say they are more accessible than the comic-con prints. ESPECIALLY for people outside of North America.
As for TCC, from what I've seen of him, he's a pompous arse who can't handle other people challenging him on his opinions.
October 1, 2020 12:25 a.m.
SquirrelPenguin: If that's the case then I'm guessing none of the Secret Lair cards are affordable for you, nor are you buying all of the commander product each year. So the price point as an argument for you is moot.
I could understand people getting up in arms if these cards cost $500 for the set, however that just isn't the case. These are reasonably priced comapred to things like the commander decks, so I don't think anyone should be arguing that price is an issue.
September 30, 2020 11:06 p.m.
SquirrelPenguin: The set is estimated at $50 USD for the pack. So like ~$12 per card. I would call that accessible for the vast majority of players.
September 30, 2020 10:53 p.m.
I personally don't have a problem with these cards being done in secret lair. At least here the cards are print to order, so you're guaranteed to get a copy of them, no matter where you live. Sure, you have a 24hr window, but you don't have to worry about supply and demand.
I would also like to point out a hypocracy to a lot of players who are complaining about this; as an Australian, I see lots of SSDC promos or Magicfest promos come out and I know it will be almost impossible to get my hands on any of these cards, because WotC doesn't make most of these available for the Australian market. At least with the SL cards, while I might have to wait a while to receive them, I can actually get my hands on a copy. And while other promos are just that, promos, WotC has said that they will do a functional reprint of the SL cards if they are popular.
At the end of the day, this is a bit of a cash grab (I don't htink anybody is denying this) however this is a hell of a lot more accessible than most of their other cash grabs (which people like TCC praise and just one of the reasons I can't stand him). And really, who gives a crap if the cards are related to a TV show. Never watched TWD, doesn't stop me from getting the cards.
If you have a problem with the fact that "the walking dead has some scary parts in it", then you should actually look into what a bunch of magic cards represent. We talk about Dark Ritual being a good mana ramp card, but the artwork depicts sacrificing a person to channel some sort of blood magic. If you can look past that, then you can look past some special effects.
September 30, 2020 10:08 p.m.
Yeah, I'm going to lean towards delusional. I guess the important question to ask with the cards you're refering to is, why? Why would you run these cards in a rakdos deck over the slew of decent mana rocks available? What advantage do they bring?
I'm sure there are some decks which would want effects like Priest of Yawgmoth's, like Glissa, the Traitor (or certain builds for her). Similarly, a reanimator deck might like Bog Witch as a discard outlet. But here you're leveraging the utility the card provides, not treating the card first and foremost as a mana dork.
So in the case of "need more ramp" I would say it's a hard pass on all of these.
September 29, 2020 9:07 p.m.
We already have 'Silver Bullet' and a couple of different 'Stax' variants, which cover off toolbox. 'Elementals' makes sense - 'Dinosaurs' is a hub after all.
September 29, 2020 1:45 a.m.
Stone-Seeder Hierophant can be absolutely disgusting with landfall effects. I have seen her generate 20+ mana with Gaea's Cradle and fetch lands. You also have Voyaging Satyr who is a cheaper land untapper. Elvish Reclaimer is also a nice landfall triggerer.
September 29, 2020 1:11 a.m.
mccabej140: While I can understand that you're miffed that the thread got sidetracked, it does raise an important point here; it's important to get your basis correct.
You posted in a forum about commander where the premise was that white has a deficit on card draw compared to the other colours and that it was somehow a problem that needed fixing. The counter argument was that white's card draw is plenty fine considering the colour as a whole and the other things that it does.
Your premise was fixing a problem, not "hey, I came up with a cool new mechanic that white (and potentially others) could have" which was posted under the Custom Cards section of the forum, so the response is talking about whether there actually is a problem and if it does indeed need fixing. Context matters and we (as in all of us, myself included) can get caught up wasting a lot of time and energy trying to fix problems that don't actually exist.
If you're keen on the mechanic and think that it's got potential, I would recommend that you keep developing it. But some feedback on the design idea:
For a white ability, your tokens should have at least 1 power. I doesn't make sense for white, a martial colour to make tokens which have no teeth.
Exiling cards off the top of your library so you can play them is actually quite a red mechanic. The red design is very much a "use it or lose it" attitude which fits with the colour scheme.
If you do want to adapt this to white, I would have the ability only every exile 1 card, however it can create multiple tokens. When at least one of them dies/leaves the battlefield, then you can flip the exiled card. This way you're not giving white the ability to dig super deep but your are giving them token, which is a white thing.
Skullclamp exists and is a very strong card, but don't be afriad of its existence. There are lots of cards which are broken with clamp, that's the fault of clamp, not your card. It's like saying that Elspeth, Sun's Champion + Skullclamp become a card draw beast. Of course it does, but that's not becuase of Elspeth.
Figure out how the mechanic gets triggered. Are you going to tie it to ETBs, or mainly instants/sorceries? Are you going to have repeatable versions of it on a card?
Those would be my thoughts on the ability itself. I would also recommend creating a new thread over in the Custom Cards forum and don't talk about this "fixing white", just talk about the mechanic. I would also look into the ability not just being white, you might have white/blue and white/red cards which can do this too.
September 24, 2020 9:54 p.m.
mccabej140: Skipping standard is ok, but any cards for commander immediately go into the legacy/vintage card pool. Not to mention all of the highlander formats. Just look what happened with True-Name Nemesis.
MagicMarc: Most of the really fast combo decks are more than one colour (like 4 colour :P) In terms of mono-coloured combo, it's primarily blue decks that cna combo quickly and even then they rely heavily on artifacts.
I know this wasn't your argument but I see a lot of "well without artifacts, white would be completely useless" despite the fact that other than green decks (so like only 80% of decks), any mono colour deck will heavily rely on artifacts. But for some reason they have to be excluded when talking about white specifically, but no other colour.
September 23, 2020 7:36 p.m.
"stax is viable, and relies mostly on artifacts for most locks."
If you then look at where white wants to play:
slower than red: waiting unitl red runs out of steam
faster than green: white is designed to shut down green's ramp so that it can't play big things
faster than blue but slower than red: but tries to shut out blue's control elements which is often why you see a lot of token generation on land in white
on pace with black: black and white are just stright up designed to be in direct opposition, unlike the other three colours
And as a general rule, white focuses less on winning hte hand game and more on winning the boardstate game. That's why there are so many white midrange cards that are just pure value. It's part ofthe reason why Brightling is placed where it is on mana cost.
I think the big issue here and where there is going to be the biggest disconnect between my opinion and a bunch of others' opinions is because of EDH. White and to a lesser extent red both suffer when the goalposts are moved from a two player, 20 life format to a 4 player, 40 life format. I'm not going to deny that. As someone who has a mono-white Balan, Wandering Knight deck, I do know the struggles that mono-white can feel.
But the issue is that you can't just look at white in the context of one format. Any cards that you're creating here which would undoubtedly make white better in EDH would tip the scales too hard in white's favour in all of the other formats that had the cards available. Or the cards would be crap and unplayable to to the point where they wouldn't help the EDH decks anyway. And look, I've heard some thoughts about cards that scale with the number of opponents which would be the best fix if one were needed (as to have the least impact on the other formats) But I just don't think that they're required.
In addition to this, I don't think that the points I have made undermine any of my previous points. Yes, mono-white in EDH has some defecits due to the format change, however a lot of the stax effects hurt all opponents equally, so they still work pretty well.
But it's important for EDH-only (and especially casual EDH-only) players to keep all of this in mind - any new cards you add will affect other formats. So while EDH is definitely a popular format, it should not dictate how white works.
September 23, 2020 3:49 a.m. Edited.
Colonel_Kink: That's why white has such an array of stax and proactive hate.
Step 1) play a bunch of hate and lock your opponent out of the game
Step 2) casually beat them to death while all they can do is watch
It's almost as if effects like vigilance are commonplace in white to break parity with things like Static Orb. It's also why white has such an access to strong weenie cards and until its banning, cheap anthems like Crusade. Who cares if you can only untap one land a turn of all your stuff only costs one or two mana.
September 23, 2020 2:27 a.m.
DragonSliver9001: You're talking about something like a platform trolley right? I know that one is only rated to 150kg, I'm guessing you had bigger ones. But were you using these trolleys between the warehouse and the truck (in a loading bay) or were you using them between the truck and a house as well? Also, did you have any kind of manual handling training/assessment?
Don't get me wrong, as a 100kg, 6'2" person who could actually wield a shopping trolley with 4 jockey wheels I think it would make getting around a supermarket much easier. But the amount of numpties I see who can't even control a regular trolley makes me glad that most shopping trolleys only have 2 jockey wheels. And that's where the tradeoff is. A lot of designs for everyday folk have to take into account the people who are barely functional at the best of times. But for things like toolboxes or platform trolleys, there is an assumed level of "you're using something somewhat technical so we hope you're not a drop-kick".
September 23, 2020 12:51 a.m.
mccabej140: But that's the balance of the game. Each colour has its strengths and weaknesses, but that's what makes the colour pie a thing. Once you start trying to make it more fair, you actually start to undermine the requirement for the colour pie at all.
September 22, 2020 11:16 p.m.
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