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Time Stretch Discussion
BlueStar220 on Roon
4 weeks ago
SynergyBuild, I appreciate your comment. But I would have to disagree with some of the things you mentioned.
A: Wining turns 1-4 may be consistent in formats like modern, legacy, or vintage, but it ISN'T very consistent in commander. Heavy control decks specifically require a few turns to get their combos going. I have played with multiple tier one decks (including Teferi, Temporal Archmage), and I don't recall hardly ANY winning by turn 4. NOTE: I am not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's not very consistent even for a tier one deck. In a 100 singleton format, there will always be hiccups that will prevent a strategy from working all the time. At best I would say a good Zur the Enchanter deck is the closest thing to consistency as you can get early game.
B and C: I do have ways to lock my opponents decks by using Palinchron + Deadeye Navigator or the equivalent + Any ETB removal creature. (Epsecially with Acidic Slime, I can simply say that I am the only one that plays lands). I also have an infinite turn combo with Time Stretch + Deadeye Navigator or the equivalent + Archaeomancer. I can also somewhat lock down my opponents lands with Hokori, Dust Drinker + Seedborn Muse.
In regards to only having 18 removal cards, I went through the decks you linked, and most of them had under 20 removal cards. Only one had a few more than 20, but non of them were even close to 30+. (And that was with me being somewhat generous.)
And in regards to competitive decks, Roon qualifies as being a 2.5 Tier deck. (At least according to this list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/list-multiplayer-edh-generals-by-tier/).
I am not saying that this deck I made is the best version there is. If you look at the settings, I specifically say that it needs improvement. But the goal is to make this a competitive as possible. If you don't think it's competitive as of right now, do you have any suggestions as to what to put in/take out?
1 month ago
I usually have no problems hitting all 5 colors by turn 5, but thats a bit slow against some decks. Turn 4 is fairly frequent. The fastest I've had this deck go off was turn 3 Time Stretch comboing out before anyone else gets a turn.
Your suggestions are good ones. Jeskai Ascendancy is an all star card, and running Paradox Engine never really occurred to me. I was actually going to use Future Sight and Precognition Field, but I cut them really early on, before the deck really took shape. I should reconsider them and the magus.
On a side note, I'm considering running Enter the Infinite. It has its potential downsides, though.
2 months ago
Maybe a Sequestered Stash or two, to help find and recover your Helix?
2 months ago
Full disclosure, I don't have a Vorosh deck, but I've been theory crafting and looking into it. Hakim is one of my main decks. Please factor this accordingly.
In the case of Vorosh, I think people underestimate that color combination substantially. It has access to cards like Vanishing or Diplomatic Immunity allowing it to dodge and preserve counters, as well as counterspells and tutors. Black and blue have a ton of ways to make creatures unblockable, as well as ways to deal with threats. I would by no means call a Vorosh deck fast. But with ramp and a good set of answers I wouldn't call it tier 5 either. After it lands an attack once, it can drop any player within 2 turns via unblockable commander. And again, it's color combo lends itself well to biding its time and riding out threats. Not to mention a late Beacon of Tomorrows or Time Stretch is a guaranteed kill if cast at the right time.
Hakim is definitely one I personally use so pls no bully. But the ability to recur enchantments without having to expose yourself by attacking means you can make a resilient one man control platform. All the pieces it needs to come online and become a threat are recurrable. Enchants due to his ability, and equipment due to being able to be fetched from the graveyard by blue. Charisma, Psionic Gift, Neko-Te, Vanishing, Grafted Exoskeleton, Pemmin's Aura, Quietus Spike, Drake Umbra and other totems, Freed from the Real, Eldrazi Conscription, Illusionist's Bracers, Hermetic Study, Diplomatic Immunity, Sword of Kaldra, Corrupted Conscience, Blight Sickle, Sigil of Sleep, Oracle's Insight. The overlapping cards fulfilling the same role combined with the fact you can comfortably dump to graveyard(by overdrawing or other effects) means you can quickly dig for what you need. It's somewhat mana greedy but once it spools up its very hard to deal with. You've gotta get past counterspells, phasing out to dodge, recurring umbras, and hexproof. Usually multiple of those are online by like turn 7 or 8. And once it is online you can start trading mana 1 for 1 to get devastating effects. 1 blue mana can get you: destroy or exile target creature, put a poison counter on target player, "permanently" tap target creature, gain control of target creature, half target player's life, draw a card, etc. And if bumped up with helm of the gods or enchant stacking buffs all of this can be done while going full aggro on someone to proc annihilator or punch their face for damage. Finally, he can use recurring mass sacrifice effects to wear down enemies. Smokestack presents a somewhat mana inefficient option lategame to limit enemy's board state. For example, if you have a pemmin's aura, psionic gift, Diplomatic immunity combo online, you can run a smokestack at 3 charges indefinitely. Sacrifice the 3 Enchants during your upkeep, then pay 6 blue to rebuild them leaving the rest open for counterspells. Enemies are losing 3 permanents a turn while you keep enough mana open to counterspell or ping as needed. If brought online lategame after a board wipe your enemies will be completely unable to rebuild while you can continue building up your combo pieces.
In the case of both of these decks, they lend themselves to a decently strong voltron option. But they also both have access to some of the best ways to keep a creature alive through board wipes and preserve their bonuses they've been accruing.
With Vorosh, in theory a bit of biding your time combined with an Unblockable enchant(of which blue has tons) can build up to a time walk effect wherein you kill a player before they can even react. With Hakim, he turns into a controltron that is highly resistant to most answers against voltron decks, while also being able to rebuild extremely fast unless someone can punch through those multiple lines of defense AND wipe the graveyard out quickly.
Keep in mind, I HAVE NOT USED VOROSH, but I do play decks that operate in a similar manner. In theory Vorosh has a great deal of potential as a lategame sweeper with low time to kill aided by time walk effects.
I DO HAVE A HAKIM DECK AND AM THEREFORE BIASED. But hakim is(after some costly spool up) an absurdly efficient controltron commander. He can singlehandedly kill multiple players in a single turn via poison counters and Illusionist's bracers. Or permanently detain an entire board. And the fact all of these are instant speed means he can save his effects til end of turn on his enemy's turn leaving mana open to counterspell threats he can't deal with.
2 months ago
2 months ago
Oops, didn't see that you didn't want Goryo's - reading is hard. In that case, I think the best way to power out an early Narset is Amulet of Vigor with bouncelands - I can't think of anything else that can get her out before turn 4 with any reasonable consistency, and if we're waiting until turn 4 we might as well ramp into a T3 Elvish Piper, which, as you noted, is too slow.
At this point, the strongest things we can be doing are still the Omniscience combo - otherwise we're going off on turn 5 at best, which is already too slow. Eternal Dominion might be OK, Time Stretch might be OK (since Narset is sticky, it gives us more shots at real cards), Army of the Damned puts them on a 1-turn clock. You could drop big planeswalkers - Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker and Nicol Bolas, the Deceiver all seem strong. The problem is that, as a combo deck, we have to be threatening to kill our opponent on Turn 4, and we still don't have a way to do that besides the Omniscience combo.
3 months ago
Mill is as easy as killing if you play combos. But just like a 20+ dmg combo, it needs to go off. Doing dmg or milling cards only matter if it finishes the game.
As for Milling itself. It can never be done in small amount because then you could be giving them mana in the form of Delve, or cards in the form of Revive. Or let them cast a huge sorcery without paying its cost with Living Lore or Torrential Gearhulk or Spellweaver Helix. If that sorc is a Time Stretch then game over.
3 months ago
Cards are good Ghostly PrisonTemporal TrespassPart the WaterveilBeacon of TomorrowsExpropriateSwarm IntelligenceTime StretchTemporal MasteryBrainstormMystical TutorWorld at WarSeize the DayEnlightened TutorLong-Term PlansSavage BeatingTime WarpFury of the HordeWalk the AeonsDarksteel PlateSwiftfoot BootsAggravated Assault