|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Tenth Edition (10E)||Rare|
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Target player takes two extra turns after this one.
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Time Stretch Discussion
2 weeks ago
Sparrowfan101, thank you for your comments and suggestions. I've been playing commander for over 6 years now and played with this deck countless times against other extremely competitive decks such as Teferi, Temporal Archmage, Thrasios, Triton Hero, and Narset, Enlightened Master.
Surprisingly, this deck holds up very well, and will win by a large margin. Most competitive decks win by abusing their commander's ability early game. My deck prevents them from doing so.
In general, I would agree with you that the avg. CMC does need to be heavily considered and be on the low end of the scale. But for this deck, I would make an exception. A lot of the high CMC cards in this deck are for mid-late game control/wincons. And I never have any issues with that, since this deck likes to shut down early game strategies.
I'm not considering this deck to be a tier one deck, but I do think its pretty high up there. In regards to my win combos, they happen almost every game. I have enough draw/searches whereby it is very consistent in how it wins/functions. The win cons specifically are actually not that complicated. The infinite turn combo is, at minimum, a three card combo. And using Omniscience + Enter the Infinite is just a two card combo. Most of the time, I will draw/search for a Pact of Negation and other counterspells to prevent others from shutting down the combo. This pretty much always assures the win.
Once I can play the entire deck (using either of the combos), I can use the infinite turns to deal infinite damage by either hitting players with creatures every turn (if they have creatures I could always board wipe and refresh the board) or by dealing damage everyturn with one of the following cards:
Sorin Markov's +2
Build up Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker and keep using his -9
Flayer of the Hatebound + Sac Outlet + Marchesa
Also, you mentioned that using Jace would kill him within three turns. That would be true if I needed to bounce Archaeomancer EVERY turn. But since I am using Time Stretch, I don't need to bounce Archaeomancer every turn. So I can simply use Jace's -1 ability every OTHER turn, making sure to use his +2 ability between those turns.
Just based on my experience, and what this deck has been through, I'm still willing to call this a competitive deck.
1 month ago
Hey RoarMaster, I just tried simplfying the sections, but essentially on the heavy removal we don't need huge creature clears as the amount of time it actually stops us is rare.. Way more often spot removal to take out key pieces is much more effective. Its possible that we have Jodah, + Wubrg and need the board clear to win but its so rare its not worth losing slots over.
With Time Stretch we can never use it without Jodah, and we can't cheat it into play..
So we need to be in the exact situation we're we need 6 mana but only have wubrg.. Because if we have 6 or 7 mana then there's probably a way to find a combo.
The other downside is that we actually have to play towards casting it, so turn 3 Jodah into a turn 4 Time Stretch the issue with this is we can't be going all on on our mana turn 3 unless the board states of others are under control. Leaving no mana open in a cEDH game on turn 3 is not good..
So we won't be casting Time Stretch turn 4 almost ever, and if we make turn 6+ we should have 8 mana available by turn 6 Which is more than enough mana in our mana pool to tutor and combo.
We're not got going to tutor to Time Stretch because we'd tutor to a winning piece instead, so either it's in our opening hand or we top deck it and in our opening hand it won't have the impact we want unless we risk it; play Jodah, wait a turn, we need our opponents to not try and do. Anything on turn 3 or just remove Jodah and then play it turn 4 all to draw a card and gain 1 or 2 mana.
I should say that if you see the older versions section I have all 3 options in lesser Jodah brews which I've played with a bunch and it becomes obvious really quick that they have way less impact than they look like they have from the outside. The board wipes are a little better as lesser games have more creatures. But next time I go back I'll probably ad Merciless Eviction
Both options just come down to speed and needing Jodah to cast them.. Sorry if it was rambky I just woke up and am on my phone on a train.. I'll edit this on my laptop later.
1 month ago
One reasoning you said against Time stretch is because:
"If we have Jodah + (5) Then let's cast something to win, this is often a card with no impact, We either lose a card slot or play with no super big impact and then win like we were anyway".
You only have 3 'big impact' wincons listed T&N, Omni, and Enter Infinite that you would use Jodahs ability on, and yes, you would cast one of those instead if you had one in hand, but that can be said about any wincon in any deck, its better to just win than take extra turns. But thats not always possible, especially when you only have three of those things to be in hand. Easily turorable, yes, but that takes mana that would bite into your 5 colors, meaning you wouldnt be able to activate that turn. But Time stretch gives you 2 extra turns, one to turtor for whatever you need, and the other to activate Jodah and win. And even if you dont have a tutor in hand or a wincon, you get 2 more turns to draw into one.
As for the mass removal:
" we need Jodah and to cast but why would we wipe the board and kill Jodah - Dead cards that really don't help us ever"
Except that they do not kill Jodah. Thats why those cards are great is because they only kill your opponents creatures, leaving an empty field for Jodah to play around in. :)
1 month ago
You technically didn't even answer the question asked by the author, so let me pick up the slack:
I think that if you plan on building cheap, both decks have really good options, but Riku is just more flexible. He lets you build spell based or creature based, or a little of both and he isn't tribal dependant. Copying big spells like Time Stretch or a creature that wins you the game like Biovisionary or Tidespout Tyrant feel less infinite combo-y and really more synergistic.
But, if you do want something more linear, Inalla, Archmage Ritualist can be a great commander to build and can be really fun if built correctly.
The decision is ultimately yours, but I hope my feedback helps
1 month ago
Add at least one eldrazi one that shuffles your graveyard into your library. Also add some sweet one card bombs to the deck. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is so powerful. Use your counterspells to protect it for a turn and everyone's hands except yours is empty. Cut Magistrate's Scepter the only card it's good with is Paradox Engine if you want extra turns Expropriate and Time Stretch is really good at that. Cut Coiling Oracle. Its getting hard for cuts now because you have so many combo overlap that it's now down to cutting a combo and I'm looking for the least effective and efficient one to cut. Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix cut.
2 months ago
Also, I never seem to see Ugin's Nexus in Sai lists. It seems perfect to stall extra turn shenanigans while allowing you to sneak an extra turn in a pinch. I suppose that's local meta dependant, but still. My original paper Sai list ran it with mirrorworks to do a Time Stretch impression.
2 months ago
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Karmic Guide + any sac outlet. Actually any Kiki combo works. Sanguine Bond with Exquisite Blood works well. Laboratory Maniac after you deck yourself with Enter the Infinite. Also, Aetherflux Reservoir with Omniscience can usually knock out at least 1 player. Finally, why not run Eternal Witness to get back Time Stretch or any of your dead combo pieces?
3 months ago
I play both, and yeah, against animar, a well-timed Linvala, the Preserver, Tocatli Honor Guard, Torpor Orb, Hushwing Gryff, or any of my other creature hate normall at least Time Walks them, if not Time Stretches them. Getting a few to stick is enough to make them scoop. Otherwise, I haven't played agaisnt Sisay with my Animar, so I don't know too well about the outs.
Side note, what does this deck do to a resolved Humility?