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|Modern Masters 2017 Edition (MM3)||Mythic Rare|
|Modern Masters 2015 Edition (MM2)||Mythic Rare|
|Modern Masters (MMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Future Sight (FUT)||Rare|
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Creature — Lhurgoyf
Tarmogoyf's power is equal to the number of card types among cards in all graveyards and its toughness is equal to that number plus 1. (The card types are artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, phenomenon, plane, planeswalker, scheme, sorcery, tribal, and vanguard.)
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4 hours ago
Zurgo, Breaker of Bones
Vigilance, menace, haste
When Zurgo, Breaker of Bones enters the battlefield search you library for an equipment an exile it with a Horde counter on it.
Whenever Zurgo, Breaker of Bones attacks, you may pay , if you do, cast a card with a Horde counter on it and attach it to Zurgo.
Zurgo, Breaker of Bones gets +1/+1 for each equipment attached to him.
"I will grind your bones to dust, and use the powder to sow the seeds of my glorious victory." Zurgo, Breaker of Bones
90% of the cards created here are broken beyond all play-ability, yall need to calm down, to do so, recreate the cycle of 2 mana creatures with upside. For those that don't know this cycle includes, Tarmogoyf Dark Confidant Stoneforge Mystic Snapcaster Mage. I don't know whether Young Pyromancer or Harsh Mentor is the red choice. Make the card playable, but not busted.
1 day ago
i run a meren deck and i love it got a few idea's for ya i'll start with creatures Blood Artist why not get some hit points in when you sac or die along with Bontu the Glorified, Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest, Mycloth, Necroplasm helps controll, Nyx Weaver helps feed your grave yard which is your tool box, Rune-Scarred Demon, Tarmogoyf, Xathrid Demon, Brawn, Mortivore, Lord of Extinction, Grisly Salvage is good for feeding your graveyard, Putrefy, Dictate of Erebos, Deathreap Ritual, Small Pox, Pox,Westvale Abbey Flip and i really think that these last 2 are key Mesmeric Orb, Smokestack. just some thoughts my meren functions really well and is around where your looking to be in your meta give it a look over Gravedigger
5 days ago
The key principle here is that all of these spells "kill" though game rules, not per instructions on the card. In Tarmogoyf's case it has a characteristic-defining ability that's relevant to those game rules because the spell's card must be placed in the graveyard as the final step of its resolution, and only then are SBAs checked.
If however we were dealing with Devour in Shadow Goyf is destroyed during the resolution of the spell before it hits the yard, and so a 2/3 Goyf with no instants in the graveyard is a 2/3 when it dies, and you lose 3 life to Devour in Shadow instead of 4.
I doubt anyone was lying, or that a judge would get this one wrong. More likely it was a misunderstanding born of a very specific scenario. Without details it's hard to say.
The best rules we can point to for understanding why this works the way it does is 704.3 and 604.1/604.3, the first already cited by cdkime. They say:
604.3 Some static abilities are characteristic-defining abilities. A characteristic-defining ability conveys information about an object’s characteristics that would normally be found elsewhere on that object (such as in its mana cost, type line, or power/toughness box) or overrides information found elsewhere on that object. Characteristic-defining abilities function in all zones. They also function outside the game.
704.3 Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 116, “Timing and Priority”), the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event. If any state-based actions are performed as a result of a check, the check is repeated; otherwise all triggered abilities that are waiting to be put on the stack are put on the stack, then the check is repeated. Once no more state-based actions have been performed as the result of a check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, the appropriate player gets priority. This process also occurs during the cleanup step (see rule 514), except that if no state-based actions are performed as the result of the step’s first check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, then no player gets priority and the step ends.
The 604s explain that Goyf's ability is instantaneous in the way it defines its power and toughness. There is no delay between the spell resolving and the Goyf's stats updating, no point at which the spell has "resolved" and Goyfs stats do not reflect the cards currently in the graveyard.
704.3 describes when SBAs are checked. This is when the relevant game rules would move the Goyf to the graveyard if those conditions are met. By the time the SBAs check the Goyf's toughness is high enough that no SBAs need to be taken.
5 days ago
To break it down as I did for Lightning Bolt:
- The 3/4 Tarmogoyf gets hit with -4/-4. It is now a -1/0. But Grasp of Darkness has not finished resolving. Therefore, state-based actions are not checked, as no players can gain priority in the middle of the spell's resolving.
- As the rules language says, Grasp of Darkness goes to the graveyard prior to any player gaining priority. Tarmogoyf recognizes Grasp of Darkness is in the graveyard. Now it would be a 4/5, but is reduced by -4/-4.
- At the time a player gains priority and state-based actions are checked, Tarmogoyf is a 0/1, as Rhadamanthus. State-based actions do not care that the creature had negative toughness in the past--they look at the situation as it stands at the time state-based actions are checked.
- The 3/4 Tarmogoyf gets hit with -5/-5. It is now a -2/-1. But Dismember state-based actions have not checked yet.
- Dismember goes to the graveyard. Tarmogoyf is now a 4/5 being reduced by -5/-5.
- At the time state-based actions check, it is a -1/0, and therefore dies due to having 0 toughness.
Note, both these spells and Lightning Bolt check at the same time. None "kill goyf before it goes to the graveyard".
Hope that helps clear things up some.
5 days ago
5 days ago
Lightning Bolt, like all other instants and sorceries has the implied text "Then it's put into its owner's graveyard" at the end (R. 304.2 and R. 307.2 respectively).
State-based actions are checked whenever a player gains priority (R. 704.3).
Players do not gain priority in the middle of a spell. So, looking at Lightning Bolt:
- Lightning Bolt deals the three damage to Tarmogoyf - it now has three damage marked on it.
- Lightning Bolt goes to the graveyard. This is still part of the spell's resolution, so no player has gained priority.
- There is now an instant in the graveyard, so Tarmogoyf is a 3/4.
- Lightning Bolt is finished resolving, and now a player gains priority.
Notice how, before state-based actions are checked, Tarmogoyf became a 3/4 - thus it will not die when state-based actions are checked, as it does not have enough damage counters.
Second point, Lightning Bolt does not kill by lowering a creature's toughness - it kills by dealing damage. Both will send the creature to the graveyard, but by different state-based actions.
Lightning Bolt kills by R. 704.6g - the total damage marked is greater than toughness and the creature is destroyed.
Dismember kills by R. 704.5f - a creature having 0 or less toughness, which puts the creature into its owner's graveyard.
This is a super important distinction, which is why I am calling it out. Notice how 704.5f does not "destroy" the creature - cards like Dismember can be used to remove indestructible creatures, while cards like Lightning Bolt can not.
5 days ago
State based actions are checked right before each time a player gets priority. This means they aren't checked in the middle of a spell or ability resolving, but only after it's completely finished resolving.
Let me know if I didn't understand your question. I feel like I'm missing something.
5 days ago
When a creature dies due to having 0 or less thoughness, it's due to statebased actions, right.
A Lightning Bolt won't kill a 2/3 Tarmogoyf with no instants in grave, so why can a card like Dismember, which also kills by lowering a creature's thoughness, kill a 3/4 goyf, with no instants in grave?